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Thread: Fighting the dice, a easy and effective way to compensate for dice luck?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Default Fighting the dice, a easy and effective way to compensate for dice luck?

    Hey guys,
    this is a ever coming complain in this game - the dice distribution. Now I'm one of those people that think often the dice even out over time but unfortunately some games are just flawed by it. I will start with some theories and then present my rather simple system to lower (not remove) dice luck discrepancy between two players. I also present some alternative/extended systems, so I'd be happy to get some feedback.

    Theory
    1) 66% of dice should show up as a hit. However as long as the dice do not show less than 55% (more than half) or not more than 80% (4 out of 5) hits, the game is rather less effected by dice and rather by strategy, positioning and event use.

    2) One player having a below average hit rate (less than 50%) is worse than one having a too high hit rate. This is mainly because of the magic mechanic. One plans for an average turn and gets shafted while if you suddenly hit everything, often some dice are lost and cannot use. For example you swarmed the opponent champ with 3 units and after the first two attacks the champ is gone, but the third unit cannot use hit attack on something else

    3) A dice mechanic must be very simple, otherwise it slows down the game.

    Solution: The dice counter
    1] Mechanic to ensure enough hits

    1.1) Every time a player rolls one or more dice in a single roll and hits with less than half the dice he draws a dice counter.
    1.2) Every time a player rolls one or more dice in a single roll and hits with less than half the dice he may discard 3 dice counter to reroll that roll - use either result to determine wound marker.

    Now this system is rather simple and also specifically targets the "unexpected" rolls in this game. Note how you always get a counter on a missed 1 AV dice, but 1od2 is fine. 2of4 is also fine, as you should plan for it, but a 1of4 is already rather unlucky and you get your counter. As you can only play the reroll on a "bad" roll, you cannot just save them up for some super Rukkar/MagicPulse or whatever turns

    2] Mechanic to account for above average hits
    Now we do not account for 2 bad attacks and one really good one in a round. This line is targeting specifically this case
    2.1) Every time a player rolls 3 or more dice in a single roll or 2 or more consecutive rolls during a turn and not a single miss is rolled, discard a dice counter.
    2.2) If you need to discard a dice counter but don't have one, your opponent can draw a dice counter

    This mechanic makes sure good rolls cancels out bad rolls. For example is you have a 3 AV champ and 2x 2AV commons and roll 1of2, 0of2 and 3on3 you will draw one counter (cause you went 0of2) and discard one (cause you went 3of3). If you roll 1of3 and then 2of2 and 2of2 you will also draw one (1of3) but then discard it immediately (consecutive 2x 2on2 = 4of4).

    3] variants
    Now I know the system above is only making sure everyone is hitting better and therefore will increase the overall damage in the game. However for simplicity I see this as the most applicable solution. If you also want to make sure not too many good rolls happen than you can use this varriant

    3.1) change 2.2) If you need to discard a dice counter but don't have one, draw a negative dice counter
    3.2) add 2.3) Every time a player rolls 3 or more dice in a single roll or 2 or more consecutive rolls during a turn and not a single miss is rolled, if this player has 3 negative dice counter, immediately reroll the last roll.

    thoughts?

  2. #2
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    I already suggested a Reroll mechanic in another thread.

    However, why not just giving a set number of free rerolls per turn?

    For example, each player has 1 free Reroll during their turn, or, 1 free Reroll during each turn (thus, including an opponent's turn).

    Or, you may reroll whenever you want, but you have to spend magic to do so (additionally, you can only reroll a given die once per Unit, so no 2+ consecutive rerolls of the same die).

    You may also rule that the rerolling can only be applied on attack dice. Or it may be applied whenever you roll any die (imagine it as if each player had 1+ uses of the Stink's Ability, being it for free or with a cost).

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khayzhard View Post
    I already suggested a Reroll mechanic in another thread.

    However, why not just giving a set number of free rerolls per turn?

    For example, each player has 1 free Reroll during their turn, or, 1 free Reroll during each turn (thus, including an opponent's turn).

    Or, you may reroll whenever you want, but you have to spend magic to do so (additionally, you can only reroll a given die once per Unit, so no 2+ consecutive rerolls of the same die).

    You may also rule that the rerolling can only be applied on attack dice. Or it may be applied whenever you roll any die (imagine it as if each player had 1+ uses of the Stink's Ability, being it for free or with a cost).
    cause I only want rerolls IF the dice are flawed AND IF the dice roll is bad.

  4. #4
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    I'm not crazy experienced or anything, but it seems to me that I've only ever seen about 1 game (in about 250) that the dice were consistently, hugely, favored to one side.

    I think the issue is more "critical" attack misses and hits. Every time you attack the summoner, it's critical. Hits are huge, misses are huge. It's far more common to win/lose a game because 1 turn had a bad roll. I also think the better you are, the less that seems to happen.

    Example: I lost a tourney game not long ago because I couldn't kill a 1 health SE hunter with 3 dice. So I lost the next turn when another unit was summoned next to it, and my 1 health summoner didn't survive. If I had killed that one unit, I would've had a very good chance at winning the game. -it's my lesser skill that left my summoner with only 1 health at that point.

  5. #5
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    That's why I used a relative soft mechanic, that only really kicks in with extreme miss or hit rate.

    I had games where I needed 22 Dice to kill a Valentina (no heals), more than 14 dice on a 7 life Leah (one heal) and then couldn't kill Sera with 13 dice - all in one game. I still won, but then ofc my opponent was way worse as a player.

    Once it only gets semi competitive and you are maybe even in an less favorable match-up then dice do make a difference if they are not distributed in "at least acceptable range" of 55-80% average. I see myself using this tool in the play test games, where we need relatively even dice distribution to get a feeling how well the decks performed.

  6. #6
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    There's always the cards method to replace the dice. You take only the 1s through 6s from a deck of cards; one set per player. Draw a card per die rolled and reshuffle when empty. It gives an even distribution of dice values every 24 "rolls".

  7. #7
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    I think the cards are my favorite. They really don't slow anything down either. Also you can do "stack" or "stack 3" or whatever term, to stabilize the distributions.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nburghardt View Post
    There's always the cards method to replace the dice. You take only the 1s through 6s from a deck of cards; one set per player. Draw a card per die rolled and reshuffle when empty. It gives an even distribution of dice values every 24 "rolls".
    While a viable option it is a bit troublesome if you know you can't roll any bad dice anymore, once you already missed 10x vs. that wall or you know you should better use some attacks on your walls to get these misses out. It has been debated before and this was the main reason some people didn't like it so much.

    I personally am ok with dice, as they allow player to win vs. more experienced players or create very interesting moments. However a lot of people complain about dice luck and it also is sometimes annoying in our play test games. In the end some games weren't meaningful test data cause one player clearly went much below or the other rolled nearly all hits.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwalker View Post
    While a viable option it is a bit troublesome if you know you can't roll any bad dice anymore, once you already missed 10x vs. that wall or you know you should better use some attacks on your walls to get these misses out. It has been debated before and this was the main reason some people didn't like it so much.

    I personally am ok with dice, as they allow player to win vs. more experienced players or create very interesting moments. However a lot of people complain about dice luck and it also is sometimes annoying in our play test games. In the end some games weren't meaningful test data cause one player clearly went much below or the other rolled nearly all hits.
    I agree, if a pattern emerges, it can be gamed, but I'd suspect the opportunity and results are inconsistent. To be clear, I don't have issue with the dice either; I just made the card method suggestion as it is often perceived positively by dice haters.

  10. #10
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    How about this:

    Every time you roll a 1 you draw a token.

    Every time you roll a 2 you can use a token to make it a HIT.

    Every time you roll perfect dice you discard a token. (Maybe only when you roll more than 1 die)

    Good?

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