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Thread: TOURNAMENT: War of the Commons

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    104

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    Probably my worst showing yet, but fun games still. Thanks to all of my opponents!

    snalgo: 0-3
    SO vs MV: loss
    TO vs PE: loss
    CL vs SG: loss

    KBurg: 0-3
    PE vs JE: loss
    CG vs DD: loss
    MV vs GD: loss

    Aargau: 1-2
    SG vs MR: loss
    JE vs MV: win
    SE vs JE: loss

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    1,350

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    my results>

    2-1 vs Orange Lazaruss

    BD vs JE Loss
    GD - TO Win
    SO vs SG WIN

    0-3 vs massimo24

    TO vs PE Loss
    MV vs JE Loss
    PE vs SO Loss

    thanks both for the games.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    239

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    Finished all my games!

    2-1 vs Orange Lazaruss

    BD vs PE WIN (was going very slow, in the end Ol resigned)
    SG vs MV LOSS
    DD vs DO (tides where turning in his favor but I got SS which allowed me to bring on a fresh wall and summon two GM)

    3-0 vs lcanela

    PE vs TO Win
    JE vs MV Win
    SO vs PE Win

    Thanks for the games!

    I like the format, but prefer to play with Champs! They add more variety, gonna try some new factions in the next round.

    @OL: Benders are even nastier to play in this format. Would consider not taking them again.
    Should be banned maybe.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Madison WI
    Posts
    1,850

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    Sweet, all the data is in now so we should be moving on to the next rounds soon.

    As for the Benders, I'll have to admit I don't get it. I mean I always though Tacullu was exceptionally annoying and I personally have always wanted to basically ban that faction from existing. But I don't really see how Tacullu is that powerful in this format.

    Sure sure, Decievers are awfully annoying. Controllers are always good. Mind Control is also very annoying. Mimic is always obnoxious. Tacullu's countersummon is annoying when units don't cost much magic to get rid of. I've no doubt Tacullu is good in this format.

    But what I fail to understand is the fact that Benders still have the crippling weakness of having just about no health and little ability to be offensive/agressive. Therefore if you play against them correctly, I think they are pretty limited in what they can do. In my mind that means you don't hold events so Tacullu can't use Mimic. Sure some factions will really suffer from this so there are a few matchups where this alone may kill you. But frankly I think most factions can afford to build them as magic against the Benders or just play them immediately. Next off don't be agressive against the Benders. Do not cross that halfway line where Tacullu can mind control you. Don't send your units towards Tacullu where he can Counter Summon. Especially don't send your units too close to the Benders where they can summon a Deciever and stun all your units where you can't then manage to summon someone to attack the Deceiver.

    Now the question is what do you do? I think it is pretty simple. You just sit as far back as you can while you shoot their walls. The Benders have little answer to this. Basically they'll be forced to watch their walls be eliminated or else they'll have to summon stuff to respond to the threat and force their units to advance. They will fail in this sort of fight because their low health will mean it is easy to summon and kill them while their relatively low attack values will also mean they struggle to kill things in return.

    Is this sort of gameplay incredibly boring and tedious? Absolutely. It takes a lot of patience to just sit there and fire upon their walls. But I'll tell you what this is pretty much exactly what I did in my matchup against Tacullu thus far and I won. Admittedly I was using SG so I had a good matchup--because Krusk's sandstorm can get you around a lot of the worst of the Deciever/Controller movement/positioning problems and the SG don't need events and they have the ranged units to make this plan work. But I personally think most factions can follow this plan and win. There are just a few who cannot.


    So, am I just crazy though? I'm really curious to see what others think. Is Tacullu really a top tier summoner in this format? My personal inclination is that he is not, he's just very annoying to face and requires changing up your playstyle and adapting far more than most of the other summoners.

    Personally if I want to talk about a summoner who should be banned in this format, I'm looking towards Mugglug. Mugglug loves tons of commons on the field as more Vine Walls is good and more targets for Ensnare are nice. Mugglug has lots of nice options for commons to summon and even has expensive but good commons to summon so he doesn't wind up with the excess magic problem. On top of that Savagers love other commons too since their ability may triggler more often.

    With that being said I actually managed to beat a Mugglug already and I still do think in some matchups Mugglug may still struggle. But personally if I'm rating the best summoner in the format I'd probably give it to Mugglug and others long before I give it to Tacullu.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixio View Post
    As for Ranior, he's a little more difficult to deal with and can do some real damage.
    Tournament Record: 37-18

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    168

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    Quote Originally Posted by massimo View Post
    Finished all my games!

    2-1 vs Orange Lazaruss

    BD vs PE WIN (was going very slow, in the end Ol resigned)
    SG vs MV LOSS
    DD vs DO (tides where turning in his favor but I got SS which allowed me to bring on a fresh wall and summon two GM)

    3-0 vs lcanela

    PE vs TO Win
    JE vs MV Win
    SO vs PE Win

    Thanks for the games!

    I like the format, but prefer to play with Champs! They add more variety, gonna try some new factions in the next round.

    @OL: Benders are even nastier to play in this format. Would consider not taking them again.
    Should be banned maybe.
    Yes, sorry Massimo, I was hoping to finish before I left for vacation, but given the game was going slowly and I had just played lcanela's benders and lost in frustrating fashion, I decided to save myself some stress and resign. I don't think I would have been able to play in the next round anyway.
    Ggs and good luck. Lcanela, I can't believe Oldin survived that onslaught, but that's the way the dice go, I suppose.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranior View Post
    Sweet, all the data is in now so we should be moving on to the next rounds soon.

    As for the Benders, I'll have to admit I don't get it. I mean I always though Tacullu was exceptionally annoying and I personally have always wanted to basically ban that faction from existing. But I don't really see how Tacullu is that powerful in this format.

    Sure sure, Decievers are awfully annoying. Controllers are always good. Mind Control is also very annoying. Mimic is always obnoxious. Tacullu's countersummon is annoying when units don't cost much magic to get rid of. I've no doubt Tacullu is good in this format.

    But what I fail to understand is the fact that Benders still have the crippling weakness of having just about no health and little ability to be offensive/agressive. Therefore if you play against them correctly, I think they are pretty limited in what they can do. In my mind that means you don't hold events so Tacullu can't use Mimic. Sure some factions will really suffer from this so there are a few matchups where this alone may kill you. But frankly I think most factions can afford to build them as magic against the Benders or just play them immediately. Next off don't be agressive against the Benders. Do not cross that halfway line where Tacullu can mind control you. Don't send your units towards Tacullu where he can Counter Summon. Especially don't send your units too close to the Benders where they can summon a Deciever and stun all your units where you can't then manage to summon someone to attack the Deceiver.

    Now the question is what do you do? I think it is pretty simple. You just sit as far back as you can while you shoot their walls. The Benders have little answer to this. Basically they'll be forced to watch their walls be eliminated or else they'll have to summon stuff to respond to the threat and force their units to advance. They will fail in this sort of fight because their low health will mean it is easy to summon and kill them while their relatively low attack values will also mean they struggle to kill things in return.

    Is this sort of gameplay incredibly boring and tedious? Absolutely. It takes a lot of patience to just sit there and fire upon their walls. But I'll tell you what this is pretty much exactly what I did in my matchup against Tacullu thus far and I won. Admittedly I was using SG so I had a good matchup--because Krusk's sandstorm can get you around a lot of the worst of the Deciever/Controller movement/positioning problems and the SG don't need events and they have the ranged units to make this plan work. But I personally think most factions can follow this plan and win. There are just a few who cannot.


    So, am I just crazy though? I'm really curious to see what others think. Is Tacullu really a top tier summoner in this format? My personal inclination is that he is not, he's just very annoying to face and requires changing up your playstyle and adapting far more than most of the other summoners.

    Personally if I want to talk about a summoner who should be banned in this format, I'm looking towards Mugglug. Mugglug loves tons of commons on the field as more Vine Walls is good and more targets for Ensnare are nice. Mugglug has lots of nice options for commons to summon and even has expensive but good commons to summon so he doesn't wind up with the excess magic problem. On top of that Savagers love other commons too since their ability may triggler more often.

    With that being said I actually managed to beat a Mugglug already and I still do think in some matchups Mugglug may still struggle. But personally if I'm rating the best summoner in the format I'd probably give it to Mugglug and others long before I give it to Tacullu.

    I think your assessment of Tacullu is accurate, he is annoying but not necessarily more so than he is using the normal format. I don't think removing champions makes him more powerful but does make mind control slightly more playable. As for Mugglug, from what I've seen his tools are well suited to a champ-free format but again does this necessarily make him stronger than he already is? I'm not sure. I was able to beat him and win with him in the first round.

    My opinion is that by removing champs good summoners are harder to take down and bad summoners lose essential tools, so maybe the gap between the good and the bad grows, but there is still a cohort of good summoners to choose from that all have a chance against each other depending on dice, strategy, and draw order (Tacullu, Mugglug, Krusk, Selundar, Tundle, Abua, and Rallul to name a few).

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    345

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    Since I was the one on the business end of Ranior's SG's in the aforementioned bender example, I will say that game was very 1-sided. SG are very well-suited to the straightening of benders with their javeliners and scavengers. Ranior's logic and gameplan were perfect. Everything in the bender deck is ranged, low HP, and not really cheap either. I had no magic with which to make any kind of effective counter-attack, since all I could do was pop out of my hidey hole and hope I rolled 2 hits with 2 dice, because the unit I sent out would surely be dead next turn.
    I'm sure a rematch would be at least a little more even, since I could assume mimic and mind control would essentially just be magic builders, but Tacullu is by no means OP and should be beatable by all. Sunderved will probably struggle the most, though.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Madison WI
    Posts
    1,850

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aargau View Post
    I think your assessment of Tacullu is accurate, he is annoying but not necessarily more so than he is using the normal format. I don't think removing champions makes him more powerful but does make mind control slightly more playable. As for Mugglug, from what I've seen his tools are well suited to a champ-free format but again does this necessarily make him stronger than he already is? I'm not sure. I was able to beat him and win with him in the first round.

    My opinion is that by removing champs good summoners are harder to take down and bad summoners lose essential tools, so maybe the gap between the good and the bad grows, but there is still a cohort of good summoners to choose from that all have a chance against each other depending on dice, strategy, and draw order (Tacullu, Mugglug, Krusk, Selundar, Tundle, Abua, and Rallul to name a few).
    Yep, I largely agree with that. I don't actually think any summoner in this format is too powerful. For the most part already good summoners are still viable and strong, while you are absolutely correct that some of the weaker summoners already struggle even more. Still I think it is quite a fun meta and you listed some of the top summoners in the format. (Although I'd argue Selundar and Tundle are not in the top tier and I'd probably argue for Sunderved to be included).

    As for Ithamar, I will grant Sand Goblins are pretty much perfectly suited to counter Benders since they do have so many great Ranged units, plus Krusk's Sandstorm is such a powerful tool as well if they get in a really bad jam with Deceivers. I'd agree that stuff like Grognack and Sunderved will still struggle against Tacullu probably because the lack of range really hurts them in the matchup. But any faction with some decent ranged units can probably handle playing against champless Benders with a smart playstyle--just requires playing in a fairly different fashion from most normal games. (Not to mention it is a pretty lame and boring fashion in my opinion, but it is what you have to do as else you're just playing in the Benders hand if you try to be too aggressive against them.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixio View Post
    As for Ranior, he's a little more difficult to deal with and can do some real damage.
    Tournament Record: 37-18

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    1,350

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Lazarus View Post
    Yes, sorry Massimo, I was hoping to finish before I left for vacation, but given the game was going slowly and I had just played lcanela's benders and lost in frustrating fashion, I decided to save myself some stress and resign. I don't think I would have been able to play in the next round anyway.
    Ggs and good luck. Lcanela, I can't believe Oldin survived that onslaught, but that's the way the dice go, I suppose.
    Yee man, I was lost but took the only way I could survive as I was trapped... and dice were on my side I could not believe it, you deserved that match.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Posts
    278

    Default Quarter finals

    Please begin round 2 - see start of thread for match ups.

    Good luck all!

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