Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: Advanced Gameplay Rule Clarifications

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    454

    Default Advanced Gameplay Rule Clarifications

    This thread is dedicated to those rules that you know you've heard the answer to at some point in the Question Dump or elsewhere, but you can never quite remember what the answer was. I'll slowly chip away at filling this out a bit, but just thought I would get it started. It is going to be really random and unorganised at first. If all the really experienced players want to help out by posting anything that would fit in this thread or anything I have wrong, that would be appreciated. I'll add everything into a list and try to sort it by faction as best I can.

    I'm going to start with one that Gojaejin clarified for me last night.

    Mountain Vargath:
    Storm Mage: 1) can you use Call Lightning against Lukestor? - Yes. Reason: When units "can't attack" they can't use "instead of attacking" abilities, but when the enemy "can't be attacked", the unit can still use their attack activation in the form of an "instead of attacking" ability.
    2) can you use Call Lightning after moving adjacent to Horror Mutant? - No. Reason: Horror Mutant takes away the Storm Mage's attack activation, so "instead of attacking" can't be used.
    3) can you use Call Lightning after playing Onslaught? - Yes
    4) can you use Call Lightning after using Order from a Commander? - No. Reason: Read the last line of the Order ability.

    Tundra Guild:
    Ice Golem: 1) Can a Cherubim move through an Ice Golem that has an event card under it? - Yes
    2) Can a Filth Zealot attack an Ice Golem that has an event card under it? - No

    Swamp Orcs:
    Vine Wall: 1) Can a unit that can move through cards (Flight) move through a space occupied by another unit and a Vine Wall? - No. Reason: A unit can't move through a space where there is a possibility of it's movement ending but it is against the rules for it to end its movement there. (???)

    Shadow Elves:
    Vanquish: Can Vanquish be played successfully after an attack from a unit with Precise? - No and Yes. Reason: No dice were rolled, so Precise works, but the Precise unit is still returned to the controller's hand.
    Revenge: Does Revenge interrupt a Beserker's Assault? - Yes.
    Shadow Warrior: 1) Can you use Blood Step while Engaged by a GD Defender? - Yes. Reason: The Blood Step ability begins before the Move activation.

    Sand Goblins:
    Javelineer: 1) If Violet attacks through a non-adjacent Javelineer by targeting another unit, is the Javelineer affected by the attack? - No.
    2) Can a non-adjacent Javelineer be damaged by Hammer Quake? - No.

    Cloaks:
    Spy: How does Spy work when your opponent has only 4 cards left in their Draw Pile? - Place 2 cards on the bottom and 2 cards on the top of their Draw Pile. You don't get to discard any cards.
    Last edited by KBurg7; 08-30-2017 at 04:48 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    454

    Default

    (Reserved)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Poland, Warsaw
    Posts
    1,042

    Default

    "2) can you use Call Lightning after moving adjacent to Horror Mutant? - No. Reason: Horror Mutant takes away the Storm Mage's attack activation, so "instead of attacking" can't be used."

    I just want to remind that it's possible on the App. Probably a bug.
    Game Center ID: Nadhir 99

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,429

    Default

    I'm pretty sure the app is correct, Horror mutant doesnt take away "anyeone attack activation". Instead of attacking can be used when attacking, because..well it's not ATTACKING is something INSTEAD of attacking.
    I don't knwo where Kburg got his idea.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    454

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    I'm pretty sure the app is correct, Horror mutant doesnt take away "anyeone attack activation". Instead of attacking can be used when attacking, because..well it's not ATTACKING is something INSTEAD of attacking.
    I don't knwo where Kburg got his idea.
    Haha, Waterd I guess you have changed your mind since March! Read page 258 of the question dump where people are asking about this stuff.

    Here is what you said on the question dump thread: To me it makes more sense if "instead of attacking" and instead of moving, uses attacks and moves, adn thus preventable by abilities that do not allow you to attack or move.
    If it's instead of attacking, is something that you are doing replacing the attack, but you can't do instead of attacking actions if you can't attack.
    Your argument is like me saying that if i attacked 3 times already i can still do "instead of attack" abilities because well, I'm not attacking.
    Instead of attacking to me it means that you do it, under all the same conditions that attack is allowed, but instead of doign the standard actions of rolling dice for damage, you do X.
    So I strongly disagree you should be able to hellfire when stuned. or be able to use instead of moving actions when engaged.


    Followed by what Killercactus said:
    I should be clear:

    The current ruling about "instead of X"s is that they can't be used if you can't do the original action. I happen to not agree with that anymore, but that's the current ruling. I'm not changing it. For it to work this way, I feel that ENGAGE should have to say "Units adjacent to this Defender cannot be moved or use abilities instead of moving." I think its cleaner and simpler, and makes more sense based on how the cards are worded. When a Rune Mage uses SIPHON, its not moving, its using an ability. "Instead of X" just tells you at what point during a turn you're allowed to use this ability, which in this case is during one of the allotted 3 movement activations and, if you do this, you can't also move during that activation.

    Anyway though it doesn't matter - I'm not changing that ruling now. It's been around for a while and people seem to think it makes sense, even though I think it makes more sense to say "Is SIPHON a move? No - therefore ENGAGE doesn't prevent it."

    I do however think though that "Before X" is different than "instead of X" and should still be allowed even if you can't do X. BLOOD STEP vs a Defender is actually good reasoning for this. It would feel really stupid to me if a Shadow Warrior adjacent to nothing couldn't use BLOOD STEP to jump to a space that is adjacent to a Defender because it wouldn't be able to subsequently move. That's just silly.

    "After X" to me requires that you've actually done X.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,429

    Default

    You are right and I'm wrong. Not sure why i changed my mind. But I know for now thats how i percieved things.
    Last edited by Waterd; 08-25-2017 at 12:48 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,381

    Default

    I'm a bit surprised as I was 100% the ruling was like in the app - all horror does is it prevents you from doing an attack but you still can clarify the unit to use it's ability (which eats up one of your attacks). If KC stated it like above, then actually this was a rule CHANGE and not how it was original written and played! Overall I'm not sure it's good for the game if we allow instead of attacking ability to work like this, as some of the most anoying stuff can only be countered by these ability.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,429

    Default

    I think the mayor reason to make it work as its now, is that otherwise cavalry knights should be able to move out of defenders and decievers, that would be stupid.

  9. #9
    killercactus is offline SW App Champion Summer 2015, but still do what he says.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    6,309

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    I think the mayor reason to make it work as its now, is that otherwise cavalry knights should be able to move out of defenders and decievers, that would be stupid.
    Not true actually. RIDER says "Instead of moving NORMALLY". That's different than "Instead of moving". "Instead of moving normally" is still moving, regardless.
    Latest Customs - KC's Customs

    I need to update this signature. While I do that, go listen to A Doug's Guide to Summoner Wars - the podcast!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    454

    Default

    This is exactly why we need this thread! Haha! There are so many wordy rules in this game that have been discussed like crazy and strong arguments presented for multiple sides, and then everyone forgets the verdict. If anyone has any others that should be added to this list, please let me know. I still have a few to add once I get a bit of time today.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •