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Thread: Avan Variant

  1. #31
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    [EDIT: for clarity's sake: the post that follows is a critique of the Esper88/Joseph idea of having walls take a wound if they're not used to summon that turn. It's not about Waterd's variant rules, which I have criticized in parts and borrowed from in other parts.]

    I see the point that wall destruction is pretty situational currently. But I still think this swings the pendulum too far the other way. You are making it really bad to put walls down unless you need them immediately, as they basically start a clock towards the end of your summoning capacity. This also gives a big advantage to the factions (Ret-Talus most notably ATM; Demagogue to a lesser degree) who don't really need walls out to get their stuff in play.

    I see some degree of cautious, defensive play as totally acceptable and I don't think we should try to eliminate it with big changes like this. I'd just like to see some forced momentum when it's needed to eliminate true stalemates.
    Last edited by dok; 03-31-2014 at 10:02 PM.

  2. #32
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    Not really. You see, one wound is hardly anything by itself. In the game right now, I'd be perfectly fine with my wall lasting 9 turns. However, when your opponent is attacking your wall, those extra wounds stack up quick. I'd love to see Ret get a boost, it would give it a more endless horde feel. And the Dema part isn't a problem, since mutations are useless without host commons. This rule does not eliminate defensive play from any faction with hardy commons. Only factions like CL, JE, SE, CG, and and BD would not be able to play very defensively. And since 4 of those 5 factions are already aggressive, but not making a huge splash in the competitive scene, it's fine to buff them. The only problem with the rule is that the BD may become susceptible to games where they have little magic and opponents have tons. They have frail, expensive units like the JE. But the JE are aggressive already, and have a few tanks. The BD do not, and aren't generally good at being aggressive.

    Another point to bring up - this really helps intensify the decision to build all of your commons and get your perfect 3 champ hand with 20 magic in the magic pile. You can still do this, but your walls will be decimated. Every common you don't summon, may mean your wall is destroyed.
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  3. #33
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    3 things to add here.
    1. You can still turtle with that rule, by summoning 0 costers and suiciding them. It's basically like letting them build one magic a turn, and that can last over 10 turns with most factions, meaning the opponent has to attack, giving you the advantage in the MUs where this matters, or their walls have to fall apart, meaning you can then charge in with your champs and kill it. Also, it couldn't really work with special walls, like vines or ice walls, but it then makes them much stronger. And Rallul gets 5 walls, and can heal them. so it definitely boosts unevenly, and doesn't force aggression.

    2. I'm interested in a variant with extreme antiturtling rules. Like, your summoner has to attack an opponent's unit or be on the opponent's side every turn after your third turn. Oh, poor Elien. Guess people won't like him so much any more. What a tragedy.

    3. Joseph, shame on you. A filth player such as yourself putting filth that low on a tier list? Sigh. And Frick is a ton higher than that, but now we are getting off topic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    Im with I like tau on this one!

  4. #34
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    GD get a huge boost out of auto-Wounded Walls since they have Wall destruction card and Architects to come on top of any stalemate.
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  5. #35
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    @TAU - Yeah, I know. I just realized that. I am thinking about what to do. Maybe forget wall rules. Damn it PHG, you've made it so hard to make a variant that doesn't bust any factions. Extreme anti-turtling rule? I already have one. All summoners have the following ability - IMMORTAL HATRED - When this Summoner destroys a unit, take one card from your discard and put it in your magic pile. If you do not destroy an enemy unit during the attack phase, place a wound on your summoner.
    I rank my tiers based off confidence going into the MU with other factions. I'm a bit nervous about going off against the A tiers. I feel fine facing B tiers. I feel confident facing C tiers. I am never really nervous about facing Demagogue, as his unique strategies come with their own weaknesses. In addition, I'm barely playing Filth anymore - instead I'm doing exactly what TNS is doing with the FK, but I'm doing it with the SE. I feel Selundar can do great things in the right hands. He won't ever light any fires in the competitive scene, at least with what he has now, but he can probably win a tournament or 2 with a good player. Blasphemy, I know.

    @TNK - Architects are the only problem. You will have to play around BtW, but I think that it's very possible to avoid the GD murdering you.
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  6. #36
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    Joseph, the immortal hatred could be won by Sam by turtling against anyone but maybe Sirian all out rushing him.
    Relax and enjoy your shoes.

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    I LIKE TAU! was Blur the Scholar in The Great Marsh. Life. Don't talk to me about life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    Im with I like tau on this one!

  7. #37
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    First, benefiting unevenly faction, is completly ok, factions have different powers now, the point is to favor more factions that are weak now.
    That's the reason I use sluggish wall because it benefits weaker factions like MV and CG.

    The you have to summoner units on your wall. I don't mind about the 0 cost sacrifice really, it still keeps the game going.
    Also you an always make it so you can't attack your own units (brute can attack and oaf can be attacked, big deal) I still hate that part of the game. Im just playing on ios VG vs VG vs mundungu and we spend the first 5 turns of the game killing our own units, it's so stupid.

    A rule like you said tau, that every turn you must attack or similar, was actually tried on ios, and honestly i liked it (i stopped doing it because people didn't like it) however it didn't benefit aggro factions, PE was still great, the opponent HAS to attack too after all. I really like this rule though

    it's great to keep the game going, but what i really want is a rule that makes you happy for attacking. So far sluggish wall has been the best. But i'm not sure if good enough.
    I like this breainstorm of ideas, keep throwing them plz.

  8. #38
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    This is one of my variant that worked quite well with me and my friend. It strongly encourages aggression, while doesn't mess up with the rule so much.

    "At the end of your turn, for each unit that you used to attack opponent's cards, you can gain 1 Aggression token (track them by using Wound tokens) or force the opponent to lose 1 Aggression token.

    During your Event phase, you can spend 6 Aggression token. Your opponent cannot use units to attack next turn."

    I think the mechanic of Aggression token is pretty interesting, and we can further balance it by changing the effects etc. I want to keep my rule simple while it doesn't do anything that messes with the core rule. Though my suggested rule will heavily nerf factions that have defensive starting position like Vanguards, it will encourage Ranged units play and punish those who try to turtle. The greatest fear of fighting with a turtler is the threat of getting destroyed in the next turn if you go aggressive, so by attacking here and there a little bit, earning Aggression tokens, you can prepare for a big attack against the turtler. Go aggressive with 6 Aggression tokens against Phoenix Elves is pretty overwhelming ^^

  9. #39
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    The variant I'm trying lately is the following" At the end of the event phase if you didn't summon a unit, add a wound to every normal wall you control, if you don't control normal walls, add a wound to your summoner instead"

    I would be ok with some variant of the variant proposed where if you start or end a with a unit on the opponent side of the battlefied you get one mana or some other bonus.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by I LIKE TAU! View Post
    Joseph, the immortal hatred could be won by Sam by turtling against anyone but maybe Sirian all out rushing him.
    I'm not surprised. I made it at about the same time Maldaria/Frick/Torgan/Bolvi came out. As for why this is the first time I share it, well, you all know my stance on changing the game.
    Marek is LOVE. Marek is LIFE.

    3 rules of SW:

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    2. Marek is the best Summoner ever.

    3. Marek will troll the everliving crap out of you.

    "If you can't blow them away with your brilliance, baffle them with your bullshit." -Marek (probably).
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