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Thread: Real errata--master thread

  1. #871
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    @Prelate, sorry, have been swamped at work. going to respond to you in pieces. After this project I don't think we'll do another project specifically targeting bad and underused units. To be honest, I'm not sure I'll have anything left in the tank for another project.

    That said, this project does a little for bad, average, and underused units:
    - Naan'Nashi in Bolvi (retains upgrade when summoned onto AT, which is dangerous)
    - Ice Golems in Hogar (they're amazing here)
    - Crushers, Berserker, Blagog in Grognack
    - Krom and Shooters in Torgan (they're all amazing here)
    - The Child (crazy range, really solid choice bc cheap and can be 3AV), Kadara (crazy range, similar comment to The Child), Stalker (crazy range), Shikwa (no longer lose an attack to boost her, so a really solid choice), and Jungle Guard (can get movement bonus now so a dangerous option) in Abua
    - JS Shadow, Stalker (very strong here), Shaman (can get a lot of use from it), Ranger, Miti Kyru, and Kuldrid in Melundak
    - Stalwart Archer in Sera (now a good starting unit and even good early game in your deckbuild), Korbolden (awesome here) and all other 1AV VG units in Sera
    - Warden becomes more about Prison and his Prisoners and Taskmasters, although these weren't bad units, he just never really had to play them which was sad
    - Blade Master becomes even better in Farrah (they were already pretty good)
    - Keodel becomes playable in Endrich (although Keodel has a niche in Brath now), and Kendre will probably be pretty good.

    Another possible errata that helps these kind of units:
    - The Vlox MD suggested in the idea thread that's something like choose a unit, during this turn whenever it moves adjacent to enemy unit place a wound on that enemy unit. Helps in Vlox all the special movement units: Barston, Scam, Sin-Sin, Gunner (decent assasination play), Renegade.

    There are still some really sad units that are kind of cool that aren't helped:
    - DD Miner
    - FK Corpse Wyrm, Reaver, Zombie Warrior (this is why I liked the other Phantom design bc it helps all these units)
    - Dwaf
    - Not sure what else you'd throw in here, but it's pretty personal preference I think.
    Last edited by commandercool; 01-11-2019 at 12:42 AM.

  2. #872
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    Quote Originally Posted by commandercool View Post
    Another possible errata that helps these kind of units:
    - The Vlox MD suggested in the idea thread that's something like choose a unit, during this turn whenever it moves adjacent to enemy unit place a wound on that enemy unit. Helps in Vlox all the special movement units: Barston, Scam, Sin-Sin, Gunner (decent assasination play), Renegade.
    Does the unit in question have to end its movement to bring the pain, or could a gunner theoretically run around a unit with greater sneak and apply up to 3 wounds with movement alone?


    Quote Originally Posted by commandercool View Post
    There are still some really sad units that are kind of cool that aren't helped:
    - DD Miner
    - FK Corpse Wyrm, Reaver, Zombie Warrior (this is why I liked the other Phantom design bc it helps all these units)
    - Dwaf
    - Not sure what else you'd throw in here, but it's pretty personal preference I think.
    That makes me sad. I love Zombie Warriors and Reavers.
    Shard the Void Mutant in The Dance of Devils
    Nicholas the Honor Guard in Light's Corruption
    Talu the REAL TWIN in The Ice Wedding

  3. #873
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    DD miner.
    What about extend their ability to other units?
    ... when a common unit move... you may place it adjacent to a miner that you control

    Maybe OP?

    Or on the other side
    a miner may be placed adjacent to any card that you control.
    Last edited by Batou31; 01-11-2019 at 04:45 PM.

  4. #874
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    Hey Guys,
    I'll soon be Back from my Holiday. I had some Chillout time and will write down my tacu Suite idea. So far i only want to give a tiny Spoiler

    Counter summon: unit goes Back to opponents hand !!! That's so simple and fixes all the problems with 0 cost units and for factions that need their Champ for the push. I also have a good Mine Control solution IMO ... So stay tuned

  5. #875
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwalker View Post
    Hey Guys,
    I'll soon be Back from my Holiday. I had some Chillout time and will write down my tacu Suite idea. So far i only want to give a tiny Spoiler

    Counter summon: unit goes Back to opponents hand !!! That's so simple and fixes all the problems with 0 cost units and for factions that need their Champ for the push. I also have a good Mine Control solution IMO ... So stay tuned
    Sounds nice and elegant!

  6. #876
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcanela View Post
    Little Meda
    40. Look What I Can Do! This card is considered to be a Mutation. When this card would be placed in a Discard Pile, instead place it into its Owner's hand.

    I dont understand the purpose of this change... I thought the event was already annoying... now it is even worse... could you please explain why? if I understand properly, it can be used every turn, so you get 1 magic per turn at least from enemy magic pile.. how is this different to half MD every turn?

    Note that the Event's Magic drain Effekt is NOT there anymore. WE removed IT completely and it's Just a blank Event that Swings Back to your Hand and can be drawn via "Daddy i want a new toy"

  7. #877
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwalker View Post
    Note that the Event's Magic drain Effekt is NOT there anymore. WE removed IT completely and it's Just a blank Event that Swings Back to your Hand and can be drawn via "Daddy i want a new toy"
    Thanks Jwalker, now it makes sense, please add this to the changes so that readers can understand it. I want to hear your suggestions for Tac hurry up posting!!!

  8. #878
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    I want to give a quick reply to the discussion about "unit stealing"

    First of all - is unit stealing per se bad? in my opinion it's NOT at all. However, nearly all unit stealing effects/events have side effects that do not represent their cost and/or disrupt the play of the forward summoners too much, because there is no counter play.

    There are a lot of ways to permanently or temporarily steal units in this game, and while most of the temporary effects are ok, nearly all permanent unit stealing is broken mechanically. I want to explain my position on some examples and why I think they are ok and why others are not


    Kaseall: Perfect! You see her coming, you MUST prepare /play around her ability during your turn and pay the price for it, if you can't avoid it. On top, its a temportay effects, so the owner of Kaseal still needs to kill that unit.

    SinSin: OK! You can't avoid her on the turn summoned, but at least it's only a temporary effect and the cost of it, is a relatively weak champ.

    Guldun: Perfect! The unit that is stolen was actually already destroyed, so it's owner got the full value of it! The bender pays with not getting a magic for the kill and an unreliable/weak champ.

    Current heretik rebuke/mind control: Horrible! Why? The mechanic on these events is totally broken, especially for high cost commons and the trigger rather mild. What these events actually state is the following -> discard an enemy common unit and take that card into your hand + you must immediately summon that unit/a mutation in the same space. So the mechanic states -> discard a enemy common unti of any value (for 0 cost), summon the same unit/summon a mutation without any common card from your hand (magic cost only + event card). So this is a huge economic blow for your opponent AND the unit is missing as a potential blocker. The combo of hard to avoid, economic desaster AND loss of board position is so powerful, it forces player into champ play, which then leads to a rather boring play style and an easy counter play setup

    Phantom: Bad! The opponent can't prepare or counter play phantoms! Then on the same time phantoms have a huge varriance. Both design parts are really bad as the effect is so devistating (lost jacob + granny in a single game to 3 phantoms ... was way ahead before then obviously lost). These kind of unit stealing MUST give you a warning and should not be permanent!

    forced conversion: Good! You either need a cultist that survived a turn or a summon spot + cultist in hand. This event is only really good if your cultist DID survive a turn, otherwise it's rather expensive. Your opponent also has the chance to prepare for it, since he can be aware of summon spot or that he should make sure to finish off that cultist. On top it's only a temporary effect!

    Shifter: Bad! The shifter is only really good on high cost commons, but then there is NO counterplay! Like mind control/heretik rebuke there is no scaling effect for the value of the opponents unit. So using a shifter on a 0 cost unit is a bad trade but getting a tusk mutant is so powerful you can't play that unit in this MU. At least you don't loose board position!

    Hope you guys got my point. I primarily just stated the economic loss of these effents but the second big part is the board position you loose and how this might totally punish your play. That's why I'm rather against the "unavoidable/ no counterplay" effects mind control and so on. It's however much better if it's only a tempory effect with a considerable cost involved, then it can be balanced as well.

  9. #879
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwalker View Post
    I want to give a quick reply to the discussion about "unit stealing"

    First of all - is unit stealing per se bad? in my opinion it's NOT at all. However, nearly all unit stealing effects/events have side effects that do not represent their cost and/or disrupt the play of the forward summoners too much, because there is no counter play.

    There are a lot of ways to permanently or temporarily steal units in this game, and while most of the temporary effects are ok, nearly all permanent unit stealing is broken mechanically. I want to explain my position on some examples and why I think they are ok and why others are not


    Kaseall: Perfect! You see her coming, you MUST prepare /play around her ability during your turn and pay the price for it, if you can't avoid it. On top, its a temportay effects, so the owner of Kaseal still needs to kill that unit.

    SinSin: OK! You can't avoid her on the turn summoned, but at least it's only a temporary effect and the cost of it, is a relatively weak champ.

    Guldun: Perfect! The unit that is stolen was actually already destroyed, so it's owner got the full value of it! The bender pays with not getting a magic for the kill and an unreliable/weak champ.

    Current heretik rebuke/mind control: Horrible! Why? The mechanic on these events is totally broken, especially for high cost commons and the trigger rather mild. What these events actually state is the following -> discard an enemy common unit and take that card into your hand + you must immediately summon that unit/a mutation in the same space. So the mechanic states -> discard a enemy common unti of any value (for 0 cost), summon the same unit/summon a mutation without any common card from your hand (magic cost only + event card). So this is a huge economic blow for your opponent AND the unit is missing as a potential blocker. The combo of hard to avoid, economic desaster AND loss of board position is so powerful, it forces player into champ play, which then leads to a rather boring play style and an easy counter play setup

    Phantom: Bad! The opponent can't prepare or counter play phantoms! Then on the same time phantoms have a huge varriance. Both design parts are really bad as the effect is so devistating (lost jacob + granny in a single game to 3 phantoms ... was way ahead before then obviously lost). These kind of unit stealing MUST give you a warning and should not be permanent!

    forced conversion: Good! You either need a cultist that survived a turn or a summon spot + cultist in hand. This event is only really good if your cultist DID survive a turn, otherwise it's rather expensive. Your opponent also has the chance to prepare for it, since he can be aware of summon spot or that he should make sure to finish off that cultist. On top it's only a temporary effect!

    Shifter: Bad! The shifter is only really good on high cost commons, but then there is NO counterplay! Like mind control/heretik rebuke there is no scaling effect for the value of the opponents unit. So using a shifter on a 0 cost unit is a bad trade but getting a tusk mutant is so powerful you can't play that unit in this MU. At least you don't loose board position!

    Hope you guys got my point. I primarily just stated the economic loss of these effents but the second big part is the board position you loose and how this might totally punish your play. That's why I'm rather against the "unavoidable/ no counterplay" effects mind control and so on. It's however much better if it's only a tempory effect with a considerable cost involved, then it can be balanced as well.
    I agree 100% with your statement and I am 100% in fixing this part of the game.

  10. #880
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batou31 View Post
    DD miner.
    What about extend their ability to other units?
    ... when a common unit move... you may place it adjacent to a miner that you control

    Maybe OP?

    Or on the other side
    a miner may be placed adjacent to any card that you control.
    I think in general that there is only a handful of commons and maybe 8-9 champs in the game left that are just aweful. There a quite a bit of units that are now ok to play "light units in vanguard, rhalee in Maldaria and so on. We also made sure a lot of commons are now really good with our errate summoners (like CC stated, melundaks commons are fantastic in his deck, icegolems are really powerful in Bolvi and Hogar but also useful in Torgan.

    For Tundle it would be a relatively easy way to just add a sentence at some point, to give a bonus to 1 AV units as well, so that crossbow, miner, Gem pristess and Geomancer get a small boost. Maybe that 1 AV common units share abilities during that turn, which would be a cool combo play of crossbow, geomancer and miners. (Like Batou suggested, then every 1 AV unit can be moved adjacent to a miner, which makes them very interesting with crossbow man!)

    For Taculu I plan to give support to all 1AV units, which means Parasite, Breaker, Gem Pristess and Deceiver (well already good but it's a core unit) some power up. This way Parasite, Shifter (as fighting unit) and Gem Pristess fill the space of the stone golems as a blocker, since golems are not permitted anymore.

    In the end, having some few champs and a bunch of mercenary cards, that are rather bad is fine for me. Every card change CAN shake the whole meta and we have only so much time to test these, which I rather invest into balancing the core project. However, we have been and will be very interested to design the current project in a way that lesser used units are improved to get our desired effect (like in melundak).
    Last edited by jwalker; 01-24-2019 at 04:31 AM.

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