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Thread: "Must" have Champs

  1. #1
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    Default "Must" have Champs

    So in the Champion Battle thread there are arguments over the "must" have champs in a deck...and I like the discussion.

    So as is first off I think we're looking for the champions that you will almost always run in any deck of that faction. I think it is a champion almost everyone runs, you see in the deck, and is so powerful and important that you almost have to run it.

    But really the quantification I think best is this:

    --Can you create a deck more powerful without the champion than with him? Or is the best deck of that faction only realized by having that champion in it?




    As is, I'm gonna do a faction by faction break down of "must" have champs:

    PE: I think Fire Drake really is one. To not run him you'd pretty much be running a Laleya/Maelena/Holleas deck with lots of Firebeasts...and even then you could drop Mal or Lal and get Fire Drake out for 2 more magic. The PE shouldn't struggle to get the magic for those champs...really there is no reason not to run the Drake's mighty 3 attack, and even better auto wound in a line through walls. Very hard to reason why you don't want that auto hits, especially to force a summmoner like Ret Talus or others into absolute fear.


    TO: They don't have any. You can run any combo of Bragg/Blagog/Ragnor/Krung/Rukar and be happy. You don't need any of them, there isn't a must have champ in this bunch. I can see some who would argue Bragg perhaps, but they'd be wrong.


    CG: Mook. I don't think this is too arguable...can you run without him, sure....but I don't think it's possible to have a better deck without him. He's fairly cheap, but has a lot of health, and his boost is useful for the CG. He does more than the Eater or Blarg or Reeker or Krag or Scagg. He's the best champ of the bunch, and there is very little reason to not run him as you don't exactly get a lot of cheaper options that do anywhere near as much.


    GD: Gror is the must run I'd think. There's no good reason not to have the hammer quake around...he helps to take out walls along with everyone in his impressive attack radius. The lowish attack is made up for by the multiple targets he hits...to build a deck without him would require some very interesting decisions I'd have to think.

    Baldar is in almost every GD deck I see too, he is pretty powerful, but I could see the case for a Tordok + Thorkur/Halvor/Grungor being better, especially since Baldar against some factions isn't too exciting. (Like when he gets Negated)


    VG: Kalon would be the argued one...and pretty right so, the 8 life for 7 magic, with solid attack to back up is alright....but a Leah, Mal, and Jacob deck might be just as good. Personally I'd say Kalon is a must have, but I think this is one of the more contestable ones, as Kalon doesn't do that much for the VG that can't be realized in other ways....and tns has recently shown me some really good VG play without Kalon, and I wasn't thinking at the end that Kalon was needed.


    FK: Nobody is a must run. There are some good champs...but I've seen so many builds that work pretty well...as long as you are comboing and getting the healing going, doesn't really matter who you got going. I can't think of any FK that's a must have.


    CL: No must have here. Scam is as close as you could come, and a Hawk/Violet, Sin-Sin deck or something similar is just as good really. I don't think there's much argument here.


    JE: Miti Mumway. He is so useful with the large life, good attack, and trampling. In order to not run him, you'd probably wanna go Ru, Shikwa, and some other merc (Hulgorad, Khan, Grubs?) along with some strong commons. However I'd argue strongly you don't have the strongest JE deck going on then, especially with any faction that can really mess with your commons. Gorillas, Elehpants, and even a Jungle Guard here or there is nice, but at the expense of not having Miti around, I don't think it can possibly be worth it.


    SO: Glarg. He's a cheap champ, 5 cost, for 6 life, and usually will be attacking at 3 ranged. There's no good reason to not run him right now, even if you just wanna spam Savagers, he's the one champ you should still summon. At least until we see some reinforcements, but right now Glarg is a have to have.


    MV: Nobody can be claimed as having to have. Torodin surely isn't. Quen is exciting at times, but doesn't have a lot of life and sucks magic to keep attacking at a high level. Growden is quite good if you wanna crowd the walls and take them down, but even he could be replaced with some mercs and the MV would still roll. I can't see any arguments here for a must have.


    SG: Silts ability is amazing...but he doesn't have to be run. 7 cost is a lot, I've seen very effecitve rushes using just some Jav's with Biter and maybe Kreep. With some new champs out, they really don't have to have Silts if they just want to run forward and be offensive with Sandstorm.


    SE: I'm not expert here, but I doubt any of them are must runs. Hydrake is very useful, but quite expensive. I'm guessing with the reirnforcements, Kuldrir/Malek/Xaserbane with Blademasters/Hunters/Swordsman is just as good as any Hydrake deck. Xaserbane is really useful, yet I can see reasons not to have him anymore either....I'm just not sure there is a needed champ here.

    DD: Kynder. I think Kynder has got to be the man here. I've seen games won by Kynder/Tundle just because Tundle could meditate and Kynder could push the opponent away after Tundle attacks. It's just insane that Kynder's ability can trigger at anytime and overall Kynder also is only 5 cost with 6 life and 2 attack, solid enough stats as is. The push though is just so insanely good and combos well with a lot of what the DD do. Lun could maybe be argued, but I don't think you have to be running Lun...Lun just isn't quite in that tier.


    BN: Sorgwen? I'm on the edge with this one, but I think so. I'm not sure how you argue against having a common attack twice on a turn, from a champ with decent enough stats themself. I'm not sure of the deck you'd run without Sorgwen either, so I'd say that Sorgwen earns the spot.


    FL and MR: I haven't got to play either of these guys...with that being said I don't think there are any must runs for either of these guys based on the simple theory wars I can do.



    So overall the must run champs I'd suggest would be :


    Fire Drake
    Mook
    Gror
    Miti
    Glarg
    Kynder


    And the on the edge guys are :
    Kalon
    Sorgwen
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixio View Post
    As for Ranior, he's a little more difficult to deal with and can do some real damage.
    Tournament Record: 37-18

  2. #2
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    Sorgwen is a must have, hands down.

    Silts is a must have for me.

    Kalon is a must have for me.

    Krung is almost a must have for me, the guy is a walking wall, come on.
    The Fallen Kingdom is Rising...

  3. #3
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    I'd go with

    Mook, Sorgwen. These two champs are very nice for there cost and bring an incredible strong ability that just makes the whole factions immediately stronger. Draw one of these champs very late and you just have a muich harder match.

    Drake, Glarg, Miti, Gror and Kyndar are all strong but you can easily be competitive without them (though a little bit weaker). Oh I think you need to include Jacob, as he really helps in a lot of Matchups.

    But I'm sure CG would drop at least 10% in win/loss ratio without Mook.

    btw. It must be mook to win the champions battle ! He's a 6 (2/7 stats) + 2 magic champion (very strong ability) but costs 5. Thats a 3 point cheaper champ, can't think of another.

  4. #4
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    Hmmm. I was also thinking of a thread like this, glad someone else decided to just go ahead.

    Personally, I only have three must have champs: Sorgwen, Mook, and Baldar.

    Cave Goblins: Mook for sure. His cost/stat ratio, his ability, everything about him is just invaluable to CG. Maybe he'll lose some of his usefulness with a second summoner who has other options, but even without big combos he is an awesome combo with Sneeks.

    Guild Dwarves: Gror is nice, and I really like him. But I dont think he is a necessity. Really, Baldar is the only GD champ I must have, and that is just to deal with beefy champs. They have a great selection of champs, and I'm of the personal opinion that you can run a deck without Gror or Baldar just fine. Thorkur and Tordok have good range and defence, Halvor is super versatile, and Grungor is an excellent assassin

    Phoenix Elves: As I said in the Blagog thread, I like Fire Drake and when more PE come out I'll likely try to make an alternative deck with him, probably including Guardians as I'd really like to design a deck with them. But I just love the Malaena/Laleya tag team, and Fire Beast pushing with Holleas is very effective. I really like four out of their six champions, and with he 3 champ limit I just chose to run cheaper alternatives.

    Tundra Orcs: If your gonna use Freeze and Ice Walls as a major part of your deck, then Bragg is a must for me. Otherwise these guys have a great selection of versatile champs.

    Vanguard: Noone is a must have, but I just can't do without Leah Goodwin. She combos so well with expensive champs like Kalon, Malevolence, or Coleen.

    Fallen Kingdom: Again, I love all their champs (eh maybe aside from Elut-bal. Just can't get down on him.) If I had to choose one it'd be Malevolnece with some Dark Sacrfices...awesome combo. Otherwise I think you cant go wrong with any of their champs. Many mercs also work great here.

    Cloaks: I am a huge Hawk advocate, and I probably wouldn't deckbuild without him. But he isn't necessary, and alot of it depends on deck style.

    Jungle Elves: I really just don't get the MM hype. He is awesome to get out, but between Shikwa/Makienda and all of their awesome commons I just dont find him necessary. This is another faction which has a great toolbox of versatile champs.

    Benders: Sorgwen. Between Mind Witches, Parasites, Controllers, and Breakers I just can't see any reason not to use her. She is realy the only bender champ I have a liking for, as I like to use Khan Queso and Rygos in combo with controllers.

    Shadow Elves: Pre-reinforcements I think Hydrake was the most have champ of any faction in the game. He was the only real source of a meatshield besides mercs who dont work with SE events. Now I'm not to sure, as I really like Kuldrid and Malek.

    Swamp Orcs: I find Savagers far more must-have then any of their champs. I like Splub and Glarg, but most of the time I'd rather just get more Savagers out.

    Deep Dwarves: I always use Lun, as his ability is just impossible for commons to hide from. I dont even think he is a huge necessity, but for four magic he is a great investment.

    Sand Goblins: I like Silts, but I don't find him must have. Besides Kreep I like all SG champs and wish I could fit all of them into a deck. But I'm pretty high on sandstorm, and some games I can win without getting a single champ out. I do like having Biter in all SG decks though just due to his rediculous stats.

    Mountain Vargath: Again, a great selection of base champs. But none of them are invaluable and MV can function just fine on merc champs or no champs at all. But I would say Growden is a must have, as he really brings out their great wall-crowding skills.

    Filth: Abomination sure isn't a must have! As we all know, Filth are all about mutations. I like Naan'naashi or Sairook in to replace a cultist to help deal with common-killing decks. But other then that they don't really need any champ.

    Mercs: Eh, I think for the merc deck no champ is a must have. They have so many options that I just don't think you should limit your huge array of options. Wall manipulation champs, heavy hitting champs, cheap disposable champs. They have so many champs available for so many different type of players. Deckbuilding merc decks is such an interesting subject that I dont think has been given enough attention

  5. #5
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    I have mostly played cloaks and think that Hawk is a must have. The main reason is that he can do something nobody else can, destroying rush or large number of common.

    The main risk of a cloaks deck is having a large number of common overwhelm you. You can't fight head on with most common and your higher mobility will be a problem with all the lanes covered with enemy. Hawk and Vlox can easily take care of 3 common units by the two of them and you still have attacks leftovers.

  6. #6
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    I don't FEEL like Baldar is one yet when I try to build a deck without him I always eventually give up and put him in, so I guess I have to count him.

    Interestingly, everyone being talked about comes with base decks, not reinforcements. That's a good thing. I would have one exception though:

    Holleas to me is too good of a value to omit, but I suppose she commits you too much to Fire Beasts to be an absolute must.

    I suppose the Cloaks could have one if you counted Admiral or whatever. But no choice would be a consensus.
    Last edited by joepinion; 04-04-2012 at 08:02 PM.
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    Well I guess my point is the definition of a must have is arguable....is it a must have to you?

    I was trying to argue the champs you have to have in that factions deck in order to be running the strongest possible build. That's my definition. I think therefore the arguments for Vanguards are all moot then, I've been people that like Kalon, Jacob, and Leah, none of them are needed to have the best deck, just abusing one champ and getting lots of healing is the point.


    As for SO...you are doing something wrong if you're not running Glarg. Can you win by just summoning Savagers, sure. But if you're looking for the one champ that will help most, Glarg is it.


    As for Gd...Baldar isn't must have. I just don't buy it. I'd like to see the deckbuilds without Gror. I mean I agree almost everyone runs Baldar/Gror, but I don't think Baldar is really that needed...he's nice, but eh, I'm not really sure I buy the must have.

    Cloaks can run so many champ set ups and be good. None of their champs are there.


    And finally, as for the Miti Mumway talk...maybe he isn't needed? And yet I think he is. He's the only real life and beef the JE have, most of their other units are running low. You could run without him and then have to run Gorillas and Lioness, with maybe a Lioneer and Elephant. But if you're facing a faction like SE with Into Darkness, CG with the Eater, CL with Assasinate, and any other faction that can ruin commons consitently (SO--Ensnare, SG--Taunt) I'd say you're running a weaker deck if you're not running Miti Mumway. You are just gonna suffer against that type of stuff with a common heavy JE deck.

    Therefore I'd say Miti is a must have champ in your deckbuild, even if you aren't always gonna summon him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixio View Post
    As for Ranior, he's a little more difficult to deal with and can do some real damage.
    Tournament Record: 37-18

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    I'd definitely include Sorgwen in that list. Controllers, breakers, especially mind witches and even parasites can get really good with her help. Not to mention potentially great mind controlled commons (gorillas, savagers, berserkers, the list goes on...) And then the benders aren't exactly known for their awesome champs... And besides that, she is rather cheap and has a good AV, even though she is frail. All in all, I really can't see how a bender deck wouldn't be made better by including Sorgwen.

  9. #9
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    Is there a "must have" champion in the game? I don't think so. Well, it's mainly because defining what's "best" when you have so many options is impossible. And what is best for me isn't necessarily best for you. So there's is a lot of tastes implied.

    Let's say I don't run Miti Mumway in my JE. Is my deck worse? I'd rather say I do things differently. In that specific case, all my champions became ranged units, so you can abuse that instead of beasty Miti. And I've done exceedingly well with pretty much the opposites of every suggestions Ranior made.

    Now I DO have my favourites, but that's purely out of tastes. Me like Growden. Even with their reinforcements, I prefer the MV with that guy in, even if he isn't useful. I've played with Mook replaced by Scaag, and guess what: Scaag did a ton of damage, probably more than Mook could have, because I played accordingly.

    And this discussion is intimately linked with what's behind the appearances. Some Champions like Raechel, Rahlee and Scaag look weak, but when you go deeper than the surface appearances, you discover how they can really rock if you use them correctly. The same goes for every champion, and though some might have more obvious optimal uses, all of them have optimal uses.

  10. #10
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    On an unrelated note, I'd much sooner drop Kynder than Lun, even though I would most likely keep both.

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