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Thread: Sam vs. Oldin is an easy one

  1. #21
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    Jul 2012
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    Don't you know? A 50-50 Matchup for Oldin IS a bad match-up.

    Gah, I hate Oldin. On the plus side, I think he and Sneeks have a really even MU overall.
    Not all who wander are lost.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    I always thought Sneeks vs Oldin was well balanced, which may suprise many people dobto Gror. But CG wreck unsupported champs and Gror is not easy to support.

    I find Oldin vs Sunderved to be much the same way. I feel Sam, Sneeks, and Sunderved are very similar in style as they are common heavy with offensive summoners. I wouldnt say Oldin has a bad MU with them but they can perform

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    Fort Worth, TX
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    Probably shouldn't write this during work, but whatevs. Over the weekend my friend JR and I played a best of 3. Oldin stock versus Sam stock. To cut to the good stuff, GD won 2 out of 3, but all 3 games were close and very tough for the GD.

    Game 1 - Sam started, moving WA straight forward and Sam behind with HG to his right. Sam kept his formations tight and slowly marched 1 HG, 1 WB, 2 WAs down the field. Slowly Oldin's commons were picked off, but Sam over extended going for the kill on Oldin. He needed 4 hits, so I popped Transformation and figured he would be cornered for whatever misses I rolled. A well placed Defender kept me from chasing and my commons died to Gror. Oldin was at 4 wounds, but then I realized that I had built all of my WAs for WB because I thought I would get Bullock on the field. In the end Sam was surrounded by all 3 of Oldin's champs. He held his own for a bit, but I couldn't get around a well placed wall and Guardians to put the killing blow on Oldin. My opponent did a great job of keeping my magic count low, so that I couldn't bring out a single champion. After the game was finished, I realized that I should have pulled back and brought out a couple more commons before going for the kill. Then again, a dice roll the other way would have ended the game in Sam's favor.

    Game 2 - Sam started again, I used the same first move as previous game. Sam had a pitiful starting hand and didn't draw a common until turn 3. Oldin pushed the advantage early attempting to kill Sam's walls. Oldin in fact killed 2 of 3 and had Sam's last wall down to its last wound before the game ended. He sent champions at Sam one at a time with little common support and I was able to get Bullock on the board pretty early. Oldin's wall setup prevented Sam from getting to him without either using angels or walking all the way around. If you're looking at the board against Oldin, it was starter wall, 2nd wall connected at the corner of the starter to the left, 3rd wall beside the second wall to the left/bordering the board edge on the other side. Because of the focus on Sam's walls and not his commons, Oldin was decked and out of Magic, while I still had a single wall with 1 life and 15 cards, which were primarily commons. Oldin yielded.

    Game 3 - Oldin started, backed his closest units off and began an early kill of his own army. I don't think our units me until Sam turn 2. Sam had a great starting hand, 2 commons, a wall, Sybil, and Abolish. Best starting hand, but probably Sam's worst game. In an attempt to engage Oldin, I was unable to get my formations going. The game ended with Sam pushed into his own side with Gror bearing down on him. There was still some back and forth, but I'm not even sure Oldin took wounds that game.

    Some thoughts about the matches in no particular order. JR and I discussed each after it was over.
    -It is definitely a difficult MU for GD (as far as difficult matches for GD go) and if someone was not familiar with the Sam deck and very familiar with Oldin, it would not normally be won.
    -As stated by another poster, do not go for the walls, go for the commons.
    -Baldar is a stronger champion (depending on dice rolls of course) for this MU than Gror because all units are at the least swinging for 2 except for HG.
    -It is difficult to know when to press with Sam and when to pull back. I'm starting to lean towards pressing over pulling back is usually the way to go.
    -JR wants Ballistas.
    -Using Besiege the Walls on 1 wall is a waste, unless your hand is clogged.
    -Wall crowding is a really effective way to prevent Gror from getting behind your lines.


    Hopefully we'll be able to play more matches like this as I think it sharpened us both. Hope others find this beneficial. JR will probably post his thoughts later.
    I demo....a lot.

  4. #24
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    Sep 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shr1k13 View Post
    Probably shouldn't write this during work, but whatevs. Over the weekend my friend JR and I played a best of 3. Oldin stock versus Sam stock. To cut to the good stuff, GD won 2 out of 3, but all 3 games were close and very tough for the GD.

    Game 1 - Sam started, moving WA straight forward and Sam behind with HG to his right. Sam kept his formations tight and slowly marched 1 HG, 1 WB, 2 WAs down the field. Slowly Oldin's commons were picked off, but Sam over extended going for the kill on Oldin. He needed 4 hits, so I popped Transformation and figured he would be cornered for whatever misses I rolled. A well placed Defender kept me from chasing and my commons died to Gror. Oldin was at 4 wounds, but then I realized that I had built all of my WAs for WB because I thought I would get Bullock on the field. In the end Sam was surrounded by all 3 of Oldin's champs. He held his own for a bit, but I couldn't get around a well placed wall and Guardians to put the killing blow on Oldin. My opponent did a great job of keeping my magic count low, so that I couldn't bring out a single champion. After the game was finished, I realized that I should have pulled back and brought out a couple more commons before going for the kill. Then again, a dice roll the other way would have ended the game in Sam's favor.

    Game 2 - Sam started again, I used the same first move as previous game. Sam had a pitiful starting hand and didn't draw a common until turn 3. Oldin pushed the advantage early attempting to kill Sam's walls. Oldin in fact killed 2 of 3 and had Sam's last wall down to its last wound before the game ended. He sent champions at Sam one at a time with little common support and I was able to get Bullock on the board pretty early. Oldin's wall setup prevented Sam from getting to him without either using angels or walking all the way around. If you're looking at the board against Oldin, it was starter wall, 2nd wall connected at the corner of the starter to the left, 3rd wall beside the second wall to the left/bordering the board edge on the other side. Because of the focus on Sam's walls and not his commons, Oldin was decked and out of Magic, while I still had a single wall with 1 life and 15 cards, which were primarily commons. Oldin yielded.

    Game 3 - Oldin started, backed his closest units off and began an early kill of his own army. I don't think our units me until Sam turn 2. Sam had a great starting hand, 2 commons, a wall, Sybil, and Abolish. Best starting hand, but probably Sam's worst game. In an attempt to engage Oldin, I was unable to get my formations going. The game ended with Sam pushed into his own side with Gror bearing down on him. There was still some back and forth, but I'm not even sure Oldin took wounds that game.

    Some thoughts about the matches in no particular order. JR and I discussed each after it was over.
    -It is definitely a difficult MU for GD (as far as difficult matches for GD go) and if someone was not familiar with the Sam deck and very familiar with Oldin, it would not normally be won.
    -As stated by another poster, do not go for the walls, go for the commons.
    -Baldar is a stronger champion (depending on dice rolls of course) for this MU than Gror because all units are at the least swinging for 2 except for HG.
    -It is difficult to know when to press with Sam and when to pull back. I'm starting to lean towards pressing over pulling back is usually the way to go.
    -JR wants Ballistas.
    -Using Besiege the Walls on 1 wall is a waste, unless your hand is clogged.
    -Wall crowding is a really effective way to prevent Gror from getting behind your lines.


    Hopefully we'll be able to play more matches like this as I think it sharpened us both. Hope others find this beneficial. JR will probably post his thoughts later.
    JR here. My win% with GD is about 70, and this might be the toughest matchup I've faced. The commons all have big butts (2+ defense) and the guys that move on misses are really good (WB I think?)

    Best strat - kill your own dudes to start, bury your engineers and wall-damage events and your reinforcements, use spearman sparingly. Keep opponent off magic with drains, don't trade commons, play defense. Try to make Sam overextend to kill you, then trap him. If your opponent won't come at you, get behind two walls in a corner and use champions to pick off threats. The biggest weakness Sam has is no ranged commons, so champions are easier to protect. Baldar does work.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayAhre View Post
    JR here. My win% with GD is about 70, and this might be the toughest matchup I've faced. The commons all have big butts (2+ defense) and the guys that move on misses are really good (WB I think?)

    Best strat - kill your own dudes to start, bury your engineers and wall-damage events and your reinforcements, use spearman sparingly. Keep opponent off magic with drains, don't trade commons, play defense. Try to make Sam overextend to kill you, then trap him. If your opponent won't come at you, get behind two walls in a corner and use champions to pick off threats. The biggest weakness Sam has is no ranged commons, so champions are easier to protect. Baldar does work.
    Sounds like it could work, I don't like the odds of pulling it off but it could be done with the right draws and good rolls.
    I want more goblins.

  6. #26
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    Jun 2013
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    Brunswick, Germany, EU
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shr1k13 View Post
    -Baldar is a stronger champion (depending on dice rolls of course) for this MU than Gror because all units are at the least swinging for 2 except for HG.
    I feel like I have to comment upon this - it is (on average) MUCH more attack efficient to kill Baldar with 2AV units. On average, with 2AV units, you need 4.5 attacks to kill Baldar, compared to 6 with 1 AV units. In fact, it is even more attack-efficient to kill him with 4AV units then 1AV ones (with 4AV, it takes an average of (3/2)^4, or 81/16 = 5.0625).

    Of course, it is also more "swingy" to use higher AVs to kill Baldar, which is the main problem when I have to deal with him (my best friend is an Oldin/Baldar/Gror+HF fanatic).

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