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Thread: The Big X

  1. #21
    killercactus is offline SW App Champion Summer 2015, but still do what he says.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JYoder View Post
    Meaning, Alliances give key tools to the factions who now struggle against the top tier factions? Or will their always be some lopsided MUs, where the "MUD" is +10, or what have you.

    Speaking of new units to help others (such as Mugglug, who you listed above) are 2nd summoners done, or still in development? If done, why so delayed? There are 8 more coming, and honestly, I'd have rather seen them before Alliances. It's like they've been forgotten.
    I mean that I think most decks can compete with basically everyone, not just because of Alliances. That set doesn't just magically give every deck tools to sure up bad matchups... it gives everyone more options, brings 8 additional decks into the game (a couple of which shake the meta up pretty well), and tries to help out specific cards or decks that needed it where I thought we could do so thematically. I think tournament sideboards are a much better way to try and deal with specific matchup issues.

    As far as Mugglug goes, I don't think he needs any help really. He was just fine before Alliances competitvely. Yeah, he struggles with Oldin, Bolvi and Rallul. He'll probably struggle with Hogar, too. Alliances won't fix that. There are a couple of decks in there though that mess with the metagame in a sense that, if you bring a turtling CUE faction (or any turtle really) to a tournament and run into one of them, you aren't going to be happy. That at least is a soft discouragement in the tournament meta, which is where I think the biggest problem is anyway.

    For example, one of the most frustrating things I run into in Summoner Wars is when an opponent tucks their summoner into a corner behind one or more walls, especially after that summoner has been wounded. Because of the design of the board, it can be relatively easy to do that with a lot of decks that don't need their summoner out there, and just flat out kill assassination, forcing that deck to play a long game that it might not be able to play. There is at least one build that comes out of this set that kicks that strategy in the mouth. I love that. In fact, I anticipate a lot of people finding it and being like "Wow - that's obviously OP". And it is..... against those guys. Try it against Sneeks though and you get massacred. I think we need more stuff like that in this game, or else assassination will just never be viable.

    I'd love to get every matchup under "10 MUD", but I don't think that's gonna happen. What I'd rather strive for is to get every summoner's total MUD as close to 0 as I can, and try to fix broken cards and coasters where we can without going way out of our way. With 40+ summoners out there one day, there's gonna be tough matchups.

    The other second summoners aren't done yet, though they're in process. There was a master set after the first 8 summoners designed, so this isn't any different. It's just 8 new faction decks getting introduced rather than 6 existing ones. It gives a really cool boost to deckbuilding, and was also an opportunity to give something to all factions - even those whose second summoner didn't bring it up to par with some other decks. I'd venture to say that some of us seasoned players would've liked to have seen all 16 second summoners fleshed out first, but this is the perfect set for a newer player. No matter what they own, this set will enhance it, along with giving them 8 complete other decks. Also, I might be biased, but I happen to think a lot of the cards in this set are just plain cool and will get people excited. Knowing what I know, I'm VERY happy we did this set first.
    Last edited by killercactus; 08-06-2014 at 10:43 AM.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
    I think tournament sideboards are a much better way to try and deal with specific matchup issues.
    I'm not familiar with that format. I'll have to read up on it, though I assume it's only for RL, which does me no good, as I can't see myself attending a RL tournie.

    Quote Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
    For example, one of the most frustrating things I run into in Summoner Wars is when an opponent tucks their summoner into a corner behind one or more walls, especially after that summoner has been wounded. Because of the design of the board, it can be relatively easy to do that with a lot of decks...
    Crazy thought, but what if the board wrapped left and right after a certain trigger, such as so many cards in both players' magic and discard piles, like in SW doubles? It'd probably break something, but just thinking out loud... ignore me.

    Quote Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
    I'd love to get every matchup under "10 MUD", but I don't think that's gonna happen. What I'd rather strive for is to get every summoner's total MUD as close to 0 as I can
    Sure, makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
    and try to fix broken cards
    Whoa, whoa, whoa! Back up the truck! You mean this is possible, after hearing for years it'll never happen!? Don't mess with me!

    Quote Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
    With 40+ summoners out there one day...
    Whoa, again! I last heard SW was capping at 40, but 40+? Again, don't mess with me!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
    It gives a really cool boost to deckbuilding, and was also an opportunity to give something to all factions - even those whose second summoner didn't bring it up to par with some other decks.
    Given how good Sirian and Jexik were for Ret and Vlox, this seems like pretty clear codespeak for "Moyra makes Sera awesome guys".

    So thanks KC, I'm even MORE excited for Moyra now. She's up there with Sand Cloaks and Swamp Mercs for me now. AHhhh, I want to see the cards!

    On topic, I think KC makes a really good point about trying to get the sum of the matchups all equal to 0. People are forever writing off decks because they have a bad matchup against something (Muggles vs. Guild Dwarves) but with Nikky out, Oldin and Groggy have trouble and if Alliances introduces a few more bad MUs for them (my guess: Cave Filth), well if everyone has a couple bad MUs then we have a more fluid metagame and we can finally get to learning to manage your bad matchups being one of many skills needed to be a top player, rather than just picking decks without any.

    Of course, so many of you guys have your thinking dominated by iOS so much, there's nothing they can do to balance the game anyway, short of inventing time travel.

  4. #24
    killercactus is offline SW App Champion Summer 2015, but still do what he says.
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    When I say fix broken cards, I don't mean going back and changing cards. I mean trying to do it with new cards as we've always done. Rahlee was broken - now she's fixed. Raechel was close to broken at least. Hopefully now she's fixed.

    And the only thing I can confirm about how many decks will be in Summoner Wars at the end is that I don't know how many decks will be in Summoner Wars at the end. I'm pretty darn positive we'll get to 40, but I've heard Colby say directly to me "I believe Summoner Wars can go on indefinitely".

    And I don't want to burst your bubble too much UoS, but in my opinion, Sam did more for Sera than Moyra will. There's still some cool stuff that Sera gets from Moyra though, no doubt, but stuff like Sybil and Honor Guards and cool 2 AV commons are really cool for Sera.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sitnam90 View Post
    I can't say I agree with your assesment there Joseph. Controllers and Sorgwen can lead to a big one turn attack. Gwalatk is also a big tool here.
    Yes, on defense, but not on offense. Do you know how hard and inefficient that is? You will be spending 9 magic (5 for Sorgwen, 2 for controller, and 2 for not building either of them) to do 7 dice of damage. Because they are on offense, we can safely assume that I can summon new units and easily kill them since the controller has one life, and Sorgwen only 3. Like KC said, it's reactionary. Using it aggressively is a horrible trade off, and only should be used if you are using it to take out their last few units or something to pave the way for the rest of your units. Tacullu can't go on offense for his life. I have a very successful win rate against the BD, because being aggressive is near impossible with them.

    Sorgwen and Mind Witch is slightly better, in select MUs, if your opponent is using certain units. But it' still spending 9 magic on 2 units, one of which is a champion, for them to die next turn. Sorgwen combos are reactionary combos - play them on defense, where I can't kill them as easily.

    BD is still great, as they are still very good at control, and Magic Drain is always great. They excel against factions like CG and MV that are inherently aggressive. They just don't have any good options for offense. It's the only faction in the game where we always use mercenaries, since without a beefy champ (Rygos, usually, as he combos well with controllers) they can't be aggressive.
    Last edited by Joseph; 08-06-2014 at 12:50 PM.
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  6. #26
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    Turtle cross Beta was basically a sideboard tournament. We knew our match ups ahead of time and could tailor our decks accordingly.

    The truth is, we'll never know who the Big X is until everything is out on iOS. Then we'll have nice impartial data. But at this point I think everything is close enough to even that the label will probably lose meaning.
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  7. #27
    killercactus is offline SW App Champion Summer 2015, but still do what he says.
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    Quote Originally Posted by esper88 View Post
    Turtle cross Beta was basically a sideboard tournament. We knew our match ups ahead of time and could tailor our decks accordingly.

    The truth is, we'll never know who the Big X is until everything is out on iOS. Then we'll have nice impartial data. But at this point I think everything is close enough to even that the label will probably lose meaning.
    I basically agree. And yeah - sideboards could be used anywhere, not just real life. In iOS, its easy to just have infinite sideboards. You just build your deck after you know what summoner you're going to face.

    Real life sideboards have to be limited in size just for time constraints. Otherwise, with all the decks out there now, I wholly support building your deck knowing what summoner you're going to be facing.
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  8. #28
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    I also don't see Sam as rock star. However, I only own 1 copy of his deck, so I can't experiment with more than 6 Woeful Brothers or 5 Honor Guards in my deck.

    Maybe players that swear by him have increased their count of certain commons? *shrug*

  9. #29
    killercactus is offline SW App Champion Summer 2015, but still do what he says.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JYoder View Post
    I also don't see Sam as rock star. However, I only own 1 copy of his deck, so I can't experiment with more than 6 Woeful Brothers or 5 Honor Guards in my deck.

    Maybe players that swear by him have increased their count of certain commons? *shrug*
    I feel like I could play sam with any distribution of 2/2/2 commons and a few honor guards. I think the real trick is the champs - tossing in some cheap ones is much better for him IMO.

    I'm also a fan of Demon Hands there, which starts making me want to add in Rath and Naan'Nashi (who are good there anyway because they can quickly catch up to the rush). For instance, this deck is really fun and very strong IMO:

    Sam

    Rath
    NN
    Duggle

    Demon Hand x3
    Woeful Brother x6
    Warrior Angel x5
    Honor Guard x4

    Champs can all catch up to the push very well if you're deep in enemy territory. NN and Rath combo with Demon Hands, and DP and Abolish are also great for protecting them.
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  10. #30
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    Yeah, I've done cheap merc champs to make up for it, similar to that, but still, not seeing it. I'll continue to experiment.

    Though I've never tried Demon Hands with him. Interesting... I like it... though not seeing how Rath combos with them.

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