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Thread: New Torgan v. Elien

  1. #1
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    Default New Torgan v. Elien

    Highly likely an utterly broken matchup in Torgan's favor.

    jwalker and I played 3 of these matchups today and each time, there was nothing Elien could do.

    Last chance is to play:
    - 5x Fire Beast, 5x FP Warrior, 4x PE Warrior
    - Holleas, Kaebeeros/Maelana, Fire Drake.

    You might think, oh wow, what a bad deckbuild. Trust me, we tried basically everything else. Champs need to be cheap--even Fire Drake can be a stretch. Commons need to be beefy. Elien needs to summon a lot of commons here. Give it a spin if you don't believe me.

  2. #2
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    Ah think you are overstating. We played a slightly modified Version of torgan and yes i could pull 3-0. However one game i wouldn't have won without the changes. The other two i had a fantastic draw with surge and shift First hand and decent trample rolls (at least 50%). I'd See this game AS slightly in favor for torgan but extremely draw dependent.

    Just be aware if you play Elein nowadays, that if you face torgan you will loose some games without a chance if dice and draw for torgan is perfect (super early Double shift + invader + for glory, with lucky dice for trample to get Magic for invader can happen turn 2)

    Ok now I'm home and will add a bit to the 3 matches

    Mods to Torgan:
    -Torgan can use his ice wall ability at any time during his turn till his attack phase starts (so before summoning - didn't happen so far, during event phase - 80% and after moving 20%). This adds quite an awesome swarming ability to torgan, as you can much easier crowd the opponent walls.
    -We also removed one ice armor and added one for glory. In game 1 and 3 i drew both events at the same time and rather late. So i only played one and builded the other. In game 2 it was a big help!
    -We also changed IceGolens to have 2 AV if they have a card below - again this was only played once and in game 2. So game 1+3 is 95% original Torgan, but the 5% allowed me to swarm the walls a bit easier and remain at the front with my torgan (spreading ice walls not fighting).

    Game1: Marched forward and got early wounds from warriors. I got an early surge and used torgans ability to move 3 walls early + invader that went 0of2 + a forward wall on the very right. Well cool removed my invader and 1 ice wall. I was building a lot, kept on pressing with Torgan and used smasher to 1on1 his units. The funny thing here is that elein needs to summon a lot in order not to risk another shift + for glory to get killed. Smasher + ice armor was pretty good in this specific situation and I could keep the economy on par. Once cool responded with his walls I used another surge + shift + torgan to crowd all outside spots. My rukkar went one on one with his units (he already needed to use 2 burns to deal with my ice armor smashers) while I attacked from the south with commons. Rukkar did great and at some point he opened up and I could slip in with my heavily wounded Torgan + ice walls (only possible due to the modification) and Krom from below. In the end elein was traped in his own castle, still it was close with a 1 life torgan barely retreating from Elein.

    Game2: well cool was more careful this time and summoned a lot. I was building some magic and advanced till i got my surge + shift combo. I trampled like 2 units this way and could play invader + for glory (first one) on Elein in my turn 3 I think. Again I got an early wall and put it in the right forward position. Cool was a bit scared, cause honestly with shift + invader the reach is crazy. After this turn i was also in a great spot, as I cleared the remaining units with Torgan. Cool got 2 walls and builded a nice defensive position with a counter forward wall to mine and a wall last lane above his starting one - leaving only two openings. But I also got surge and shift again and could crowd his outside positions of his walls with my ice walls. Smasher one on one helped me a bit to force him to summon. I was lucky to kill Malena fast (5of6) and at some point we both went out of steam. He got drake out but also needed to open one spot. I used a icegolem + ice armor (with our ruling he got 2 AV), summoned an invader (was awesome, now I could surround) on him and used the second for glory to roll 8 dice on drake, hitting with 6. Same time I pushed in with Torgan and a smasher. Drake+burn made sure my units died but I could use torgan to clear the way and Krom to push elein. Went 2on2 to end the game.

    Game3: Similar as in game 1 I got surge + shift turn1 and my shooter survived. I had two early double shifts and could immediately pressure and wound elein. Cool used Kaberoos + walls to defend the right battlefield side but couldn't deal with my aggression on the left side. I could get in with an invader + for glory to finish the deal.

    I feel like I had such lucky draw in all 3 games (got 2x shift very early).In all 3 games my only 0of2 was vs. Elein. MY smasher ALWAYS killed the 1 life units. Overall I got decent rolls, escept vs. elein. Also the mods did help, especially to crowd. Both game 1 and 2 I might have lost without the changed we tested for torgan. But much much more important - the games very A LOT OF FUN for both of us. I summoned only 1 champs, once I summoned a second one in late game but it was crazy action from turn1 on. Love new Torgan with the invader and considering the minor errate changes, he's solid mid tier with probably fun level S !
    Last edited by jwalker; 05-31-2017 at 01:00 PM.

  3. #3
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    I would like to play the match, I really don't see how ellien has troubles in this matchup, barring some spectacular second turn for torgan and ellien didn' got a wall. I think ellien got this.

    Holleas, Laleya, Fire drake, 5x Fire beasts, 5x PE Warrior, 2x Fire dancer, 2x Changelings. Would be my lineup.
    Those were some insane buffs to torgan though, specially the ice golem and extra for glory.
    Last edited by Waterd; 07-27-2017 at 02:15 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    I would like to play the match, I really don't see how ellien has troubles in this matchup, barring some spectacular second turn for torgan and ellien didn' got a wall. I think ellien got this.

    Holleas, Laleya, Fire drake, 5x Fire beasts, 5x PE Warrior, 2x Fire dancer, 2x Changelings. Would be my lineup.
    Those were some insane buffs to torgan though, specially the ice golem and extra for glory.
    Ice Golem change is out, second for Glory is really helping a lot - makes the deck more reliable. I feel perfectly played it might be a slight advantage for Elein, however there are these 10% of games where Elein is just going down without any chance (double/ single shift + invader + for glory). Basically I played this very close to current Torgan, however the "at any time before your attack phase" rule helps a lot here, as swarming is a great option.

    Come to vassal when we playtest, I'd be happy to have a strong defensive player in the mix.

    In the end - we did increase the power of Torgan a bit and made him more reliable, but still you see the advantage on a summoner that is not even considered top tier - so we do not need to fear, he gets to strong after this change

  5. #5
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    jwalker and I had a long discussion about this. No errata Torgan, I think jwalker is right: Elien has advantage definitely. But errata Torgan, I think Elien has disadvantage, and goes down no chance in probably 10% of games. These games were probably outliers. But I made no mistakes, got lucky on walls, and still lost all 3. Jwalker is better player than me, but not sure how much it made difference here.
    Last edited by commandercool; 07-27-2017 at 09:49 PM.

  6. #6
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    I can agree that with the extra for glory, golem buff and super buff to torgan ability, torgan has an advantage

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by commandercool View Post
    jwalker and I had a long discussion about this. No errata Torgan, I think jwalker is right: Elien has advantage definitely. But errata Torgan, I think Elien has disadvantage, and goes down no chance in probably 10% of games. These games were probably outliers. But I made no mistakes, got lucky on walls, and still lost all 3. Jwalker is better player than me, but not sure how much it made difference here.
    When we played the games, it was always at the edge. I felt like a single 0of2 could have turned my momentum and my offensive would collapse. In general the games where crazy fun and I had shift + surge in the first two hands in all three games, that helped a lot. Commander Cool did a good job defending but my personal feeling is that this game is 40:60 without the golem boost (which is out) for Elein. However, a few games Elein just goes down to a single shift + invader + for Glory and that balances it to a 50:50.

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