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Thread: Real errata--suggestions and ideas

  1. #341
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    Throwing out the Saturos and Malenatar ideas jwalker and I have talked about:

    Saturos
    - Reference card. Move Saturos to bottom left OR move Saturos to bottom right and maybe moving the farthest right common over 2 spaces to the right to cover Saturos.
    - Greater Blood Summon. During this turn, Shadow Elf Units gain the following ability: GREATER BLOOD SUMMON. Once per turn for all Units you control, when this Unit destroys an enemy Unit, you may choose a Common Shadow Elf Unit from your hand and place it on the space the destroyed Unit occupied.

    Malenatar
    - Malenatar. During your Movement Phase you may discard a card from your hand to choose up to 2 Common Units you control within 3 spaces of Malenatar. Move each chosen Unit up to 2 spaces.
    - Superior Execution: You may play this card immediately after you roll dice with a Mountain Vargath Unit. Change one die result to a 6.

  2. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcanela View Post
    Hi Jwalker... I got stuck playing Malenatar vs Base deck elien. I am using your variant for MD.

    I am nto sure if Malenatar is too weak, or maybe is the lack of ranged units but I found the event to be too strong, because what has happened in my experience is that at some point either defensively or offensively you kill an adjacent PE unit but instead of killing it, it remains there, later a new unit (normally a champ, would counter) attacking first even on your side of the board + it will use Spirit of the Phoenix... it is very very strong in this MU.

    As I said before, I dislike that all Elien events need zero preparation.. you can always use burn and G burn on any unit on the board, you can always use SOTP easily, and now this new event is again very easy to use, just move forward with a warrior attack a wall or any unit but instead of retreating to a wall, leave it there.. someone will come to get the magic but instead... you will be attacked again by a drake which means 5 attacks on any unit (2 from warrior + 3 from drake) and very likely due to precise you will get all 5 wounds.

    I have tried 6 games to defeat Elien with Malenatar (base deck and deckbuilding Malenatar) but no luck so far.

    I need to try against another Summoner as maybe Malenatar is too weak? what is your experience with him? in the survey we ddi to check which summoners to help, malenatar was down there and was initially flagged as a candidate to be changed, but due to lack of experience of most players with him he is not part of the project. I wonder if he should still be checked! maybe your MD version is fine and the issue is just Malenatar being too weak.
    we honestly didn't find the time to properly test the new event suggestion out. My question would be - do you think the old magic drain would be in any way less/equally brutal ? I think yes. Malenatar has a rather weak economy and is most probably weak to high damage + hit and run that elein is pretty strong. I personally think in this MU Malenatar will need to go all out + assassination setups as a follow up / backup otherwise I just don't see him winning. That said just by the pure movement tricks malenatar can dish out early assassination looks very doable to me (Unify + Malenatar + Aspirant + any ranged champ is really hard to avoid, especially combined with onslought)

  3. #343
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    I think we're still in the process of designing Tundle. We have the Lun ability changed (great idea by jwalker), but I think we're still looking to limit Tundle's ability and maybe lower the economic potential of the events. So here's a suite idea:

    Tundle. Instead of attacking with Tundle and another Unit you control, you may place a card from your Discard Pile under Tundle or a card under Tundle onto your Magic Pile.

    AND:

    Illusionary Warrior. Spend 1 Magic Point to place a Common Unit from your Magic Pile next to a Deep Dwarf Champion or Gem Mage you control.

  4. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by commandercool View Post
    Throwing out the Saturos and Malenatar ideas jwalker and I have talked about:

    Saturos
    - Reference card. Move Saturos to bottom left OR move Saturos to bottom right and maybe moving the farthest right common over 2 spaces to the right to cover Saturos.
    - Greater Blood Summon. During this turn, Shadow Elf Units gain the following ability: GREATER BLOOD SUMMON. Once per turn for all Units you control, when this Unit destroys an enemy Unit, you may choose a Common Shadow Elf Unit from your hand and place it on the space the destroyed Unit occupied.

    Malenatar
    - Malenatar. During your Movement Phase you may discard a card from your hand to choose up to 2 Common Units you control within 3 spaces of Malenatar. Move each chosen Unit up to 2 spaces.
    - Superior Execution: You may play this card immediately after you roll dice with a Mountain Vargath Unit. Change one die result to a 6.

    Regarding Malenatar changes:

    1- seems perfect to me.
    2- I don’t like it, this event normally has synergy with some champs which need discarding cards from your hand.

  5. #345
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    With Superior Execution, you should read my commentary in the strategy section about it. It only really has synergy with Malenatars abilityy and Varden. It is only useful for Malenatars ability at the beginning of the game and then with varden but you can’t count on drawing Varden. It’s pretty useless all other times. For a card that’s supposed to be the closest thing to his economy, that’s terrible.

    Relatedly, Onslaught is a type of economy but it’s quite variant: you can roll 2/2 so the event yielded 2 damage for 1 magic, or it can yield 0 damage for 1 magic if you whiff. That’s terribly high variance for economy.

    Additionally, Korbolden, Ossa, and Brutes within Mal are extremely high variance. They all do something cool or nothing at all.

    So this actually does synergize with the champions Korbolden and Ossa and removes variance from Onslaught and the Brute.

    Direct damage is a thing of the Mountains Vargath. It has to be worded this way so it synergizes with Ossa and the Brute

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcanela View Post
    Regarding Malenatar changes:

    1- seems perfect to me.
    2- I don’t like it, this event normally has synergy with some champs which need discarding cards from your hand.
    I was first also a bit sceptical about removing two out of 3 cards that actually help malenatar with his discard mechanic. But the I realized that once you limit malenatar to 1 card (for 2 units) there are not a lot of units left that use this mechanic and very few turns were this card makes any sense. Once you have "battle procurement" you need to discard 3 cards to gain any use out of the event (otherwise just discard the event card + battle procurement). The idea is to reduce the power of the "early all in" or blitzkrieg as CC called it but also give some stable performance over the rest of the game as compensation. The idea with the "change one dice result to 6" is really not bad once you think about what you can do with it

    a) make sure that onslought attack kills, so the blocker dies
    b) make sure that brute actually hits
    c) make sure Ossa (Thunderclap dice) and Korbolden (1 AV) do not let you down, but also for Bellow it's useful.
    d) make sure you still kill a unit with tough mechanic up (or use stormmages :P)

  7. #347
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    And here my current Tundle errata - untested and purely a suit that I hope will deliver

    Current Tundle:
    Tundle is innate weak to wall pressure and early pressure + exchanges. The longer the game goes on he can easily recover from a lot of the early game losses due to his insane magic regeneration. Further, Lun removes his whole weakness to wall crowding/pressure, as he's just to easy to abuse, especially with Tundles ability. Then obviously golems and gem golems did add a lot to his standing power and he is considered THE strongest summoner in the game (or at least in the top 4).

    Suit:
    Tundles:
    3 possible variants for graded power adjustment
    a) tundle ability changed to: once during your turn, when you use an ability you may ignore it's magic cost.
    b) (slightly stronger as it combos with wake the father gem): once during your turn, when you use an ability with a magic cost (0 cost is still a magic cost) you may place a card from your discard pile onto your magic pile
    c) tundles stats reduced to 5 life or the sword symbol

    Illusionary warrior:
    place a common unit "with a cost of 2 or lower" from your magic pile adjacent to a champion or a gem mage

    Lun (universal change to DB):
    same as now but after the enemy unit is called it cannot be wounded during that turn.

    no Stone Golems (universal change):
    Cannot be played in Tundle as Rallul units cannot be played by none mercenary summoners

    The idea is, that without lun its much harder to fend of wall crowding. Further, tundle cannot amass a lot of magic once the storm is over. Like nearly all summoner he has a limited resource pool that he needs to work with. With lun nerf and illusionary warror limitation, heavy commons are now an option again which means early wall ptessure can be reasonable strategy
    Last edited by jwalker; 07-08-2019 at 07:56 AM.

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by commandercool View Post
    With Superior Execution, you should read my commentary in the strategy section about it. It only really has synergy with Malenatars abilityy and Varden. It is only useful for Malenatars ability at the beginning of the game and then with varden but you can’t count on drawing Varden. It’s pretty useless all other times. For a card that’s supposed to be the closest thing to his economy, that’s terrible.

    Relatedly, Onslaught is a type of economy but it’s quite variant: you can roll 2/2 so the event yielded 2 damage for 1 magic, or it can yield 0 damage for 1 magic if you whiff. That’s terribly high variance for economy.

    Additionally, Korbolden, Ossa, and Brutes within Mal are extremely high variance. They all do something cool or nothing at all.

    So this actually does synergize with the champions Korbolden and Ossa and removes variance from Onslaught and the Brute.

    Direct damage is a thing of the Mountains Vargath. It has to be worded this way so it synergizes with Ossa and the Brute
    ok, happy to test it

  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by commandercool View Post
    With Superior Execution, you should read my commentary in the strategy section about it. It only really has synergy with Malenatars abilityy and Varden. It is only useful for Malenatars ability at the beginning of the game and then with varden but you can’t count on drawing Varden. It’s pretty useless all other times. For a card that’s supposed to be the closest thing to his economy, that’s terrible.

    Relatedly, Onslaught is a type of economy but it’s quite variant: you can roll 2/2 so the event yielded 2 damage for 1 magic, or it can yield 0 damage for 1 magic if you whiff. That’s terribly high variance for economy.

    Additionally, Korbolden, Ossa, and Brutes within Mal are extremely high variance. They all do something cool or nothing at all.

    So this actually does synergize with the champions Korbolden and Ossa and removes variance from Onslaught and the Brute.

    Direct damage is a thing of the Mountains Vargath. It has to be worded this way so it synergizes with Ossa and the Brute
    Thinking about superior execution ... I think for Malenatar it would be useful to have some Knock around power via event... how about changing a dice to 6 and giving the unit Knock around?

    I feel sometimes Malenatar finds himself in enemy battlefield and has no way to escape, so Knock around could be used for both attacking and to send Malenatar to safer grounds at the cost of one wound.

  10. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcanela View Post
    Thinking about superior execution ... I think for Malenatar it would be useful to have some Knock around power via event... how about changing a dice to 6 and giving the unit Knock around?

    I feel sometimes Malenatar finds himself in enemy battlefield and has no way to escape, so Knock around could be used for both attacking and to send Malenatar to safer grounds at the cost of one wound.
    Hmm we can keep that in mind. I actually pushed for the timing change of the ability because of the "standing out of position" problem of malenatar. Since the timing is "at any time during movement phase" or better (i would prefer) "before or after moving with a unit" malenatar can move units and then still move to safety ... so i think this issue is covered.
    Additionally adding the knockaround ability adds a lot of text and would be pretty problematic as knockaround works on ranged units.

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