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Thread: Reversing Bad Rulings

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  1. #1
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    Default Reversing Bad Rulings

    The point of this thread is to fix unintuitive rulings. It's not to change rule cards (i'd consider changing rules of Upgrades to be changing a rule card.)

    I'd change:

    - Units that can't move can't use instead of moving ability; units that can't attack can't use instead of attacking ability.
    - At anytime ability doesn't work in the middle of a single unit's movement
    - Zealots can't attack Ice Golem-Ice Walls; Units that can move through units only but not walls can't move through Ice Golem-Ice Walls.
    - Gror's attack affects Javeilineers that aren't adjacent to Gror (this is the only intuitive explanation: such Javs aren't even being attacked by Gror, they're just being affected by attack).
    - JS Shaman can be moved by Abua Shi Chant of Haste on grounds that it does not refer to Abua Shi's Chant of Haste card as events referenced by other cards are always referenced by "Event Name + Card" like "Chant of Haste card," and JS Shaman does not include word "card." (this one is admittedly harder to justiy than the others.)
    - Either Violet and Flinger can use Marek's EA Far Shot to both attack through cards to attack a Unit up to 4 spaces away, or neither can. Currently, it's been ruled that Flinger can use Far Shot and attack through a wall but that Violet cannot choose a Unit through a Unit that's up to 4 clear straight line spaces away. This makes no sense.
    - Chant of Negation does not affect units with summoning abilities on the basis that it does not affect units in your hand on the basis that a unit in your hand has no ability, it is only once it touches the battlefield it has an ability.

    What are some other ones?
    Last edited by commandercool; 06-27-2018 at 01:21 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by commandercool View Post
    The point of this thread is to fix unintuitive rulings. It's not to change rule cards (i'd consider changing rules of Upgrades to be changing a rule card.)

    I'd change:

    - Units that can't move can't use instead of moving ability; units that can't attack can't use instead of attacking ability.
    - At anytime ability doesn't work in the middle of a single unit's movement
    - Zealots can't attack Ice Golem-Ice Walls; Units that can move through units only but not walls can't move through Ice Golem-Ice Walls.
    - Gror's attack affects Javeilineers that aren't adjacent to Gror (this is the only intuitive explanation: such Javs aren't even being attacked by Gror, they're just being affected by attack).
    - JS Shaman can be moved by Abua Shi Chant of Haste on grounds that it does not refer to Abua Shi's Chant of Haste card as events referenced by other cards are always referenced by "Event Name + Card" like "Chant of Haste card," and JS Shaman does not include word "card."
    - Either Violet and Flinger can use Marek's EA Far Shot to both attack through cards to attack a Unit up to 4 spaces away, or neither can. Currently, it's been ruled that Flinger can use Far Shot and attack through a wall but that Violet cannot choose a Unit through a Unit that's up to 4 clear straight line spaces away. This makes no sense.
    - Chant of Negation does not affect units with summoning abilities on the basis that it does not affect units in your hand on the basis that a unit in your hand has no ability, it is only once it touches the battlefield it has an ability.

    What are some other ones?
    SM Swordsmen that can move through VWs safely and move through units, shouldn't be blocked by a unit on a VW? (Because they don't present the original conflict that would arise if a VW roll were missed.)

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by gojaejin View Post
    SM Swordsmen that can move through VWs safely and move through units, shouldn't be blocked by a unit on a VW? (Because they don't present the original conflict that would arise if a VW roll were missed.)
    Yeah, that's a good one. That ruling was always stupid: the Swordsman is allowed to move through a unit and a wall--why then, when a unit is on a wall can it not move through the unit on the wall?

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    I don't know if this one makes sense in the rules, but I hate that a freshly mutated unit is considered a different unit such that it ignores abilities and events targeting the prior unit like abilities of Kogar, Tinkerer, Deceiver, etc.

    I also really hate that you can "move" a Unit 0 spaces.
    Last edited by commandercool; 06-27-2018 at 01:55 PM.

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    Another one that doesn’t make much sense to me—Units that can move through cards can’t move through vine walls

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    Quote Originally Posted by commandercool View Post
    Another one that doesnít make much sense to meóUnits that can move through cards canít move through vine walls
    If we're going for theme and making sense intuitively, it seems like various forms of Flight might get through vine walls safely, but definitely not Trample.

    As far as moving 0, I think it makes sense as many times as it doesn't. Why shouldn't Vermin be able to shake around in place and spread some plague? :-)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by gojaejin View Post
    SM Swordsmen that can move through VWs safely and move through units, shouldn't be blocked by a unit on a VW? (Because they don't present the original conflict that would arise if a VW roll were missed.)
    This can't be solved easily, it should have been included in the text of the swordman (this unit can move through units, even if they are on top of a VW). Otherwise you get a lot of conflict with Trample, Satara, Burrow.

    However, they should have excluded unit that can move through CARDS from the rule, as only fly can do that. The VW rules should only affect units that can move through units but not though cards (burrow, satara, trample, SM)

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    With Gror/Violet + Sluggish, the thing is, intuitively, all the affected Units should just take the 2+ wounds. That's the most intuitive ruling. The problem is clearly how strong that is. It's probably fine with Violet, but it's clearly not with Gror bomb.

    BTW, what is the ruling on how Gror interacts with SLUGGISH units?

    @jwalker. I don't see the problem with saying SM Mercenaries can move through units on Vine Walls. The distinction between SM Mercenaries and Satara and Trample Units is that SM Mercenaries can't get stuck on VWs and therefore can't get stuck on top of the unit they're trying to move through.

    I agree FLIGHT Units (units that can move through "cards") intuitively should be able to move through VWs as long as there's no Unit on that VW. I'm not sure whether this creates a problem, though: how do you say FLIGHT Units get to move through VW but not VW with Units on it? If you say FLIGHT Units can move through VWs, and we already know that they can move through Units, that sounds a lot like the SM Swordsman formula = move through VW + move through Units = can move through units on top of VWs.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by commandercool View Post
    With Gror/Violet + Sluggish, the thing is, intuitively, all the affected Units should just take the 2+ wounds. That's the most intuitive ruling. The problem is clearly how strong that is. It's probably fine with Violet, but it's clearly not with Gror bomb.

    BTW, what is the ruling on how Gror interacts with SLUGGISH units?

    @jwalker. I don't see the problem with saying SM Mercenaries can move through units on Vine Walls. The distinction between SM Mercenaries and Satara and Trample Units is that SM Mercenaries can't get stuck on VWs and therefore can't get stuck on top of the unit they're trying to move through.

    I agree FLIGHT Units (units that can move through "cards") intuitively should be able to move through VWs as long as there's no Unit on that VW. I'm not sure whether this creates a problem, though: how do you say FLIGHT Units get to move through VW but not VW with Units on it? If you say FLIGHT Units can move through VWs, and we already know that they can move through Units, that sounds a lot like the SM Swordsman formula = move through VW + move through Units = can move through units on top of VWs.
    No my point is that flight should allow to move over VW savely and also allow to move over VW + unit

  10. #10
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    What do you guys intuitively, thematically see going on with Whirling Blade and Marked Target?

    1. Whirling Blade:
    (a) Violet is aiming for one creature, but the blade whirls around across so much space that people get hurt in the crossfire?
    (b) Violet throws a sweet trick shot that bounces of up to 3 (without Far Shot) things she sees?

    2. Marked Target
    (a) Rage at the hated opponent ups the power of your swing, amount of magical energy you channel, etc.
    (b) Identifying the opponents weakness lets you strike at a place that does more damage?

    Thematically, 1a suggests that a non-adjacent Javelineer would still be hurt, while 1b doesn't (she can't see it). 1b is also strange in that she can't choose to avoid friendly units, which seems absolutely essential from the gameplay side. Yet 1a may have some strange thematic implications as well, perhaps with Runt.

    2a suggests that everyone in Violet's path gets blasted with 3 dice. 2b that only the main target would take the third die.

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