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Thread: Real errata--suggestions and ideas

  1. #241
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    Last one is the best for my taste but reapers needs to be checked in detail.

    "Phantom. During your Movement Phase, you may move this Phantom under or out from under a FK Unit with an Attack Value of 1 that you control. When this Phantom is under a Unit, add 1 to that Unit’s Attack Value."

    my analysis:

    1- Phantoms can move under or out from under a FK with Attack value of 1: the second part is tricky, you can move out from under a unit with attack value of 1, it means once the phantom is under, the AV is 2, then you cannot come out from under such 2AV unit. I understand the idea, but it needs to be explained more accurately.

    2- When a reaper has a unit underneath his attack value is 2, then, is the phantom allowed com come under him?

    3- Can phantoms stack ? I would say NO because once a phantom is under a unit, such unit is already 2 AV so, the phantom cannot come under it what do you think?

    4- Reapers would have the least benefit from phantoms compared to other units. why? the phantom under a unit has the same effect as any unit under a reaper, it should be +2 AV but in reality it is only +1 as the effects overlap and don't stack.

    Then my proposal to phantom ability is:

    "Phantom. Can be summoned under Reapers. During movement phase can move under a FK unit you control with 1AV. When the phantom is under a unit it modifies its attack value to 2 ignoring any other AV modifiers.Phantoms can move from under other units."

    Do you see any issue this may cause?
    Last edited by lcanela; 12-12-2018 at 04:51 AM.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by commandercool View Post
    3. Another suggestion is to do the movement instead of the summon under:

    Phantom. During your Movement Phase, you may move this Phantom under a FK Unit you control or out from under a Unit. When this Phantom is under a Unit, that Unit has an Attack Value of 2 and ignores other Attack Bonuses.
    This is the version I also thought about. it's the best version, as it has synergy with Ritual and Helkar (you move the phantom off after movement for assassination options with Ritual and move the phantom ON Helkar when helkar gives the bonus to a cultist). Further, the movement cost, card cost and possible piniata effect justifies the added AV you reach.

    I don't think augurs will be too good with them, as they become a 2/2 for 1 magic (2 card investment) while handing out 2 magic on a kill. Further they rival with strong alternatives in each deck that can be raised by a low magic cost or are generally very strong (raised warlocks, reanimated 2-3 cost units, harbinger). Therefore, the clause with the "a 1 AV unit" can go and it becomes much more elegant. Further, units (even your summoner) can be used to "transport" the phantoms, to gain some additional reach.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwalker View Post
    This is the version I also thought about. it's the best version, as it has synergy with Ritual and Helkar (you move the phantom off after movement for assassination options with Ritual and move the phantom ON Helkar when helkar gives the bonus to a cultist). Further, the movement cost, card cost and possible piniata effect justifies the added AV you reach.

    I don't think augurs will be too good with them, as they become a 2/2 for 1 magic (2 card investment) while handing out 2 magic on a kill. Further they rival with strong alternatives in each deck that can be raised by a low magic cost or are generally very strong (raised warlocks, reanimated 2-3 cost units, harbinger). Therefore, the clause with the "a 1 AV unit" can go and it becomes much more elegant. Further, units (even your summoner) can be used to "transport" the phantoms, to gain some additional reach.
    I like it except for not helping the reapers. Summoning under reapers would be nice

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcanela View Post
    I like it except for not helping the reapers. Summoning under reapers would be nice
    Agreed. Don't fear the reaper (or giving bonuses to the reaper anyway. )
    Shard the Void Mutant in The Dance of Devils
    Nicholas the Honor Guard in Light's Corruption
    Talu the REAL TWIN in The Ice Wedding

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcanela View Post
    I like it except for not helping the reapers. Summoning under reapers would be nice
    thing is the summoning + moving off would be way too much for a 0 cost unit. It basically means you can also use them for summon unit, summon below and move + move off the same unit on the same turn. That's really strong especially for Siran and his many ways to summon on specific spots - I don't want to give a common 0 cost unit that much impact.

    The reaper has no cap so removing the "no bonus part" could also get pretty wild, especially with multiple Phantoms. The ability of the phantoms to move OFF a unit is however quite a cool feature IMO. You can attack and then eat the phantom with your reaper, then rinse repeat. Further, once the reaper ate another unit, the phantom can move away to avoid a huge piniata effect or try to kill the reaper off after the reaper's attack.

    It's true that augurs and FP cultists would profit the most, but for Skelettal archers and reaper its also quite useful. For Zombis and Reaver it's coom but not too crazy.

    @summoning: Don't forget that Ret's raise and Sirian's reanimate is NOT summoning, same as infect. You would need to use place, which could create a whole lot of problems.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwalker View Post
    thing is the summoning + moving off would be way too much for a 0 cost unit. It basically means you can also use them for summon unit, summon below and move + move off the same unit on the same turn. That's really strong especially for Siran and his many ways to summon on specific spots - I don't want to give a common 0 cost unit that much impact.

    The reaper has no cap so removing the "no bonus part" could also get pretty wild, especially with multiple Phantoms. The ability of the phantoms to move OFF a unit is however quite a cool feature IMO. You can attack and then eat the phantom with your reaper, then rinse repeat. Further, once the reaper ate another unit, the phantom can move away to avoid a huge piniata effect or try to kill the reaper off after the reaper's attack.

    It's true that augurs and FP cultists would profit the most, but for Skelettal archers and reaper its also quite useful. For Zombis and Reaver it's coom but not too crazy.

    @summoning: Don't forget that Ret's raise and Sirian's reanimate is NOT summoning, same as infect. You would need to use place, which could create a whole lot of problems.
    To compensate we could make phanom.'s AV 0, so itg would only add to other units when under. but they can be summoned under reapers...

    I am only thinking about summoning, not placing or any other way to place them on the board... ideally I am thinking to send a reaper to attack, but only in the turn when he will be able to, summon a phantom under him. if their attack is 0 it does not matter if they can be summoned and move because they would only work when there is another unit (non-phantom?) to attack.

  7. #247
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    Jwalker, I think you make them too weak. I’d make them 0 AV and allow them to move during the attack phase instead of attacking. They are a piņata while under units and a sitting duck when not.

  8. #248
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    I think what jwalker meant was:

    Phantom. During your Movement Phase, you may move this Phantom under a FK Unit you control with an Attack Value less than 2 or out from under a Unit. When this Phantom is under a Unit, Add 1 to that Unit's Attack Value.

    - This allows for FP Cultist + Helkar synergy. This is a good result. It will make the FP Cultist more played but isn't really an increase in power over the other available units, just another viable option.

    - The only thing that's lost is that they don't work with Zombies placed on Battlefield as result of Infect. I think you either choose between: (1) letting them work with infected ZW; or (2) letting them be able to move out from under a host. I'd rather have them be able to move out from under a host than work with ZW as it becomes more likely you'll use them. Also the ZW thing I think means the unit has absolutely no value if you wanted to raise them unless you make ability a bit too complicated

    - @NBurghardt, I'm ok with this bc point wasn't to give FK another all-around good tool, but something niche. I think this does that. They at least become interesting with: Ret's starting units, Dark Sacrifice, Augurs (if you wanted to do that), Reavers (maybe viable in iElien), Helkar (nice!), Corpse Wyrm, FK Cultist, and to be carried on other units and then jump off of them.

    Of all of these, the higher health Helkar, Corpse Wyrm, and FK Cultist are relatively unlikely to be pinatas because you can just move the Phantom out from under those units before that unit dies. And I think the being "carried" by other units is interesting in Sirian assassination. Yes, they suck on their own, but they're not meant to fight on their own. I think all of these would be legit uses.

  9. #249
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    I think i solved the reaper problem


    Phantom. During your Movement Phase, you may move this Phantom under a FK Unit you control. When this Phantom is under a Unit with an Attack value of one or lower, add 1 to that Unit's Attack Value.

    Now this allows to move Phantoms also below elut or Skull but then they do nothing. However, in future turns you can move them Off for flanking/assassination. We still have the synergy with all the 1 AV units as described above but a reaper actually gets 3 AV after the first kill.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwalker View Post
    I think i solved the reaper problem


    Phantom. This Phantom may move under or or out from under a FK Unit you control. When this Phantom is under a Unit with an Attack value of 1 or less, add 1 to that Unit's Attack Value.

    Now this allows to move Phantoms also below elut or Skull but then they do nothing. However, in future turns you can move them Off for flanking/assassination. We still have the synergy with all the 1 AV units as described above but a reaper actually gets 3 AV after the first kill.
    Ah, I missed that Reaper problem. (I added "out from under" language to jwalker's quoted language.) The issue with this version is that there's no synergy with FP Cultist + Helkar.

    A version without the issue of being unable to move the Phantom out from under a Unit that has an AV of 2+

    PhantomThis Phantom may move under Fallen Kingdom Units you control with an Attack Value of 1 and may move out from underneath Units. When this Phantom is under a Unit, add 1 to that Unit's Attack Value.

    Another version that may be even MORE interesting:

    Phantom. 1/1/1. This Phantom may move under Fallen Kingdom Common Units you control with an Attack Value of 1 or less. When this Phantom is under a Unit, add this Phantom's Life and Attack Value to that Unit, and this Phantom may move out from under that Unit.
    - Loses Helkar and Corpse Wyrm interaction. I don't care about the Helkar loss but might care about the Corpse Wyrm loss.
    - Means Augurs could be a 1/3; Reavers a 2/3; FP Cultist and Reapers a 2/4; and Zombie Warriors, Reavers, and Skeletal Archers. This is too much for a 0 cost unit but probably ok for a 1 cost unit.
    - I like the implications: a common buff that doesn't help already good units (Augur) but helps underused/bad units (Reavers, FP Cultist, ZW, Reapers, and Skeletal Archer).
    - The extra health it adds means those units are less likely to be a one-turn Pinatas (i.e. killed on opponent turn), especially true for Reaper. So they may survive to your turn when you can Dark Sacrifice them.
    - The one magic cost of the Phantom versus posisbility pinanta might live to next turn gives you interesting choices.
    Last edited by commandercool; 12-15-2018 at 07:20 PM.

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