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Thread: Ranking releases

  1. #11
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    Oct 2011
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    Phantoms are very very bad design. Especially for factions that rely on champs (like Sera or classic Abua) they can ruin games. The main complain is that phantoms are win or loose units. If my opponent starts summon phantoms I know I rather win (he doesn't posses, summons bad units that hand me tons of magic) or its a loss (he get's 1 or more possesses).

    Everyone who completely dominated a game just for the opponent to summon 2-3 phantoms to possess 2 or your champions will know what I mean.

    I personally did like alliance, the decks were nicely designed (the way they play). However, at this time I knew we will have at least 2x16 summoners (1st and 2nd) so I wasn't happy about additional +8. Further, they had/have the problems with the deckbuilding. Still I rate alliance as a rather good product and would have rather seen some summoners as a second summoner of the factions instead. Moyra instead of Sam, Marek instead of Scraven for SG, Warden instead of Meda, iElein replacing original Elein. Alliance has some very good decks IMO also from the design (Moyra, iElein, Warden) and lacks the unfun part of the original master set (taunt, ensnare, taculu, into darkness, lun and so on).

    I'm wondering why Jexik is below Sirian. For me both are very similar. They do ok as a deck but seem to be missing a tiny bit. They also make their first summoner much more competitive thanks to their commons (mostly renegate and warlock).

  2. #12
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    Nov 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    Goodwins blade made sera, not unplayable...why so bad? just phantoms? I mean ellien has magic drain..
    I thought that Goodwin's Blade did a lot of good for those two factions- Leah/Jacob and some potential for offensive commons for Sera, Cultists and Anica... Even Phantoms were a response to the champion-heavy strategy of the time, and one way to deal with Elien or Grognack who would normally be too powerful to deal with. To be fair they were never my kind of unit and I rarely use them. I was more of a 10-cultist with some reaper kind of person.

  3. #13
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    Apr 2015
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    I never play phantoms, because I don't like their random aspect.

    I remember I had exactly the same point of view: phantoms ruin the game, should not exists and so on.. and I had this discussion with a good FK player. And finally he changes my mind (a little bit).

    Possess is like a fear ability vs champion. Even if the phantom is not there if you want to keep advantage VS FK, you have to take them into account.

    Phantoms are in the theme: the fear of FK. How such a fear vs champion should be better design?

    Moreover I will not cry for a player who looses Gror because of a phantom.
    Last edited by Batou31; 04-04-2018 at 02:33 PM.

  4. #14
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    Jan 2011
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    Phantoms are awful really, its not that they are a threat vs a champion, that's a good thing, is that even if you play them vs champion they may as well lose you the game.
    Phantoms are not tactical vs champions, is basically "throw three dice, if you hit a 6, you win, if not, you lose the game". That's a terrible thing to have ina strategy game.
    I would almost prefer it if phantoms ALWAYS capture champions, they would be op, but at least thy would be consistent. FK players would play them and non FK would just have to try to win the game without Champions. Things would be clear and more deterministic, as it is.
    And fear is also a terrible ability. Most "throw a dice" abilities are really awfull for the game. Generally extremly swingy. SW has already tons of luck wtih attack dice and card draw.
    having extremely swingy abilities like Coward, fear, possess, is an unnecessary spit on the face to strategy.

  5. #15
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    May 2015
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    I love Goodwins Blade for Sera. Even now, Leah, Cav Knights, and Jacob are good there. Additionally, Cultists were necessary for Ret and, and Anica was really good. I just don’t really like Anica in terms of fun level.

    I was originally going to rank LGoodwins Blade just under Taliyas Spirits but remembered the Phantoms.

    I have Sirian above Jexik bc: (1) Subjectively i prefer active summoners; (2) his theme is more developed (self-wounding Units) than jexik (not sure what the theme is); and (3) Jexik though I like him and think he’s fun, has a little run and hide in him; and (4) Sirian is far less convoluted than Jexik
    Last edited by commandercool; 04-04-2018 at 08:44 PM.

  6. #16
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    Oct 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    Most "throw a dice" abilities are really awfull for the game. Generally extremly swingy. SW has already tons of luck wtih attack dice and card draw.
    having extremely swingy abilities like Coward, fear, possess, is an unnecessary spit on the face to strategy.
    I only partially agree with this. As an example let's look at the skeletal archers: they have a "throw a dice" ability, but it works 2 out of 3 times and if it was 100% reliable it would be overpower. None the less, you can build a strategy around it, I have a magic starving deck with lots of them (don't remembre the exact number), warlock and reavers with Anica and Hirud as champions and so far it worked quite well.
    My point is that some of these abilities are unfun and completely unreliable (like phantoms) and other are not.

  7. #17
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    Not sure Waterd would disagree. There’s a distinction between Units like Savager, Skhull, Phantom, Kreep and Units like Skeletal Archer, Reaver, Charger. The first set has much more value depending on die roll: Phantom, you gain an enemy champion, Fear you can discard full health expensive commons or mutations, and Kreep you lose your champion. On the other hand, Skeletal Archer roll is difference of magic, Reaver is difference of magic and special placement of a 1AV Unit that’s overcosted, and Charger you just get 1-2 spaces of less movement.

    Obviously these kind of Units with die roll abilities are more along a continuum regarding the amount of value than you can get from the die roll. The Phantom and Kreep represent the extreme increase/decrease of value while the Skeletal Archer is on the other end of an extremely small amount of value depending on die roll, etc.

  8. #18
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    Apr 2015
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    Fear can only be designed by a random (here a "throw a dice") ability.

    You can change fear ability with something statistically equivalent like "each time a common moves adjacent ... the common unit receives one wound" but there is no more "fear" feelings this way.

    Fear occurs when you can't foreseen the result.
    Last edited by Batou31; 04-05-2018 at 06:31 PM.

  9. #19
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    Also Skeletal archer triggering 100% of the time would not make skeletal archer OP, in fact they would probably still a a bad unit, just slightly less bad.
    If skeletal archer would trigger 100% of the time, and only trigger when the opponent destroys it, then it would be playable, but only because Dark ritual and becuse most FK units are the worst in the game.
    1 Av attacks are quite terrible, most ranged 1 AV units are terrible, for them to be decent, the faction needs to have "boost attacks" so you can do 2 AV+ attacks.

    Skeletal archer if it had a 100% trigger ability would be "okeysh" in some factiont that boost AV. In fact they would be more ok In Mad sirian if it werent because warlocks are just too good under FK standards for any other unit to matter.. Most 1 AV ranged units that gets used are so because they are in such faction (jungle archer, Cherubim, Slinger) or they have an amazing ability and their AV/ranged is just a secondary thing (Deciever) or they are used for their body more than thir attack (SO Shaman, Deahtseeker, Cultist).
    Last edited by Waterd; 04-05-2018 at 08:56 PM.

  10. #20
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    Oct 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    Also Skeletal archer triggering 100% of the time would not make skeletal archer OP, in fact they would probably still a a bad unit, just slightly less bad.
    If skeletal archer would trigger 100% of the time, and only trigger when the opponent destroys it, then it would be playable, but only because Dark ritual and becuse most FK units are the worst in the game.
    1 Av attacks are quite terrible, most ranged 1 AV units are terrible, for them to be decent, the faction needs to have "boost attacks" so you can do 2 AV+ attacks.

    Skeletal archer if it had a 100% trigger ability would be "okeysh" in some factiont that boost AV. In fact they would be more ok In Mad sirian if it werent because warlocks are just too good under FK standards for any other unit to matter.. Most 1 AV ranged units that gets used are so because they are in such faction (jungle archer, Cherubim, Slinger) or they have an amazing ability and their AV/ranged is just a secondary thing (Deciever) or they are used for their body more than thir attack (SO Shaman, Deahtseeker, Cultist).
    I see your point, and maybe I'm just too soft with skeletal archers because they fit very well thematically, but I don't see them as bad as you do. Just two words, I don't mean to derail the topic too OT, but if the ability worked 100% of the times you could put 10 units in your deck that would never go in your opponent's magic: you're almost halving the magic he can obtain by killing in a game, how could that not being too much?
    That said I agree that most 1AV units are in the situation you describe, I just think skeletal archers ability make them worth their cost, but only if you build the deck to maximize that value (Hirud and Anica are a must here).

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