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Thread: “More” Magic Drain

  1. #1
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    Default “More” Magic Drain

    What if Magic Drain was based on having more, not fewer, units than the opponent? And perhaps having at least as many as the starting unit count for the summoner? Would players just hide and huddle a bunch of units? If so, perhaps instead of setting a unit minimum, say more units and attacked an opponents’ card on the opponent’s side of the board in the previous turn. A change like this would definitely encourage summoning commons.

  2. #2
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    Changing it to more units on the board might also mean after a total clear of your units the turn after you even get double magic drained and can't recover from being behind - I think that's not necessary better/less abusive as the current one (I would call it CCUE = can't catch up event )

    I'm in general against messing around with the opponents economy events (except maybe for Vlox, where it's the main theme).

    As the most easy fix I strongly suggest to change it to discard drain (put top 2 cards from enemy discard on magic, no restriction). Is a bit weaker but the loss of restriction allows for fast timing push play and good game flow. For example Oldin can really push hard on your walls, Elein can champ stomp play much more reliable, Ret can get warlocks back.

    @summon more commons: all magic drain decks normally play a lot of commons on top of the 3 champs they field (Oldin with reinforcement; Elein with warrior, changelings and changeling ability summon late game; Ret with warlocks, Augurs and raise; Tacu with Sorgwen and Vlox with Renegates and thiefs. The problem is actually the restriction that forces you to NOT have any commons/units for 1 turn. Once the restriction is gone, the decks play much more freely.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwalker View Post
    I strongly suggest to change it to discard drain (put top 2 cards from enemy discard on magic, no restriction). Is a bit weaker but the loss of restriction allows for fast timing push play and good game flow. For example Oldin can really push hard on your walls, Elein can champ stomp play much more reliable, Ret can get warlocks back
    Don't you think that "discard drain" will be systematically played as it is absolutely better than putting a hand card on magic pile?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nburghardt View Post
    What if Magic Drain was based on having more, not fewer, units than the opponent? And perhaps having at least as many as the starting unit count for the summoner? Would players just hide and huddle a bunch of units? If so, perhaps instead of setting a unit minimum, say more units and attacked an opponents’ card on the opponent’s side of the board in the previous turn. A change like this would definitely encourage summoning commons.
    I think that the first idea of "if you have fewer" was to help a player in difficulty. A kind of artificial balance used in several games.

    I suggest to change "if you have fewer" with "if you have less than (opponent unit number -1). So if you suspect your opponent collects magic drain, you can attack with one unit, force your opponent to summon to defend and the game goes on.

    If your opponent want absolutely to keep MD his hand, soon or later, he will be blocked as he will only have only 3 units in hand and it may create weakness in his game.

    In other words, as MD is very powerful it should be balanced with a proportional constraint.

    https://www.plaidhatgames.com/sum_fo...ve-fewer-units
    Last edited by Batou31; 10-13-2018 at 04:10 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batou31 View Post
    Don't you think that "discard drain" will be systematically played as it is absolutely better than putting a hand card on magic pile?
    yes absolutely. This is obviously not the most exciting "fix" but from the testplay we did (as a dummy for MD changes) it showed very good results. The idea is the following - for the active player the decks economy stays the same, but the restriction is gone and with it the need to reduce your units and it's just a quick magic influx (gives you +1 magic). For the opponent it's much less severe (no one complains too much if the opponent gets a tiny magic boost but the opponent is unaffected), but due to the economic spike he must prepare for a possible huge timing push.

    What happens is that offensive play is much more possible on both sides - MD user can sustain their economy during a push due to the magic gain, other player can push without being punished by double magic drain and a counter attack (magic drain, magic drain, burn, greater burn + Elein attack for example).

    In our errata project we played a lot with Ret talus using a more fancy version for MD. You must select up to 2 FK commons from any discard and can place them into your magic pile. It's really not so much weaker, as the loss of restriction gives you a lot of freedom in your play and pulling your lost warlocks back is quite nice. For a universal change to MD (because it's hated), I strongly recommend to remove the "steal magic" part of it.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwalker View Post
    yes absolutely.
    I get your point.

    But you have no choice when you have this card in hand.
    "No choice" means "no reflexion".

    So I don't like this MD fix.

  7. #7
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    I suggested once, “If you have less magic in your magic pile” this would encourage people to spend the magic instead of building it for big champs... not sure how would it work but I feel it would be much better than the current.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lcanela View Post
    I suggested once, “If you have less magic in your magic pile” this would encourage people to spend the magic instead of building it for big champs... not sure how would it work but I feel it would be much better than the current.
    Hi Icalena

    Do you think there is a need to encourage player to spend magic instead of building it for big champs?
    For example, Sera's great healing is efficient for big champs, but is it necessary to struggle her?

    For me it's not obvious.

    For sure it encourages to play common units but only for the player who don't have such a MD.
    The one who have the MD, can build magic, summon a champion, and wait quietly to use MD.
    Such a MD is easier to play than the original as you can first spend magic during summon phase and then play accordingly MD.

    Nevertheless, this constraint is interesting as it respects the idea to help the player who is the less developed.
    So finally this constraint may be stacked with the original one into something like:
    "If you have fewer unit (...) and less Magic point (...)
    It may be interesting.
    Or more complex "If you have less MP (units value on the battlefield + your magic pile) than (...)"... In this case, if you summon a unit you still have the same MP (battlefield +Magic Pile)
    Last edited by Batou31; 10-16-2018 at 03:06 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batou31 View Post
    Hi Icalena

    Do you think there is a need to encourage player to spend magic instead of building it for big champs?
    For example, Sera's great healing is efficient for big champs, but is it necessary to struggle her?

    For me it's not obvious.

    For sure it encourages to play common units but only for the player who don't have such a MD.
    The one who have the MD, can build magic, summon a champion, and wait quietly to use MD.
    Such a MD is easier to play than the original as you can first spend magic during summon phase and then play accordingly MD.

    Nevertheless, this constraint is interesting as it respects the idea to help the player who is the less developed.
    So finally this constraint may be stacked with the original one into something like:
    "If you have fewer unit (...) and less Magic point (...)
    It may be interesting.
    Or more complex "If you have less MP (units value on the battlefield + your magic pile) than (...)"... In this case, if you summon a unit you still have the same MP (battlefield +Magic Pile)

    Good points... maybe your suggestion combining both conditions works better...

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