Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 51

Thread: Ranking releases

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    A few feet from Colgha.
    Posts
    2,010

    Default

    Sunder is hands down the best deck for new players. Always one of my first choices to hand to a person I am teaching.

    I just adore Frick for the variety of strategies that exist for the guy. Lots of viable decks for him, as well as a lot of tactics that goes into playing him correctly.
    Uncleeurope was Hulgorad the Sad in RALLUL'S BANQUET
    Uncleeurope was The Seer who Drank too Much Beer in The Great Marsh
    Uncleeurope was Prince Elien the Felon in The 12 Masks of the Summoner
    Uncleeurope was Matt E. the Fatty in The Dance of Devils

    In other news, CUSTOMS!
    Quote Originally Posted by I LIKE TAU!
    As for what I hate most: ... Uncleeurope.
    Quote Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
    Sam Farthen is OP
    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    He just rams in, his games last 5 turns...tops

  2. #42
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,855

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    I don't think Frick is really that well designed, it's very fun, but it has the problem that is all about 0 costers, and yet because how OP is Join the horde, you wantyour deck with almost as many 2 costers as you want.
    If you ask me what's hte most well designed deck, my vote goes to sunder. The deck is almost perfect design wise, my only complain is that greater command is a little too weak. Even it's base deck works together so well.
    If that's the worst thing that can be said about Frick, I think that's a good argument for his perfection. JTH is OP under original valuing of commons. However, at the end of SW design history, you saw the valuing of commons shift (Malenatar, Brath, Farrah, Warlock in Sirian) and JTH is fine under this schema--it's this type of heavy reward for commons that actually makes common heavy play viable. Moreover, this heavy rewarding of commons in JTH was actually a great advance in SW design.

    In general defense of Frick--not sure much defending needs to be done--he has amazing level of simplicity in individual cards with complex interactions between cards and really interesting "double-edged" abilities.

    Sunderved is indeed a classic.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,429

    Default

    The problem is that it rewards SPECIFICALLY 2 costers, not commons in general, that is my complain. Proper frick build includes almost as many 2 costers as you can, you can leave 3 or 4 slots to 0 costers or climbers, just to have some Leader of the horde target (and because wall climbers work really well with throw stones), but generally you play 9-12 2 magic costers.
    The deck has leader of the horde and very cool 0 costers, and it all gets mostly overshadow by join the horde. Teh deck IS join the horde.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,429

    Default

    And btw the proper way imo to make Commons good is what Hordes of Rabble and Throw rocks do. Affect SPECIFICALLY commons. Join the horde however affect specifically 2 cost commons.
    Sunder does it btw. Sunder ability is top 10 most powerfull summoner abilities in the game, and it affects only commons, as do most of his events.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,855

    Default

    I think there are several ways to make commons good. The alternative is creating undercosted commons like Wraith, SG Shaman, Changeling. I see either way as proper.

    Regarding Frick, the tension between 0 costers and 2 costers is almost as small of a design flaw you'll see in SW.

    For me, there are so many strong summoner abilities now, I wouldn't rate Sunderved ability in top 10. AV boosts are always great, but you rarely are utilizing it on 3 commons to get +3AV per turn. Also, as with all formation summoners, it can have difficulty with about 25% of all summoners.

    Above Sunderved, I'd put all action starter summoners: Tundle, Rallul, Demagogue, Jexik, Meda (combined w/Amoeba), and Scraven. I'd also put following above Sunderved: Shiva, Immortal Elien, Krusk, Mugglug, and Grognack. Then, Sunderved's ability is very close for me between Ret-Talus, Nikuya Na, Sera.

    Disclaimer: I haven't yet played Sunder with Malenatar units and it's clear he got a boost from them.

    Frick v. Sunderved. Sunderved is classic but not perfect. As you mentioned, Greater Command is a little weak. Additionally, Torodin's Advance ties you to Torodin whom I don't like. Later on came the Storm Mage for whom +AV from Sunderved's ability is irrelevant bc you're summoning Storm Mage for its ability. Furthermore, Sunderved had no Units like a Heavy Knight to counter movement/displacement/control events like Ensnare, Taunt, Mind Control. Finally, Sunderved was a little weak.
    Last edited by commandercool; 04-30-2018 at 02:46 PM.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,429

    Default

    You sometimes get +3AV, and +2 is extremly common. Getting +2 during the whole game is really insane.
    Interesting you name grognack an ability that i find one of the worst of the game. Nikuya Na is pretty mediocre too, Rallul is also quite mediocre to bad, if you would tell me the worst thing of rallul is it's summoner ability. With the rest I mostly agree.I would put Maldaria there. i did a ranking once i dont know where it is.

    "Additionally, Torodin's Advance ties you to Torodin whom I don't like."
    I really don't mind this at all. I know some people dislike when events tie the summoner to a specific common or champion , i on the other hand have no problem with it. If you mean you don't like torodin..well.. I really like Torodin in Sunder. Tough I agree in some matches Luka is just better.

    Sunder was weak as all aggro summoners. But he was always among the strongest of aggro summoners. Even today, Sunder is the STRONGEST aggro base deck imo, With maybe Iellien making competition. Only after ridiculous combos and imo deck degenerations Moyra, Frick and Brath, overcome sunder in offensive power.
    Last edited by Waterd; 04-30-2018 at 09:13 PM.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    You sometimes get +3AV, and +2 is extremly common. Getting +2 during the whole game is really insane.
    Interesting you name grognack an ability that i find one of the worst of the game. Nikuya Na is pretty mediocre too, Rallul is also quite mediocre to bad, if you would tell me the worst thing of rallul is it's summoner ability. With the rest I mostly agree.I would put Maldaria there. i did a ranking once i dont know where it is.

    "Additionally, Torodin's Advance ties you to Torodin whom I don't like."
    I really don't mind this at all. I know some people dislike when events tie the summoner to a specific common or champion , i on the other hand have no problem with it. If you mean you don't like torodin..well.. I really like Torodin in Sunder. Tough I agree in some matches Luka is just better.

    Sunder was weak as all aggro summoners. But he was always among the strongest of aggro summoners. Even today, Sunder is the STRONGEST aggro base deck imo, With maybe Iellien making competition. Only after ridiculous combos and imo deck degenerations Moyra, Frick and Brath, overcome sunder in offensive power.
    Nikuya Na's ability mediocre? The classical turtle + move adjacent + poision cloud then move to range next turn and laugh about the poisoned champ is really strong. Then you can also apply extra movement damage to clear blockers, clear 0 cost units for free and even use it with high cost to place a poison marker on a hard to reach target (to finish of a wounded Sorgwen for example).

    Sundaved's ability is obviously very very good, but it's the whole deck concept that is not crazy good (except fall back no real economic event). On top of that the close proximity means he needs to play more exposed AND get's especially weak to common hate/displacement summoners or explosive ones (extremely hard to avoid Rallul's pulse for example but also Barrage+Strong wind).

    I personally like Sunda a lot, but more for sentimental reasons. From a pure power perspective my Berserker(4)+Oaf(4)+runt(3)+Taskmaster(2)+Feeder+M ook+Dibs Frick deck just feels like a more straight power deck with as many tricks as the Sundaved's deck, without suffering the drawback vs. movement/common hate factions (except maybe Lun who is really hurting economically)
    Oh and Frick is just fricking amazing, such a great deck. I really like the simple play style you can do with him, but also then go totally nuts with combos and complex turns (rabble to move that wounded oaf + taskmaster adjacent, into join the horde to make him 0 cost, into throw rock to suddenly hit the opponent summoner with 6 mook dice).
    Last edited by jwalker; 05-02-2018 at 10:07 AM.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,429

    Default

    I agreed in my comment that Frick, brath and moyra are better than sunder once deckbuilding kicks in...through imo, whacky combos.
    And yes Sunder vs Rallul is like 8-2 For Rallul, it's very hard to do anything vs Rallul with sunder except to get extremly lucky in an early rush.
    In fact because Magic pulse, rallul completly destroys all summoners that depends on being "on the frontline".
    Last edited by Waterd; 05-02-2018 at 11:38 AM.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    The problem is that it rewards SPECIFICALLY 2 costers, not commons in general, that is my complain. Proper frick build includes almost as many 2 costers as you can, you can leave 3 or 4 slots to 0 costers or climbers, just to have some Leader of the horde target (and because wall climbers work really well with throw stones), but generally you play 9-12 2 magic costers.
    The deck has leader of the horde and very cool 0 costers, and it all gets mostly overshadow by join the horde. Teh deck IS join the horde.
    It is depend of playstyle- targeted cost of deck. E.G. I'm using 8x 2 cost minion, and 5x 0cost (including Lurkers). For me packing 10-12x 2 cost units into deck is dumb, and only makes LoH situational (single Lurker with Frick is 2/2, he have stats of 2 cost unit stats for 0 mana ).
    I love Frick, cause you can pack every single type of common CG units (12!), and all of them works.
    Ow... Ow... Owlord!

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,429

    Default

    The problem is that you don't need that many commons for leader of the horde, you alrady start wtih 4 0 cost units. Join the horde give you 0 cost units for 3 turns, and more important you have smeedge who is generally alive for several turns, when you add all that, you only need to fill a few slots of 0 costs to have leader of the horde activate 90% of the turns. you can fill that with 2-3 0 costers.
    Being able to do join the hordes quick also overshadows the extra AV you gain with leader of the horde. My standard build is (have in mind i play no mercenaries and commons are limited to base, othwerise i would play urick and 10 oafs)
    5x oafs
    3x Berzeker
    2x Taskmaster
    3x Clinger
    Smeedge
    Mook
    Dibs

    I think being able to use leader of the horde a few extra turns, is completely overshadowed by almost ensuring every time you draw join the horde, you can use it at it's full potential.

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •