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Thread: Natazga fury of the fen

  1. #101
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    Wait a sec... Is it because in the Chrerub Ability description it makes no mention of walls? So, from the Cherub point of view, it goes to move, see a unit that is also a wall, asks itself, "can I move over a unit? Yes, yes I can." Doesn't ask itself if it can move over walls, and so just moves over the unit?

    I guess the base rules say you can't move over an occupied space, and the Cherub ability breaks that partially by allowing it to move over occupied spaces containing units. So if the base rules said you can't move over an occupied space OR A SPACE CONTAINING A WALL, then the Cherub ability wouldn't allow it to move through an Ice Golem Ice Wall.

    I think I understand that... This is starting to make sense, but I'm going to keep thinking of units with abilities that might contradict this. Sorry for all the hassle KC; I'm sure you hate us all by now.
    Last edited by KBurg7; 12-10-2016 at 04:49 PM.

  2. #102
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    I hope to help all players who have difficult in dealing with cards with a dual nature (Unit+Wall) explaining them how I act in this case.

    In the case of a Unit interacting with a "dual card" (but the reasoning is the same for Events), I simply see how that Unit's Ability interacts with one of the 2 natures of a dual card, and then I apply that effect vs the full dual card.

    So, for example, a GD Engineer has a +2 to its AV vs a Wall. For me, that bonus is valid vs a transformed IG (although it is also a Unit. Why? Literally, the AV bonus is vs a Wall, but the Ability text doesn't say it applies ONLY vs Walls: that is, we haven't an explicit negation in applying the bonus vs a Unit. I know that this may seem just a formal quibble, but it's the only thing to which I can cling if I had to cavil).

    Keeping on ... in the case of a Filth Zealot, its Ability says that it cannot attack a Wall, so, I extend the effect to a transformed IG.

    A Cherubim can fly through Units, so, I move with it through a transformed IG.

    Etc.

    Maybe this explanation is simplistic, maybe it can lead to contradictions (however, I can't think to anything strange, atm), but this is the way I deal with cards having a dual nature.



    *** EDIT (final thought) ***

    For the good of the game, however, at this point, I think that killercactus, or Colby, should introduce an official rule for cards with a dual nature: as I have said in all my posts, I think that the easier solution is that if an effect affects 1 of the 2 natures, it affects the full card. Even if in this way it were to contradict some base rule (for the simplicity of the game, I think we may accept few forcing).

    If not, I fear that we risk to open a pandora jar with thousands of case-by-case exceptions (I fear a list longer that the one for the Heavy Knight).
    Last edited by Khayzhard; 12-10-2016 at 05:19 PM.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khayzhard View Post
    I hope to help all players who have difficult in dealing with cards with a dual nature (Unit+Wall) explaining them how I act in this case.

    In the case of a Unit interacting with a "dual card" (but the reasoning is the same for Events), I simply see how that Unit's Ability interacts with one of the 2 natures of a dual card, and then I apply that effect vs the full dual card.

    So, for example, a GD Engineer has a +2 to its AV vs a Wall. For me, that bonus is valid vs a transformed IG (although it is also a Unit. Why? Literally, the AV bonus is vs a Wall, but the Ability text doesn't say it applies ONLY vs Walls: that is, we haven't an explicit negation in applying the bonus vs a Unit. I know that this may seem just a formal quibble, but it's the only thing to which I can cling if I had to cavil).

    Keeping on ... in the case of a Filth Zealot, its Ability says that it cannot attack a Wall, so, I extend the effect to a transformed IG.

    A Cherubim can fly through Units, so, I move with it through a transformed IG.

    Etc.

    Maybe this explanation is simplistic, maybe it can lead to contradictions (however, I can't think to anything strange, atm), but this is the way I deal with cards having a dual nature.
    That is the way I look at it too. I think what was confusing for me was the Cherub thing because I didn't fully understand the base rule on moving. If my last post about the whole base rule thing is correct, then now it makes sense to me.

  4. #104
    killercactus is offline SW App Champion Summer 2015, but still do what he says.
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    These last 2 posts are correct. That's how it works.
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    I need to update this signature. While I do that, go listen to A Doug's Guide to Summoner Wars - the podcast!

  5. #105
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    Just to be clear, the reason that stepping on a fenned vw unfens it is because the first sentence of FOTF is not just an activation but last through the whole turn, right? It does not read: play the event, check all vw that are unoccupied at that time, these (and these only) are considered mercenaries until the end of the turn no matter what, even if someone steps on them.

    Instead, it reads: until the end of the turn any vw is a mercenary as long as it's not occupied, meaning that if somehow you create a new vw in the same turn, that vw can immediately attack. Am I right?

    I think a similar ruling was made for forbidden ritual, that any newly made zombie would be affected even it is wasn't there when the event was played. Also for holy judgdment.

    This could also go into the FAQ
    Last edited by Olivier; 12-10-2016 at 10:13 PM.
    Olivier
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  6. #106
    killercactus is offline SW App Champion Summer 2015, but still do what he says.
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    That's correct, but it seems pretty clear from the card wording to me.
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