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Thread: Red feels weak, even in combat - what are we missing?

  1. #1

    Default Red feels weak, even in combat - what are we missing?

    We have played two games (3 players and 4 players respectively) so far which is, to be honest, not a very representative number. But in both games the red player lost quite badly.
    It does not feel like their fighting process makes up for their lack of resource generation at all.
    Granted, their gang leader brings a whopping 7 attacck value on the table but your other cards are very mediocre when it comes to combat value and you cannot use his ability when you play him in battle. Sure, returning Scrappers to your hand is great but you need to win combat first and Scouts are measly 1s. Also, you cannot really afford to bluff in combat because losing figures hurts a lot when you cannot easily replace them as red.
    Blue has 4-attack gang members if they spend some renown, green is admittedly weak without Jara but if he joins the battle, every other green gang member is stronger than a Scrapper (2 dice equal 3 attack power on average).


    When enemies play conservatively and simply build high-renown developments in their starting areas and place their units defensively, they can easily reach 4-6 battle dice. And while I often read in various games that forcing the enemy to play defensively already is a merit in itself, I do not see red winning easily, even if he holds the middle, just because he has a hard time getting resources as fast as everybody else, especially if thay sit on their turn 1 moneymaking developments.

    Lately, in 3 or 4 player games, even if you manage to seriously hurt a player, you will have spent some resources on that without getting much of a relative advantage against the other players out of it. All you achieved was hurting that one opponent and yourself (any maybe got a destroyed development and and benefitor out of it (now you get even less cash per cycle!).

    Again, this is only after two plays and I have to admit that in both games, red did some stupid things and I might fail in my attemps to imagine how things may have worked out if red had played optimal.
    I am not even asking for a strategy guide but some pointers would be nice. Red actually feels like one of the weaker gangs in combat. There must be something we are missing (and I am rather sure that we played by the rules correctly).

  2. #2
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    Actually they are quite strong, to be honest I dont know, Truth has actually dominated as Red quite a few times, so hopefully he'll post and tell you how to play them right haha.
    Your punishment must be more severe...

  3. #3
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    Hey Zejety, good question friend..!
    The Red gang is a bit trickier because his "skill" lies in your ability to make good decisions I think.
    Being combat oriented makes for a pretty strong advantage but it doesn't mean you will win every combat and can even be misleading if you go into it with the mindset that you're going to beat everybody to a pulp.
    Most of my experience comes from two player games and in those, you can use your Mysterious Benefactor's for the five ARCs right away giving you a jumpstart (make sure you use that money wisely, preferably in a way that gives you more money in the future because you're going to be poor "deck wise"...)

    Some of the strategies that I have encountered or heard of, is, one, grab cards that help you gain Renown when you fight. Broadcast Equipments and Informer boys are your friends. If you're able and "bored" beat the grap outta some nearby Yugais and watch the Renown roll in.
    You can even beat them and "hope" for the "three" result where you call down more Yugai, something the others dread in an early game. Yes, I said it, use the Yugai as a weapon because you can beat them over and over with your Scrappers and your opponents have to scramble for more cards. Use the Yugai for the eighteen Influence Increase, crickey there's no end to this strategy really and I have scratched the surface a time or two but never really exploited the full potential of this tactic.

    What if there aren't any Informer boys and Equipments..? A second choice of mine when playing Red is the Energy Pills or the Advanced Weapons. Load up on a couple of these each and you can pretty much go where you want, walk right around Strongholds and hit their crosshairs...
    Try to look for enemy developments that aren't strongly held. You want to go over, take their ARCs Counterfeiters and smash those buildings with Garius' special.

    And really, Red needs to be able to Recruit well. If everybody else is turtling up, start Recruiting. You don't "need" all the best guys but a few Fighters or Ex-Soldiers (even without boosting them) can make you pretty powerful. Three out of the four "champions" are also pretty strong for Red.
    Try to beef up on homies so that you can "outlast" the others in multiple battle rounds. Get your ten figures out there and think about it for a minute, if you have ten figures in the City, even if they're all hanging out on your end, with Pills and Weapons, well it makes your opponent's turtle shell's really tight and small.
    Pretty soon, they have to overstretch themselves and one of the things you need to become good at, is sensing a weakness. You want to be able to smell their fear and strike when they're at their weakest AND you want to win (don't fight if you think you can't win).
    This creates a mean, ugly reputation and soon, everybody is afraid of you and nobody can budge from their phone booths because they know that big bad Red is out there and lookin' in their directions. Also, be patient and watch for the others to fight. Once they've fought and cards are sittin' in their Discard piles, attack whoever won. You're like the guerrilla jungle fighters that fight really freakin' dirty (and you love it).
    Remember that a lot of what your opponents do, is based on what they think you can do, or are doing. If they're quaking in their toeless boots in fear all the time, it makes it hard to think with a clear head maybe.
    Hope this helps and if you try some of these tactics, type your results here so the rest of us can learn too you know.
    Fight the Yugai people..!

  4. #4
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    Red is my gang of choice, and let me tell you, they are quite the dilemna. With red, you don't go in with a strategy. You make it up as you go. Here's some general guidelines:

    Garius - The strongest gang leader's ability is perhaps the most intriuging ability of all. You must know when to use it for the resources, and when to keep that development. In general, you want to keep developments close to you, placed well, or green ones. Destroy the rest. But that's just general. You have to decide on the spot whether or not its worth it to use the ability or keep the development.

    Black market/ Gang members - You really want those war drones, broadcats equipment, informers, and anything Iggaret. Informers and broadcast equipment help reward you for the aggresive behavior, and war drones/iggaret help keep you on top of the fighting.

    Fighting - The red gang is really all about the fighting, of course, at first glance, though they aren't. But fighting IS still a huge part of properly playing the red gang. Scrappers are absolutely amazing, since they completely eliminate the element of all cards being one use in a fight. 6 strength that will always remain as long as you win is really good. If you aren't going for a devlopment, garius is a complete bad***. Scout s allow superior positioning. And MB provides the thought of fighting Garius very scary.

    This is just scratching the surface. I reccomend checking my thread, CoR Strategy Guide, and B637Bishop's thread, City of Remenats for Dummies. Both are very helpful.
    Marek is LOVE. Marek is LIFE.

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  5. #5

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    We play this game at work pretty often. i would say we have played it close to a dozen times. and not counting the first game which was a clusterduck of us not knowing the rules, red has not won a single game. we vary who plays what factions randomly so its not a case of one player not getting red, its NO one is getting red. Blue also has this problem. out of our games i would estimate a easy 75% win rate for yellow. and 25 for green. blue or red has yet to win a single game.

    its easy to say "get all these recruits and black market cards" but when the other 3 factions decks are filled with cards that let them grab all the black market cards and recruits before i can even have a chance its rough. i try and bid on a recruit that's good with red yellow sees that and just outbids me. same with blackmarket i see one pop up thats good, then poof someone tosses out a 3k off black market card.

    i'm a bit frustrated cause i LOVE this game but the balance seems pretty skewed. over the course of roughly a dozen games, a total of about 8 different players no one has won with red or blue. i am not sure if red has even came in 3rd place ever.

    its quickly becoming the faction that either no one wants to play, or some poor sucker (we are in the middle of a game now where i am this sucker) volunteers to be red to try out some new strategy, which ends up with them losing terribly.

  6. #6
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    The City of Remnants offers a whole bunch in the "trial and error" department. Like, more than can be explained.
    In some ways, the Red is the weakest of the bunch because this gang really shies away from the economy aspect.
    If I had to sum up all my experience without typing a dictionary sized book (even though I've probably typed about three dictionaries on this game already)...
    I'd suggest that when you're running the Red, try to Recruit. All the time. Your other major function should be to Move. Again, all the time.
    Your strengths lie in your ability to ignore the developments, most of the Black Markets, Renown for the most part...
    And just fight my friend. You want to be fighting (or threatening to fight) constantly.
    If you're recruiting, it doesn't really matter which recruit you get, so don't spend any money (like you said, Yellow's gonna out bid you anyway). You want that figure on the board and your goal is to have fourteen or so out there, as quickly as you can.
    Being able to move more often means you can flank attack people. You can hit them where they're weakest, you can straight up attack their cross hair space, essentially, you can do things the other gangs can't.
    You can trim your decision making down to two directions. Am I attacking this turn or recruiting..?
    And as you play with this style (and learn how to win), slowly see what you can "add". A handful of Informants is always nice, an Advanced Weapons or two will be beneficial.
    But don't think you're "losing" when others are fighting over the War Drones. Let 'em have them and watch when they use 'em. Then attack with your six figures and paste 'em.
    It's all try and try some more you know.
    If you still can't beat the gang boots off somebody, type some more details and we'll try to see where you went wrong you know.
    Also, I'd like a job where I can play City with some cool people on the clock so let me know where you're at and I'm moving Coffee Outlaw.
    Until then, fight the Yugai people..!

  7. #7

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    ha. i will give that a try next time Bishop. I work at Kingsisle entertainment. we have a strong board game culture here. almost every lunch hours is 3-4 games going in the break room.

  8. #8
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    Hey, that's a real odd problem you got there man. Many players agree that Red is very powerful. What you really want to do is make other players uncomfortable. Force them to bid on military cards when they would benefit more than economy cards, because of they don't you will destroy them. Make them uneasy, make yourself a threat. You really want to just be flooding the board. If A Yellow player is intent on outbidding you to those sweet War drones, Advanced Weapons, and Iggarets, punish him. Immediately blitz him. Make him sorry he messed with you. When those cards are still in the discard pile, There's nothing to save him from your wiping of 2 of his figures off the board. Destroy his hard earned developments. Then retreat, or push forward, depending on how soon you reckon he'll get those cards. And use your cash to buy your own developments. You say yellow has a large win percentage, which tells me you and your opponents haven't fully grasped the on board part of the game. Losing two cards is bad, but really, losing two figures early on is devastating. Keep in mind that numbers on the board can very well give the win to a player with weaker units. He will be forced to rebuild his army/developments, which leaves him no room to buy more military cards. If he does, finish him off. Also, try to get a god hand - Garius with 2 scrappers plus 2 more combat units. I can guarantee that war drone with Garius with 2 or 3 scrappers will give nay force a run for their money.
    Marek is LOVE. Marek is LIFE.

    3 rules of SW:

    1. Marek is perfect.

    2. Marek is the best Summoner ever.

    3. Marek will troll the everliving crap out of you.

    "If you can't blow them away with your brilliance, baffle them with your bullshit." -Marek (probably).
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  9. #9
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    Played two games, read a bit of the thread,

    My two cents (a gut feeling backed by a whole two games, playing red once, and also there's this thread ;]); The benefactor card is too weak.

    That's 3 cards out of ten (that you start with ;_; ) that are simply bad. Note the lack of parenthesis on "bad" :].
    I can see red having a reactive "equalizer role", as in gaining the upper hand in-game by punishing any other color that gets too greedy, which is fine. Meta-game pressure and all that good stuff. All fine.
    But....., having three cards in your starting deck that don't effectively do anything for you in "the long run", assuming a 4 player game, is just crappy :[.

    AMIRITE?
    Last edited by HeatEXTEND; 01-25-2014 at 11:29 PM.

  10. #10
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    I wish there was a way to play online because after playing a few more times I´m convinced that red is the underdog in 4 player games. i think in 2 and 3 he is fine, precisily because the benefactor card. Discarding first turn for 5, is Great, in two player games, instant 10 arc, is very good. Red is very good in 2 man, I guess ok in 3 man, but really a different tier below in 4 player games.
    I so far played 3 games of 4 players once with each color, then played 2 times as red in 4 player games, once in 2 player game. I won every game, except the 2 times as red in 4 player.
    I think in 4 player is Blue>Yellow>Green>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Red.

    Red will get outbidded by yellow, so be prepared to pray for getting something out of the top of the deck. You have no money for good blue or green development, if the luck god grace you , you can get 5k first turn, not enough to do anything interesting., let alone most of the time you wont´even get that. Rushing in 4 player game is absolutely suicidal, you will just break the legs of some player with minimal benefit , while the other 2 will camly out econ the red and the affected player. 2 turns later you will be just be an underdog even on fighting.

    You want red to be balanced? Allow him to discard benefactor cards, even when the colored player is in the game. But as it´s now, there is no valid strat for a red player in a 4 player game.

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