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Thread: Chapter 2: Lily in Limbo?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike the bike View Post
    Interesting to see that Im not the only one having problem with both the rules and the special chapter rules in this game. I love it, its full of atmosphere and everything but the rules arent quite that obvious as one would assume. It seems like many players (like myself) had troubles interpreting the rules even tough they look very simplistic (right use of the word simple?).

    Before the next game session it is obvious that I need to:
    1: Read every rule very carefully.
    2: Reread every rule and make notes wherever needed. If something is still not obvious I know what to read again.
    3: Read the FAQ and erratas and comparing with my notes.
    4: Testplay.

    Seems like its pretty easy to get confused during this game. Anyway I just love it. The miniatures are great and the look of the tiles makes me feel like the first time I entered the world of roleplaying games in 85 or 86. I used to paint miniatures before I ever laid my eyes on rpgs but the feeling when we started playing was like "Wow. Im in a faerietale. I can do whatever I like and anything can happen." Nothing can beat that feeling and its great getting that feeling again, even tough its just a board game and Im getting old....
    One thing I think players need to know is that every chapter is different. Every chapter will have new micro rules that only apply to that chapter. This is not how games normally work, but it is exactly how the RPG's of my youth worked. And the funny thing is, you really can't do some of the things we do in M&M without approaching it this way. The chaos that is Miz Maggie's kitchen in chapter 1 is an example. When I first designed that room encounter, it was simply kill the roaches and you got the Miz Maggie token. Surge was Brodie. But after playtesting a bunch, I wanted more story, more cinema.

    Imagine this kitchen where the cook is upset because of a roach infestation, then suddenly 4 mice come flooding into the mix. Now she has a roach AND mouse infestation! This is an opportunity for a minigame done M&M style, and embedded in the story book. Every time I present a minigame, it is another opportunity for somebody to not understand the rule or to be put off by having to learn more, when they thought they knew how the game worked. This is why I try to build the mingames based upon the same set of variables, in hopes that eventually folks will be used to it and say "Ahhh yes, and I bet all I need is to roll a star on an action die and I get extra dice for each friendly mouse helping."
    Always the Mice Guy!

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grungebob View Post
    One thing I think players need to know is that every chapter is different. Every chapter will have new micro rules that only apply to that chapter. This is not how games normally work, but it is exactly how the RPG's of my youth worked. And the funny thing is, you really can't do some of the things we do in M&M without approaching it this way. The chaos that is Miz Maggie's kitchen in chapter 1 is an example. When I first designed that room encounter, it was simply kill the roaches and you got the Miz Maggie token. Surge was Brodie. But after playtesting a bunch, I wanted more story, more cinema.
    Sounds like me. I want the cinematic feeling and prefer the roleplay in a thematic way before the metagaming where you try to play like "I WANT TO WIN THIS GAME , instead of playing the way the mice would do if they where for real.

    Of course the best strategy to fight monsters is to take out the toughest ones first, even if they are some spaces away. Just use magic and ranged weapons. If it was for real those little mice would probably go for those enemys closest to them because they are the most direct threat. Anyway..in the end I guess everybody plays in their own way and nothing is "right" or "wrong", just different styles of playing the game.
    Last edited by The Storyteller; 08-29-2013 at 12:27 PM.

  3. #13
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    Jun 2014
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    Hello, old thread bump.

    Quick intro - love the game and play it with my two sons.

    As we played Chapter 2, we had a few questions:

    Does Lily start with her equipment? The rules did not specify. We decided to equip her with her bow as she is a mouse and started this chapter. She defended herself with zero problems. Should she have been unarmed? This leads to question #2.

    Does Lily start with an ability? Mice start with one ability, but the rules did not specify if that was also true for Lily, as she started in a non-player controlled state. We decided to play without an ability for her, although she amassed a fair amount of cheese before we rescued her.

    Changing one sentence in the storybook could alleviate this: Place Lily on the tile, on a mousetrap, with(out) her starting equipment, and with(out) one selected ability.

    Thanks for the clarification,

    --Grimmway

  4. #14

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    Yes, Lily starts with her equipment and 1 ability (Also 1 cheese IIRC). Think of it as if she went out on a solo mission and got trapped (Which she leans a lesson from thereafter) but not captured.

  5. #15
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    Oct 2009
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    Yes Sydcomeback has the right of it! She is off on her own mission and got in over her head. She has her starting equipment, and a starting ability and she gets a cheese to start (presumably the cheese that was in the mousetrap).
    Always the Mice Guy!

  6. #16
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    Dec 2015
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    I understand that lily is by her self with her bow + an ability + a cheese and that each encounter the others face adds a roach to her tile.
    My group has decided to play this as a campaign and thus have 4 characters we want to play all the way through (Nez, Tilda, Filch, and Maginos)
    But with lily being required I cant figure out if we can play with our 4 to save lily or do one of us have to miss a chapter and miss out on a 1/11 of the progression of their character. I cant think of a fair way to balance this.
    Is it possible to have 4 fight to lily while she defends herself and then have her kind of just tag along only being able to move on the return?

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyanYeti View Post
    I understand that lily is by her self with her bow + an ability + a cheese and that each encounter the others face adds a roach to her tile.
    My group has decided to play this as a campaign and thus have 4 characters we want to play all the way through (Nez, Tilda, Filch, and Maginos)
    But with lily being required I cant figure out if we can play with our 4 to save lily or do one of us have to miss a chapter and miss out on a 1/11 of the progression of their character. I cant think of a fair way to balance this.
    Is it possible to have 4 fight to lily while she defends herself and then have her kind of just tag along only being able to move on the return?
    I don't see why not, just increase the difficulty by one creature to battle. Works for me.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Rochester MN
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyanYeti View Post
    I understand that lily is by her self with her bow + an ability + a cheese and that each encounter the others face adds a roach to her tile.
    My group has decided to play this as a campaign and thus have 4 characters we want to play all the way through (Nez, Tilda, Filch, and Maginos)
    But with lily being required I cant figure out if we can play with our 4 to save lily or do one of us have to miss a chapter and miss out on a 1/11 of the progression of their character. I cant think of a fair way to balance this.
    Is it possible to have 4 fight to lily while she defends herself and then have her kind of just tag along only being able to move on the return?
    You may play it as you wish, of course. However, this is not the only chapter where you will face this type of issue. Chapter 4 requires all 6 mouse figures be part of the adventure. There are chapters where Colin is required to be in the party. You may find out that you need to 'compensate' for the chapter set up requirements on 4/11ths of the chapters or more.

    Individual mouse advancement is really not as important as you currently imagine. It is a coop game, after all. In this specific coop game, it is often best for the mice to pool their cheese to ensure that one of the characters can select a new skill, and use their cheese to keep the minions at bay.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyanYeti View Post
    I understand that lily is by her self with her bow + an ability + a cheese and that each encounter the others face adds a roach to her tile.
    My group has decided to play this as a campaign and thus have 4 characters we want to play all the way through (Nez, Tilda, Filch, and Maginos)
    But with lily being required I cant figure out if we can play with our 4 to save lily or do one of us have to miss a chapter and miss out on a 1/11 of the progression of their character. I cant think of a fair way to balance this.
    Is it possible to have 4 fight to lily while she defends herself and then have her kind of just tag along only being able to move on the return?

    if you really play as a team , then it shouldn't be to hard for all character abilities , while playing me and my daughter were able to get tilda all of the healer abilities ( not including first aid ) by pooling all of our cheese since we figued the more heals before the end of chapter 1 ,and since some chapters require specific mice so its not a bad idea to have each mouse with a second ability if it comes up. But i had the same problem i didnt wanna switch my party up....but alas Filch and Colin " decided " to stay in Barksburgh and partake some fresh apple cider and enjoy the local taverns, leaving Nez , Tilda and Maginos to venture into the tunnels

    but when i really sit and think about it , like every video game RPG ive played if you dont evenly level all of the characters in your party then ur asking for trouble at some point in the story when you HAVE to select that one guy you never waned to play.........and then ur stuck with like a level grind for exp

    but if u decided to use a 4th mouse and not Lily the i would increase the difficulty by not letting Lily atk only defend , since this is suppose to be a " gotta hurry " feel to it

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
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    Pittsburgh, PA
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    My playgroup beat chapters 2 and 3 yesterday, and while we did play Lily's role correctly, we were under the impression that you have to kill the roach with Lily before you explore because the initiative track hasn't been cleared yet. Just my 2 cents. Not sure if this is "right" but it certainly isn't wrong as you can just choose to wait if you don't want the extra roaches piling up in her room if she hasn't killed them yet.

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