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Thread: Fighting the dice, a easy and effective way to compensate for dice luck?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcanela View Post
    How about this:

    Every time you roll a 1 you draw a token.

    Every time you roll a 2 you can use a token to make it a HIT.

    Every time you roll perfect dice you discard a token. (Maybe only when you roll more than 1 die)

    Good?
    That will help randomly and Not only Bad series
    Attack with malvolance: 6 6 3 1 -> Draw a token, attack with mundol 3 5 1 -> Draw a token, attack with Magic Pulse for 10 av: 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 2 2 -> reroll both 2 with the token -> laugh about the help on an already awesome turn.

  2. #12
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    jwalker and I are currently discussing a non-card, non-token solution. He's proposed (my wording):

    "Whenever you roll 5+ Attack Dice dice on a turn and roll more Misses than Hits or no Misses, re-roll one die in your last attack. You must keep the second die result."

    We got to this point bc I argued for a simple and fast rule and jwalker (in my opinion rightly) argued for a rule with minimal affect on the meta. I think that it's a solid start. (Keep in mind that some of the early formulations that anyone has had in this community to fix a problem weren't perfect. Even Waterd's inevitability rule which we've refined for pace of play and to incorporate some interactions that didn't disarm the inevitability rule.) It affects only those extreme situations where you seem to miss everything. A flaw he identified is that it does nothing when you have just Lioneer/Xaserbane that goes 0/3 on enemy summoner. Another flaw is that you need to throw at least 5 dice. But these are tradeoffs for speed and simplicity. The thing is, I think I do like better the affect of jwalker's original post, but I dislike the time and counters it adds to the game.

    For the sake of simplicity, I think the rule can only look at the specific attack phase at hand. If it requires you to start counting several turns (in head--forget about it--or with markers) then it slows things down over the course of a game, and SW already has enough pace of play problems.


    My best current idea: Once per turn after attacking with a Unit, if you rolled more Misses than Hits during this turn, you may re-roll 1 die result. You must keep your second result and end your Attack Phase.

    Notes:
    - Can't trigger on a good turn--your turn was bad so far bc you rolled more Misses than Hits, and your turn can't become good bc you have to end turn after re-rolling 1 die which means the best your turn can be is 1 more hit.
    - Can trigger even when you don't throw 5 dice which means when you don't have super high AV unit or unit combo, it can trigger if you only attack w/1 Unit.
    - No counters/fast/simple
    - Stronger normalization than 5+ dice formulation
    - Triggers in situations when Lioneer/Xaserbane goes 0/3 or even 1/3. But in both situations, your aggregate rolls have to have more misses OR you have to forego further attacks on your turn.
    - Kind of nice on 1AV units. But it's a big disadvantage if only AV you attack with is 1AV unit. So noone's going to do this unless end game or assassination shot w/1 AV Unit. But this is ok bc assassination is NOT a strong strategy. And it speeds up end game! End game slowness has been/is another legitimate pace of play concern with SW
    - Doesn't worsen crazy good luck
    Last edited by commandercool; 09-14-2017 at 11:34 PM.

  3. #13
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    When you roll one die, and you miss, you have gotten more misses than hits. Do you re roll that one die?

  4. #14
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    You may, but if you re-roll that, you have to end your attack phase. I'm not sure if this is a problem. If so, it can be re-worded, "if you have rolled at least 2 dice and have rolled more misses than hits." The 1AV units re-rolling feels a little like a loophole. But then you miss out at the end game that a 1AV unit can never trigger it on its own. But maybe that's ok
    Last edited by commandercool; 09-15-2017 at 08:03 AM.

  5. #15
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    Gotta say, I don't even slightly understand you guys having a problem with normal variance in a game of quantifiable probability.

    Is it that you want to be able to declare that one player is better than another after a single game result? I don't feel the need.

  6. #16
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    Yes, I've said many times that to me the dice is like a very low problem to me, though its still a problem, but it really shuts down a lot of players.

  7. #17
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    Waterd, have always respected your opinion: do you have any ideas on an anti-dice variance rule?

  8. #18
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    I really don't have any ideas for this that i like.

  9. #19
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    I think on average over the last few weeks my dice in all games have been the worst they have ever been, and it is very frustrating. But if I try to look past these recent results and judge it without a bias, I agree with Waterd and Gojaejin that they do balance out over the long haul and so I'm fine with how they work in this game. Like Gojaelin said, you shouldn't judge skill on one match, because of all the variables. In tourney setting, best of 3 or 5 series is a better way to even out the dice and card draw.

    Waterd's SW 2.0 thread; if I were going to reboot this game, I don't think I'd really change much of anything. You could make it 2 or higher is a hit, but I also think that if you created 10 or 16 brand new factions, events, units, summoners, and kept all the rules of SW the same; knowing what we do now you could make this game perfect. It's just a lot of work.

  10. #20
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    The problem is that I don't like the it'll all even out over course of bo3 or bo5. That's not good enough for non-electronic play, casual or tournaments, but especially tournaments.

    In terms of casual, you want to have best experience in a small amount of time--you want to have best time you can and if you don't then you go do something instead of playing SW. Dice can ruin that experience.

    In terms of non electronic tournament, unless you stretch tournament over several days--which is huge commitment in and of itself, you force people to play several rounds of bo3 or whatnot just to advance to next round, which is also a huge commitment.

    So my complaint here--though I've complained elsewhere about affect on winning--is that dice are just a big barrier to gameplay, keeping people away from casual play and tournament play
    Last edited by commandercool; 09-18-2017 at 01:36 PM.

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