Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: strategy discussion: our findings so far

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    10

    Default strategy discussion: our findings so far

    Hello,
    A quick note here: this might be lengthy. I highly anticipated this game and preordered it. My nephew Matthew and I are big fans of the game series and had recently begun to check out table top gaming beyond magic:the gathering. We simply don't have the funds to keep up with that great but ever-changing game. I picked up Ascension: Chronicle of the Godslayer and we also played the walking dead board game a bit that another family member had purchased. Still love those games and we play them with others, but when it's he and I, we play this one. There is no discussion. We can't seem to get anyone else into it due to it seeming slower-paced and complex, but we're okay with that. we play any chance we get. I'd say we have gotten in a minimum of a dozen games so far, possibly over 15. I am 32 years old and my nephew is 13. I have a little more experience in games I suppose, but I don't toss him around. I try to help him get better. He has a very analytical and mathematical mind, always spouting out draw probabilities in MTG and combat die result odds very quickly in this game. He's a great kid and a worthy opponent. We generally try to help one another not make idiotic moves, like forgetting to claim a victory point card that you qualify for simply because of a complicated turn, or forgetting to add Comstock's 2 points to an attack. We chat about strategy when we aren't playing games.

    I've been frequently checking this board and the BGG forum for new posts, but they are very slow moving. I'd like to kickstart what I hope to be an ongoing and in-depth discussion about strategies and concepts in this particular game. I feel like it is a unique hybrid of area control, hand and resource management, and good old die rolling. And I like bioshock!

    So I'll just make some points that he and I have settled on so far, and hopefully some of you who play will contribute, debate, and bring up new ones.

    HERE GOES:

    Leaders.
    Jeremiah Fink : in our opinion, the most powerful of all the leaders. so much so that we have not been using him at all recently. money is extremely important in this game, and so are structures. combining the two into one leader card is huge. if he simply gave you structures for ONE less silver eagle, like Daisy does with units, he'd still be great, but he goes above and beyond. Structures don't have the portability of units, but they allow you to move units early in the game without losing control of a location you just took on the previous turn. They fortify whole territories: a couple of turrets and an alarm/stronghold on a territory? you aren't going to be messed with there and booker will simply shoot elizabeth an apologetic look and slowly back away from you. considering that there are victory point cards associated with 3 of each structure, not to mention the way these can help you retain elizabeth, reap timeline benefits from that, and claim victory point card for beating booker/controlling elizabeth, you just can't go wrong. game starts, beat adjacent territories, make money, pop down structures immediately. the randomness of world events and booker attacks might knock you off early on, but all leaders are susceptible to that anyway. And about money: the point can't be overstated - once those territory tokens are all gone, it gets scarce. of course you can trade in cards, but as things heat up you might need them and it just never comes in as fast as it does those first 2 rounds. Fink wins here, and he does it easily in our opinion. 6/5. i mean it.

    Esther Mailer: (sp? not looking a the cards right now.) She's ok, but we have found that the vote is not always the most important concern. There are many times where we will often let the opponent have a beneficial vote simply because we have bigger plans that aren't going to be affected by your extra action card and a free common unit. she isn't bad though, she does make every single one of your cards better. even vigors can be used in a vote. and you really DO want to be able to take that token when it matters, like in the case of a dispute where you want to be the attacker and not the defender so that you may move more units in to help, or maybe there is a victory point card you really need to claim. you want first crack at it. 3/5

    Henry? Saltonstall : this is actually a pretty big deal. the 4 movement limit in this game often feels restrictive, purposefully so i'm sure. it makes for really hard decisions that can either punish or greatly reward risk and ambition. can I take this territory token with just a leader and the turret next door, allowing me to move a handyman and two commons to this other one and make it less risky? he makes these decisions easier, and later in the game when you begin clasing with the opponent in an offensive way or want to prepare for their inevitable attempt on your turf, that extra unit movement can make a huge difference. I'm always happy to play saltonstall if i'm the founders. 4/5

    Zachary H. Comstock : at first I really underrated this ability. I hadn't used it since one of our first games, and i really thought it was a +1 to combat. generally speaking, if a combat is going to be decided by one point, you're going to lose. and you don't want failed combat in this game. no matter what leader you have, faction you are, whatever, it's a huge loss. it costs you momentum, upgrades, money spent replacing units, and movement because your surviving units have to respawn at a stronghold you control, which might be two territories away. then i used it last week (fastest game we have played, and i actually did stop a prompt mudhole in matthew this time.) plus 2. that actually makes a difference. most cards seem to have a combat value of 2, so this is a free card in any attacking combat that cannot be "bucking bronco-ed" out of the mix by your opponent. he removes the defender's advantage of 1 (since they win in a tie) and goes a step further, giving you one point beyond that. but the biggest advantage here is possibly that in the early turns of the games, when you are hopefully reaping territories as fast as possible, he really helps and saves you cards or embarrassing losses. since the highest territory tokens are only a 12, whereas combat against booker or an opponent often gets into the 20 point range, this 2 point addition has a better value, proportionally. comstock gets a 3.5/5.
    Last edited by tronflower; 12-24-2013 at 09:22 AM. Reason: forgot to give Saltonstall a #

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    10

    Default

    post volume was perfect for discussing the founder leaders, so i'll pick up tomorrow with our evaluation of the vox leaders. thanks to anyone reading, this is my first time posting this sort of thing anywhere. I hope some of you join in.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    435

    Default

    Well I don't have anything to add, as I don't own Siege of Columbia (yet), but this was a very nice strategy post, and the kind of thing I love to read if I get a game. Honestly, seeing this kind of discussion online makes me more excited if I do get the game. (This, Mice and Mystics, and City of Remnants are all things I might get for Christmas, along with a few *gasp* non-Plaid Hat games.) Reading this makes me hopeful about this one. Even if I can't contribute to the discussion, thanks for posting! If I get the game some day, I'll chime in.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    10

    Default

    i really will come back to this. I also picked up summoner wars and played it today for the first time. LOVE IT.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    10

    Default

    ...a few weeks later = tomorrow? i don't know.

    Haven't played any new games since the original post, been playing summoner wars the past few days when I can.

    Vox Populi leaders:

    Owen MacKenner - Owen snags you a silver eagle every time you have a combat. He doesn't help you actually win that combat or anything else, he's just there to add a bonus if you win it or a very small consolation prize if you did not. it is nice that he will boost your money making ability early in the game when you are heavy in the real estate market and staffing, but he won't outpace Fink or even Daisy in this regard. You are unlikely to enter more than 2 combat situations most rounds, if you can help it at least. This gets you an average extra 2 eagles per round. If you built 2 structures in one turn with Fink, you saved 4 eagles. if you recruit even 3 people on a single turn with Fitzroy, that's 3. The possible balance is that with MacKenner, you don't have to choose what to do with the extra resources gained. Structures, units, or even put them towards upgrades. But then, you could have done that with the money saved from using Fink or Fitzroy, in a roundabout way. I don't mean to be too down on poor Owen. It is actually fun to announce that you are grabbing that extra eagle every time you get into a skirmish on the way to the cafeteria, and it's downright comical to suddenly remember to activate your stimulus package after blowing a whole turn in a major way. OH, CAN'T FORGET MY COIN. THANKS FOR NUKING MY STUFF, BOOKER. Also, there is something to the fact that he keeps generating money even late into the game when all the tokens are gone and you really need your cards because you are trying to build a Waco compound with Elizabeth inside, or your opponent and you just can't come to a peaceable agreement for a single turn. He may not be the Christmas bonus that buys you a swimming pool, but he's at least a jelly-of-the-month club enrollment. Clark, that's the gift that keeps giving alllll year round. 2.5/5

    Cornelius Slate - Haven't used this one enough, so my review of him is tentative. Once per round, during your turn, you may discard 1 action card to upgrade an action card. In my heart, I know that at one point in time, I thought this said "once per phase, during your turn." I probably still only used it once per round. Either way, upgrades are huge, but the issue here is that he gives you an ability you ALMOST already have. Per deck, you have 16 cards that have a base trade in value of 2. you have 4 that are worth 3, 4 that are worth 1, and 5 vigors that are worth 0. Then you have the songbird/airship, where the bird is worth 6 eagles and the ship worth 4, but the ship wins majorly on voting and sort of gets a double-use. Point being, upgrades cost 3 gold, and the majority of your cards have a base value of 2 anyway, meaning that most of them were almost worth an upgrade already, but the almost is significant here. early in the game, you might not be clasing with the opponent too much. vigors aren't quite so huge in combat here, and since they have 0 influence or monetary value, this is a good place to dump them early game so that they aren't taking up a precious hand slot. You may opt to hang on to your favorite one for a good portion of the game until that perfect moment arrives, but you probably don't want a hand of 5 of them for several turns, preventing new card draw, deck cycling, and other actions. he upgrades your poor 2's and 1's, does nothing for your few threes. You still don't get to break the upgrade advantage limit, but with Slate, you should never be behind your opponent in upgrades. 3.5/5

    Meyer Herzog - I really don't think either of us have ever used Herzog, now that I begin to evaluate the card. This seems pretty good, but not great. His ability is not going to be helpful as often as most or any of the other cards, but still pretty helpful when it is actually activated. Turrets are optimal when attacking and adjacent space that may also have an alarm or even a stronghold, so they might not benefit from this ability too often unless your opponent wisely deems them the weakest structure to directly attack. you'd think alarms would be, but they can increase a combat by as many points as you can cram units onto a space and STILL have a turret aiming in from next door. not a space to be taken lightly. strongholds have a slight advantage due to the red die, but turrets are actually the most directly vulnerable and possibly the most helpful to destroy of the 3 structure types, making future conquest easier. don't get me wrong, I love turrets. they are my favorite thing to put down because the bonus is difficult to avoid and can apply to several different spaces, usually 3. they are just the weakest to attack DIRECTLY. the thing is, even for a turret, 1 point might not make the difference. and a herzog boosted alarm or stronghold is not going to benefit by an additional 1 point because of a turret nearby. This bonus is only ever going to be 1, and you will probably only have a small handful of combats per game that actually involve one of your turrets. A wise opponent is not going to go for them unless you have a weak unit presence and they feel very confident about crushing you. Structures are GREAT, but often it isn't for what they actually can do. it's more often for what they PREVENT your enemy from doing. If you're lucky, they might just forget about ol' Meyer over there in the corner. Just make sure that you don't as well. 2/5

    Daisy Fitzroy - Daisy lets you buy any units for one less silver eagle each. It really comes down to how she stacks up against Fink, the other major resource saving leader. On the one hand, 1 does not equal 2. You do, however, have far more units than you do structures. There are 12 structures per team in a two player game. There are 21 units per team in the same match-up. 10 of them begin on the table, 11 in the dugout. If you lose no units and recruit all the reinforcements, Daisy would save you 11 eagles per game. Let's say Fink builds all his structures. You'd save 24. Obviously Fink's potential savings are better, but let's look at the total cost doing both of those things. With Daisy, it'd cost 22 eagles to recruit each of your sidelined guys. With Fink, it would cost 15 to build the 10 structures that you don't begin the game with. Cost wise, you are more likely to maximize Fink's ability, and if you do, you are probably already winning. What Daisy does have working for her is the fact that units are a thing you can MOVE, and that you are more likely (hopefully) to be losing units than structures. This brings some balance to the 2. Also, there is the victory point card associated with having 16 units on the board. I have managed to NOT win this one with Daisy as my leader. If I recall correctly, it was only worth 1 victory point, whereas the structure related VPs are worth 1 each, for a potential 3 vp. But just like Daisy, Fink doesn't necessarily get all 3 of those cards. He still probably gets 2, however. Of course, with the randomness of the World Event deck, who knows how many of these cards you'll even see? Either way, the Vox seem to like having a lot of units and moving them around the board more rapidly and loosely than the Founders, so Daisy fits right in with this theme. She is likely the best Vox leader, in my opinion, although on some days Slate might win. 4/5

    I'll try to come back again and add my thoughts on board locations, world event cards, flow of the game, action cards, Booker and Liz, etc. Thanks to any reading my many, many words. I'd love to hear if you think I'm on to anything or simply full of it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    10

    Default

    ...a few weeks later = tomorrow? i don't know.

    Haven't played any new games since the original post, been playing summoner wars the past few days when I can.

    Vox Populi leaders:

    Owen MacKenner - Owen snags you a silver eagle every time you have a combat. He doesn't help you actually win that combat or anything else, he's just there to add a bonus if you win it or a very small consolation prize if you did not. it is nice that he will boost your money making ability early in the game when you are heavy in the real estate market and staffing, but he won't outpace Fink or even Daisy in this regard. You are unlikely to enter more than 2 combat situations most rounds, if you can help it at least. This gets you an average extra 2 eagles per round. If you built 2 structures in one turn with Fink, you saved 4 eagles. if you recruit even 3 people on a single turn with Fitzroy, that's 3. The possible balance is that with MacKenner, you don't have to choose what to do with the extra resources gained. Structures, units, or even put them towards upgrades. But then, you could have done that with the money saved from using Fink or Fitzroy, in a roundabout way. I don't mean to be too down on poor Owen. It is actually fun to announce that you are grabbing that extra eagle every time you get into a skirmish on the way to the cafeteria, and it's downright comical to suddenly remember to activate your stimulus package after blowing a whole turn in a major way. OH, CAN'T FORGET MY COIN. THANKS FOR NUKING MY STUFF, BOOKER. Also, there is something to the fact that he keeps generating money even late into the game when all the tokens are gone and you really need your cards because you are trying to build a Waco compound with Elizabeth inside, or your opponent and you just can't come to a peaceable agreement for a single turn. He may not be the Christmas bonus that buys you a swimming pool, but he's at least a jelly-of-the-month club enrollment. Clark, that's the gift that keeps giving alllll year round. 2.5/5

    Cornelius Slate - Haven't used this one enough, so my review of him is tentative. Once per round, during your turn, you may discard 1 action card to upgrade an action card. In my heart, I know that at one point in time, I thought this said "once per phase, during your turn." I probably still only used it once per round. Either way, upgrades are huge, but the issue here is that he gives you an ability you ALMOST already have. Per deck, you have 16 cards that have a base trade in value of 2. you have 4 that are worth 3, 4 that are worth 1, and 5 vigors that are worth 0. Then you have the songbird/airship, where the bird is worth 6 eagles and the ship worth 4, but the ship wins majorly on voting and sort of gets a double-use. Point being, upgrades cost 3 gold, and the majority of your cards have a base value of 2 anyway, meaning that most of them were almost worth an upgrade already, but the almost is significant here. early in the game, you might not be clasing with the opponent too much. vigors aren't quite so huge in combat here, and since they have 0 influence or monetary value, this is a good place to dump them early game so that they aren't taking up a precious hand slot. You may opt to hang on to your favorite one for a good portion of the game until that perfect moment arrives, but you probably don't want a hand of 5 of them for several turns, preventing new card draw, deck cycling, and other actions. he upgrades your poor 2's and 1's, does nothing for your few threes. You still don't get to break the upgrade advantage limit, but with Slate, you should never be behind your opponent in upgrades. 3.5/5

    Meyer Herzog - I really don't think either of us have ever used Herzog, now that I begin to evaluate the card. This seems pretty good, but not great. His ability is not going to be helpful as often as most or any of the other cards, but still pretty helpful when it is actually activated. Turrets are optimal when attacking and adjacent space that may also have an alarm or even a stronghold, so they might not benefit from this ability too often unless your opponent wisely deems them the weakest structure to directly attack. you'd think alarms would be, but they can increase a combat by as many points as you can cram units onto a space and STILL have a turret aiming in from next door. not a space to be taken lightly. strongholds have a slight advantage due to the red die, but turrets are actually the most directly vulnerable and possibly the most helpful to destroy of the 3 structure types, making future conquest easier. don't get me wrong, I love turrets. they are my favorite thing to put down because the bonus is difficult to avoid and can apply to several different spaces, usually 3. they are just the weakest to attack DIRECTLY. the thing is, even for a turret, 1 point might not make the difference. and a herzog boosted alarm or stronghold is not going to benefit by an additional 1 point because of a turret nearby. This bonus is only ever going to be 1, and you will probably only have a small handful of combats per game that actually involve one of your turrets. A wise opponent is not going to go for them unless you have a weak unit presence and they feel very confident about crushing you. Structures are GREAT, but often it isn't for what they actually can do. it's more often for what they PREVENT your enemy from doing. If you're lucky, they might just forget about ol' Meyer over there in the corner. Just make sure that you don't as well. 2/5

    Daisy Fitzroy - Daisy lets you buy any units for one less silver eagle each. It really comes down to how she stacks up against Fink, the other major resource saving leader. On the one hand, 1 does not equal 2. You do, however, have far more units than you do structures. There are 12 structures per team in a two player game. There are 21 units per team in the same match-up. 10 of them begin on the table, 11 in the dugout. If you lose no units and recruit all the reinforcements, Daisy would save you 11 eagles per game. Let's say Fink builds all his structures. You'd save 24. Obviously Fink's potential savings are better, but let's look at the total cost doing both of those things. With Daisy, it'd cost 22 eagles to recruit each of your sidelined guys. With Fink, it would cost 15 to build the 10 structures that you don't begin the game with. Cost wise, you are more likely to maximize Fink's ability, and if you do, you are probably already winning. What Daisy does have working for her is the fact that units are a thing you can MOVE, and that you are more likely (hopefully) to be losing units than structures. This brings some balance to the 2. Also, there is the victory point card associated with having 16 units on the board. I have managed to NOT win this one with Daisy as my leader. If I recall correctly, it was only worth 1 victory point, whereas the structure related VPs are worth 1 each, for a potential 3 vp. But just like Daisy, Fink doesn't necessarily get all 3 of those cards. He still probably gets 2, however. Of course, with the randomness of the World Event deck, who knows how many of these cards you'll even see? Either way, the Vox seem to like having a lot of units and moving them around the board more rapidly and loosely than the Founders, so Daisy fits right in with this theme. She is likely the best Vox leader, in my opinion, although on some days Slate might win. 4/5

    I'll try to come back again and add my thoughts on board locations, world event cards, flow of the game, action cards, Booker and Liz, etc. Thanks to any reading my many, many words. I'd love to hear if you think I'm on to anything or simply full of it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    10

    Default

    I have Siege of Columbia, but haven't had a chance to play it yet. Strategy discussions like this are very helpful. Thanks!

  8. #8

    Default

    I've been frequently checking this board and the BGG forum for new posts, but they are very slow moving. I'd like to kickstart what I hope to be an ongoing and in-depth discussion about strategies and concepts in this particular game. I feel like it is a unique hybrid of area control, hand and resource management, and good old die rolling. And I like bioshock!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •