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Thread: 6 Questions/Clarifications unanswered in rulebook and errata.

  1. #1
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    Default 6 Questions/Clarifications unanswered in rulebook and errata.

    EDIT — I have been e-mailing with Isaac Vega, the game designer, and any time he rules on a question I asked, I am updating/replacing my question with his actual rulings since I think people would rather hear the answers than the questions.

    Hello,

    I have a seven questions regarding the game that I haven't been able to find answers to in the rules, errata, etc. or on the official and unofficial forums. I am hoping that maybe a developer will stop by to answer them for everyone, but I also e-mailed them and will post the response if I get one.

    Here are the questions:

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    (1) GARIUS

    EDIT — Ruling from Isaac Vega: When Garius destroys a development, any production on the development is destroyed with it.
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    (2) TECHNICIAN


    EDIT — Ruling from Isaac Vega: A player may only play Technician when s/he is bidding. The effect of Technician lasts for the duration of the auction. This has a couple of implications: firstly, in order to play Technician, you have to be bidding, which includes the opening bid of 0 ARC; secondly, if you do not play Technician when you bid, which includes your opening bid of 0 ARC, you have to wait until it is your turn to bid again to play Technician; thirdly, any other player may play Technician during her/his bid to block the opening bidder or any other player from any further bidding on that particular gang member.

    The Technician's effect lasts for the duration of the auction of a single gang member.


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    (3) CARDS WITH MULTIPLE ABILITIES

    EDIT - Ruling from Isaac Vega: For cards that have two conditions/ability conjoined by "and" such as "Draw a card and receive 1,000 ARCs" or "Move a unit 1 space and draw a card", you do not have to satisfy the first condition/ability in order to do/receive the second condition/ability such that in this example. This and should be treated as an "and/or". I am currently waiting on a reply from Isaac clarifying whether you have to do these abilities in the order listed and whether you can play multiple cards down and resolve their collective abilities in any order.

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    (4) SEMPENTO RODEN

    EDIT - Ruling from Isaac Vega: The Errata ruling on Sempento is being reversed. The cost-reduction ability is available to you (i.e., you may choose to declare and use the ability) at any time during your Produce>>>Development or Buy phase, including after you draw a card. Here is a quote from Isaac in the e-mail he sent me:

    … I will be changing the official ruling on this. Sempento and all cards that reduce the cost of a card or development effects are avalible to you until you complete your action. You do not have to declare what card or development you are trying to purchase when playing the card, its effect is just available to you when you do.
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    (5) RESOLVING CARDS IN BATTLE

    EDIT – Ruling from Isaac Vega: After the Attacker and Defender have revealed their cards, the Attack declares and resolves her/his cards one by one. Once the Attacker has resolved all her/his cards, the Defender then declares and resolves all of her/his cards one by one. The "one by one" was the focus of my original question, but I won't get into it here. In any case, these means that if you have a first gang member that reads "Roll 2 dice and add the total to your strength" and a second gang member that reads "Pay 1 Renown to add 2 to your strength", you may first roll the dice for your first gang member, and then based on their results decide whether you want to pay 1 Renown for the second gang member.

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    (6) DISCARDING DURING REFRESH OR RESET

    EDIT - Ruling from Isaac Vega: If you have more cards than Influence, you do not have to discard down to your Influence during the Refresh or Reset phase. If you do discard below your Influence, you may only draw back up to your Influence.

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    (7) RECRUITERS

    EDIT – Ruling from Isaac Vega: The Recruiter's effect lasts for the duration of the auction of a single gang member.

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    -Jedouard
    Last edited by Jedouard; 07-15-2013 at 04:03 PM. Reason: Reporting Developer's Answers.

  2. #2
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    Hey Jedouard, good questions huh..!
    I'm not one of the game's developers so none of my answers can be called "official". I have however, played the crap outta this game and typed quite a bit too.
    So I'll throw some thoughts out there know what I mean...
    Let's see, number one, I would think that when Garius decides to torch a development, any and all products on that building would disappear. It's still the Red gang's option though, whether to spend an action selling those products before pourin' the gas and flickin' the match eh.
    Question number two seems to have found it's own answer maybe. Yes the Techie boy and his use is fairly complicated when looking at "timing". But I think you've got it so I'll move on...
    Number three, hum... With cards that you play, oh how do I word this one... You don't have to "be able" to perform one part of the action to be able to use the second. If you can't draw a card (like with Yellow's deck), you can still collect the cash. If you can't move a figure (and really, I can't see this one happening too often, you can move a figure from your pool into the City one square) same thing, you can still draw a card. Or the other way around, if you have no cards to draw, you can still move a figure.
    I don't see this being an abuse to the power of the card you know. You're being allowed to do something and if you can't (or don't want to), well no harm to the other players. If you try to buy Renown without first buying a Black Market, well that's an abuse and it harms the other players (in a weird sort of way...)

    Phew, number four (this is startin' to feel like an english exam in high school...)
    All right this one's a toughy. When you decide to use your Sempento for his reduction ability, you should conduct your business immediately. Lay down any assistant Workers from your hand, any other cards that you'd like to use, then buy your item or building. Once your purchase is safely in hand, then finish the actions listed on Sempento's card, draw your card.
    This one is a question of timing again and it's come up a few times in the past few months. After the Errata was posted, it says you can continue to play cards after spending an action as long as it's still your turn.
    Before the Errata was posted, I came up with some house rules and I called them the Bishop's Alternative City (of Remnants) Rules. One of my "alternates" breaks down the timing question and elaborates with "once you've performed your true action, you may no longer play cards" (with the exception of a handful of "special" cards).
    Okay, sorry if that confused things even more... Here's the link to my thread and I think it's oh, post number forty four.

    http://www.plaidhatgames.com/sum_for...-Dummies/page5

    So yeah, short version, none of your hypothesis were the "best" in my opinion. Once you play Sempers, pick your purchase and make it. No betting on what card you'll draw in the hopes of making a bigger purchase huh.

    Clicking right along, question number five...
    Yep, you have to declare which cards are involved in the fight first. If you send in three Mercenaries, you can hope that they're all fired up and ready to go rolling plenty of power. But you can also wonder if they're all fighting half assed and rolling blanks.
    What you can't do, is lay one Merc, roll his ability and decide you need a second Merc, roll his ability and throw your third.
    So yeah, determine who's involved and roll all their abilities. Now the defender has a slight advantage here because he gets to see the total strength number of his opponent before resolving his special abilities. If the defender were Blue and had a number of Enforcers involved in the battle, well he gets to decide to boost them with Renown, after he sees what's facing him (makes sense..?)
    Question six, no, you don't have to "discard down". If you've built your position up to one of strength, you don't have to toss stuff just because the end of the round came. The downside is that you won't be able to draw anything "new" but then sometimes that's not so bad huh.

    Ack, there's a bonus question.?!
    All right but my extra credit better have me getting an A plus eh...
    An "auction" is any and all bidding. Anytime there is a Recruit action being used, by you or your opponents, the Recruiter can throw his extra two ARCs in the pot. This makes him extremely valuable and yes, way powerful.
    But this is one of Yellow's serious advantages. He can usually out recruit everybody, whenever he wants. So it doesn't break the game, it just makes having Technicians really critical when you're fighting Yellow (and usually, when a Techie comes up, Yellow looks at him like a waste of time. I mean, Yellow doesn't need any "help" recruiting right. But once his opponent gets the Techie and uses it against him, well that sorta teaches you eh...)

    All right hopefully this is a start. If something I tried to explain sucked and you need more info, feel free huh.
    Fight the Yugai people..!

  3. #3
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    Hi Bishop,

    Thanks for the response. I have been e-mailing with Isaac Vega, the designer (for those on the forum who didn't know his name), and he has given clarifications on most of the questions I had, and most of the time you are right. I have updated my original post with his responses so people who just want the answers can get them, but I wanted to respond to you since you were nice enough to answer my questions and because Isaac did come out with some different explanations and also has decided to change his ruling on Sempento.

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    Regarding Garius, Isaac confirmed that when you use Garius to destroy a development, all production on the development is destroyed as well.

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    Regarding Technicians, I am waiting for clarification of one detail about this from Isaac, but from what he has said thus far, I am pretty certain as you mentioned that you must play your Technician when you bid, which may include your opening bid of 0 ARCs.

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    Regarding Sempento, now you play Sempento, you may now declare the price reduction at any time during the Buy or Produce>>>Development phase, including after you have drawn a card from his ability. Here is a copy of our e-mail exchange

    Quote Originally Posted by My (Jedouard's) Question
    ... this was written in the errata regarding order of conditions/abilities on Sempento Roden:

    Q: Sempento Roden’s card says ‘Reduce the cost of a black market card or a development by up to 2,000 ARCs and draw a card.’ Do I have to declare which card or development I intend to purchase before drawing a card?

    A: Yes. When playing Sempento for his cost-reducing ability (or a Worker, Trader, etc.), you must declare which card or development you will Buy or Develop. You may continue to play cards, including the one drawn via Sempento, up to the point of purchase.
    What happens if a player cannot satisfy the purchase? For example, I play Sempento Roden, I declare the targeted Market Card or Development, I draw a card thinking I know exactly what is in my draw pile and that I will 100% get a card that will give me enough ARC to make the purchase, but then I reveal the card and it is some non-ARC-generating card I forgot was in my draw pile. I don't have sufficient ARC to make the purchase. I can think of only three things to explain what to do: (A) you have failed to satisfy the first condition and have created a potentially irreversible problem; (B) you do not have to try to satisfy a former condition in order to do/receive the second condition, but if you fail, no biggie, in which case we have to worry about less honest players, or (C) you do actually satisfy both conditions of the card in order because this is a very literal interpretation of the card, where "reduce the cost" does not equate to actually buying the card. I would guess it is the latter of the three.
    Quote Originally Posted by Answer from Isaac Vega
    4) Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I will be changing the official ruling on this. Sempento and all cards that reduce the cost of a card or development effects are avalible to you until you complete your action. You do not have to declare what card or development you are trying to purchase when playing the card, its effect is just avalibe to you when you do.
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    Regarding cards with "and's" in them, the "and" does not imply the second ability is conditional on the first, meaning it is really an "and/or". So, in the example I gave above, you are correct, you can move a gang member and draw a card, not move a gang member and draw a card, or move a gang member and not draw a card.

    The question now with this new Sempento ruling is whether you have to do the two abilities in the order they are written on the card.

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    Regarding declaring cards in battle, I think I must have been unclear with my original question. Both you and Isaac took it to mean "Do the two players in the battle take turns declaring cards", which wasn't what I was intending to ask. I edited my original post to (hopefully) be more clear.

    In short, what I was asking is this: After a player reveals all of her/his cards, does the player (A) state her intent to use each card's abilities one by one and then proceed to resolve those abilities one by one or does the player (B) state her/his intent to use all the chosen abilities at once and then proceed to resolving those abilities? For example, say I have a first gang member that allows me to roll 2 dice to increase its strength by the total dice role and a second gang member that allows me to pay 1 Renown to increase its strength by 2. In Scenario A, the player would be able to roll the dice for the first gang member then, based on the results of that roll, decide whether to spend renown on the second gang member. In Scenario B, the player would have to declare the abilities she/he intends to use, announcing she/he will roll the dice and whether or not she/he will pay the renown, then proceed to rolling the dice and paying the renown.

    Scenario A seems a bit more intuitive, but Scenario B adds the interesting effect of forcing players to decide whether or not to use their optional abilities to hedge their regular abilities before they know the results of their regular abilities.

    I'll post an answer to this when Isaac writes back.

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    Regarding the question about discarding, just as we thought, you do not have to discard.

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    Regarding my question about auctions, I think either I was unclear about my question or I have to disagree with you on your interpretation. I understand that Recruiter applies to all of your bids on a single gang member during a single Recruit phase, but what I am interested in is whether the effect of the Recruiter persists from the auctioning of one gang member to the auctioning of another gang member during that single Recruit phase.

    For example, it's another player's Recruit phase, and I play Recruiter for myself. I win the first Gang Member. Does the Recruiter's discount apply to the next gang member during that Recruit Phase? If it does, this seems way too powerful because unless there is a Technician, Yellow could lay down 2-3 Recruiters and take all of the good gang members, in a single opponent's turn. Yellow would give up turns to do so, but 1 or 2 lost turns is likely not that big of a deal if all of your opponents are stifled with weak gang members for multiple rounds.

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    -Jedouard

  4. #4
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    Hey that's cool that you got words from the man himself. Isaac, and the whole crew at Plaid Hat really, are excellent with their customer service. Now if only AT&T could learn a thing or two from them...
    That's a great clarification on the Sempers ability too. I think it could've gone either way there, as long as it was discussed pre-game so everyone can use that ability in the same way (which is typical of many of the "issues" with City, the game still works both ways you just have to pick one of the ways you want to play and make it fair for all huh...)
    For the declaring cards in battle question, we've always played it with Scenario A. I don't think you should be "restricted" to deciding what you'll use or play, before you know how some of your fighters will behave. Scenario B seems a bit more challenging though so I'm almost tempted to try it one of these nights.

    With the Recruiter, his power does not carry over to multiple auctions, sorry for the confusion. Once you use that puppy, he's "spent" so to speak. If you managed to win a ganger with him, he gets dropped in your discard pile and his benefits are gone. If you didn't manage to win with him, the way we play says that he still gets "spent" and thrown in your discard pile.
    After all, you called him, he responded and approached your possible recruit, fulfilling his part of the bargain I suppose. Just because your recruit wanted to go elsewhere, doesn't mean it was his fault and he still needs to get paid and sent on his merry way where can recover and drink his forty and all...

    Hey so good brainstorming with you man, keep up the good work and fight those Yugais..!

  5. #5
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    New question:
    Does the spent renown from steal go back to the initial pile of 200 or is it spent and removed from the total for the remainder of the game?

    I initially assumed they went back into the pile but someone else said in the strategy section to play steal- remove it from the game every time for the arcs. Steal isn't removed and the only other option is the renown. Just curious which is correct. I'm pretty sure it makes little difference to the final outcome.
    Thanks!

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