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Thread: Summoner wars 2.0

  1. #11
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    Ive tried many forms of the "trigger event" and never could make it quite work well. It seems you need to base your whole game around that or can't really have it.

  2. #12
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    Something that maybe i should clarify, I think its a probelm with summoner wars that summonig points are so fixed. I prefer walls to be more "moving" or more flexible, kind of like torgan and swamp orcs are. I prefer maybe walls to be mroe volatile, but where they are be more changing during the game. I'm not sure exactly the best way to accomplish this though.
    ive considered that each faction have their own summoning system.

    For example, one would have the system that is now, other can only summoner from summoners, another will summon from any unit, another will have the Vine wall system, another the ice wall system, another can summon from any row they control...not sure.
    Last edited by Waterd; 09-11-2017 at 08:53 PM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    Something that maybe i should clarify, I think its a probelm with summoner wars that summonig points are so fixed. I prefer walls to be more "moving" or more flexible, kind of like torgan and swamp orcs are. I prefer maybe walls to be mroe volatile, but where they are be more changing during the game. I'm not sure exactly the best way to accomplish this though.
    ive considered that each faction have their own summoning system.
    I think it's part of what makes offense so difficult for so many factions. Love your idea for each faction to have own summoning system. There are already several in game:
    - Ret
    - Torgan
    - VWs, but esp Natazga and Glurblub
    - Rallul (moves em around, Stone Golem, gets em from discard pile)
    - Melundak
    - Filth
    - Hogar Ice Golem

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    Something that maybe i should clarify, I think its a probelm with summoner wars that summonig points are so fixed. I prefer walls to be more "moving" or more flexible, kind of like torgan and swamp orcs are. I prefer maybe walls to be mroe volatile, but where they are be more changing during the game. I'm not sure exactly the best way to accomplish this though.
    ive considered that each faction have their own summoning system.

    For example, one would have the system that is now, other can only summoner from summoners, another will summon from any unit, another will have the Vine wall system, another the ice wall system, another can summon from any row they control...not sure.
    A few ideas, sorted from the more conservative ones to the more radical ones (for simplicity of exposition, let me use the term "Stone Walls" in lieu of "Walls with 9 starting LPs" (I already use it in my wordings):


    1) keep the operation of the Stone Walls as it is now (that is, they are static summoning points), but add one of the following variants:

    a) Extending the summoning area: that is, 1/turn, during your Summon Phase, before summoning a Unit, you may increase its Cost by 1 (or by 2?, or by 0 or 1 for Commons and by 1 or 2 for Champions?, etc.) to summon that Unit within 2 spaces (or 3 spaces?) of a Stone Wall that you control (note that, in this way, I'm voluntarily removing "minor" Walls from this variant);

    b) as a), but include minor Walls (that is, if you spend Magic, you may summon "within 2 spaces of any Wall that you control");

    c) as a), but remove the "Summon Phase" limitation;

    d) as a), but remove the "1/turn" limitation.

    Note that you may combine a) to d) as you want.


    2) bc you are designing a 2.0 version of SW, you may think to remove the idea of Stone Walls as summoning points and instead state that the basic summoning rule is that a player may normally summoning Units within 2 spaces of their Summoner (or 3 spaces?).

    What are the consequences?
    First of all, this variant gives you a bit of flexibility, bc your summoning capacity depends from the position of your Summoner on the BF. It also should encourage a bit of aggression and give more thrill, bc you have to advance and expose your Summoner to summon in your opponent's territory.

    Second. Assuming the "within 2-spaces of your Summoner" as the base rule, you have room to design variants:

    a) you may have a card (an Event, or a Summoner's / Champ's / Common's Ability) allowing you to spend 1 Magic to summon within 3 spaces of your Summoner (or within X spaces of a Champ / Common);

    b) if you instead rule that you may already spend 1 Magic to summon within 3 spaces of your Summoner, you may have a card that allow you to do it for free (or within X spaces of a Champ / Common).

    Third. Stone Walls, in this variant, are just "protective cards". So, you may think to:

    a) remove the Wall from the setup (it is no longer necessary to summon), or you may keep it for some factions as theme / protection (Guild Dwarves? Little Meda? Elien?);

    b) remove the 2 Walls from the Summoner's Events and replace them with other Events (again, you may keep them in some factions as theme / protection);

    c) include the Stone Walls only in 1 faction, let's say the GD, using them as a furhter different "summoning mechanic" (just like TO with the Ice Walls and SO with the Vine Walls); in this case you may give fewer LPs to Stone Walls, or you may keep them with 9 LPs and include only 1 or 2 copies among the Summoner's Events, etc (there are many possibilities).
    Last edited by Khayzhard; 09-12-2017 at 04:27 AM.

  5. #15
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    What if stone walls could be moved like clingers via summoners? It would reward aggressive summoners and create interesting tactical play. Two restrictions I'd consider are no stone walls can be placed adjacent to an edge of the board and no stone wall may be placed adjacent or diaganol to a friendly stone wall. The restrictions are to reduce overly defensive play.

  6. #16
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    That's pretty fascinating. Maybe not a bad idea. I think it would have to be restricted to movement during movement phase, when summoner moves up to 2 spaces. Otherwise, NN+Cheetah, etc.

  7. #17
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    Another idea I was thinking about was moving them a space when destroying an enemy unit or more thematically when you wound one with an attack. Perhaps you can move an enemy wall that way but not your own. Maybe make the wall move(s) occur at the end of the turn if it gets too chaotic mid attack phase. Just kicking around ideas. I'm imagining these as forcefield-like portals more than walls if they get moved around.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by commandercool View Post
    That's pretty fascinating. Maybe not a bad idea. I think it would have to be restricted to movement during movement phase, when summoner moves up to 2 spaces. Otherwise, NN+Cheetah, etc.
    I agree though could still get a little crazy with Moyra copying a Cavalry Knight. As long as it feels tactical and not too imbalanced with offensive play I'd welcome it.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    1.Units no longer go to magic pile when destroyed
    Several thoughts on the "not giving magic".

    Assuming we go 'minimal' and summon 3 champs (@6 magic each), 3 walls (@1 magic each), and 6 events, you're spending 21 magic ... If you drop all your commons and 3 events into your discard you only have 18 magic (not including the bonus). You need more from somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by commandercool View Post
    Waterd: did you consider in this meta where units don't give magic, that economy comes from attacking enemy cards? For example, the magic is triggered on attacking enemy card (wall or unit) instead of just wall? It seems people found finding magic walls to be a fun mechanic, and in world where units don't give magic, you need to supplement economy somehow, and this is more intersting than just building greater economy into event cards. Some abilities would be maybe OP here, such as Jexik+Sniper (who cares, it'd be a redesign anyway), or Maldaria, i.e. any of the 3 hit and run summoners.
    There are some issues with this, doesn't gifting magic from attacking create the same problem as counting destroyed units as magic? (You'd still want to keep as few units as possible off the map).

    I agree that building economy into events isn't ideal (relying on draw to be able to afford anything more than a champion is bad).

    What about these ideas:

    A) Champs and Walls give 1 magic to opponent when destroyed.

    B) All commons (and all champs as well??) cost 1 less

  10. #20
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    My group really wants me to start doing SW 2.0.
    What would be more interested YOU in playing, I want opinions vote, personal opinions on what are more likely for you to try.

    A) Change 15% of SW cards + Several rule changes
    B) New SW from scratch, probably extremely similar

    In either case it's not my interest to publish the game, mostly to make it available through Tabletop/Vassal/Nandeck.

    In both cases the endgame result is extremely similar as a game.
    With option A) I will restrict myself to make extremely similar decks to SW and maybe a little more on the system, in exchange with SW you will have 80% of the game and you will have to print
    in the other 20% and most tools for SW will be usefull and will preserve a lot of SW things. Also I probably will finisher faster more product, My ETA would be around January 2020
    B) I will probably use SW assets but will use more freedom to do my own factionjs and rules, though the final game will probably be Mostly Summoner wars. The whole thing must be printed from scratch And I would take more time to finish I would say ETA January 2021
    Last edited by Waterd; 04-24-2018 at 09:14 PM.

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