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Thread: "New" Hogar and Ret (w/Second Summoner Units)

  1. #1
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    Default "New" Hogar and Ret (w/Second Summoner Units)

    First match I played Ret v. Maldaria
    This was my build:
    6 Warlock, 6 Augur, 2 Phantom
    Gul-Dass, Hellfire Drake, Elut Bal

    Ret felt like something to be feared with just the Warlocks. But now he has Augurs, too?! Wow! Force of nature. Completely blown away by the sheer power of this build. Didn't get a chance to play Greater Raise+Warlock, bc I drew by Greater Raises and Warlocks too late (so I couldn't cycle them into the magic pile until the last couple turns); or Dark Sacrifice (bc I drew Gul-Dass and Elut Bal and all 3 of my Dark Sacrifices within my first 2-4 turns, so I had to burn the Dark Sacrifices, esp bc Maldaria was bearing down, playing very aggressively). Got out Elut and Gul-Das on the same turn using two Forced Summons. Wow, that must have been terrifying for my opponent. Threw a quick 4 AV on exposed Maldaria with Gul-Das. Hit on 3, burned an Augur to ignore the wounds. My friend played aggressively, swarming and crowding my walls, but that's not a problem for Ret, except to get the champs out, so I made sure to keep at least 1-2 spots open at all times. This build felt easy and straight forward. Just kept summoning my Augurs--I think I summoned every single one--and made sure I had the magic to ignore wounds to Ret. They served as great blockers to Ret, in addition, of course. But with the Augurs I was just able to do huge work against Maldaria's forces with Gul-Das and didn't flinch at going for his commons. Even though I didn't get the Warlock spam or Dark Sac going for reasons explained above, so I didn't truly get this new juggernaut of a Ret firing on all cylinders, it was so versatile! Was a war of attrition with my two champs against his commons and you know how a champ v. common attrition war plays out...Anyway, there were moments of nervousness for me, as he was able to destroy one wall and push me kind of into the corner with a Ret, Wall, and 2 Augurs (for 2 turns) after he finally destroys Elut and Gull and with magic galore (12+; no Warlocks yet in Discard!!!) and Hellfire in my hand, I have to maneuver to make sure I get a wall space. I do. And I summon Hellfire and put 3 wounds on 3 commons with Greater Hellfire, destroying 2. He counters with Hellfire of his own, but to make it shorter story, I Hellfire a blocker he has on Maldaria, shoot the gap with my Warlock, only needing to hit on 1, and smoke Maldaria. Honestly, the matchup felt unfair because Ret is so strong.


    Second match I played Hogar v. Warden

    This was my build:
    5 Ice Golem, 5 Defender, 5 Guild Smith
    Ulfric, Grok, Baldar

    Tried to go more defensively with this bulid. I had dreams of Ulfric synergy with IG; and Ulfric+IG+Grok/Baldar/Hogar synergy; Grok and IG synergy; ranged Unit synergy w/Defenders holding targets from reaching ranged units. Frankly, didn't work out, but would have I think if my friend didn't play aggressively. Frankly, still don't have a great feel for Hogar. Struggled with his economy--Guild Smiths are supposed to help so you can just recycle the Runes, but didn't get one out early and wouldn't have been able to protect it even if I had bc he gets out Lukestor. I should have tried to build a big magic pile first, but he really put on pressure by summoning Lukestor in response to my Ulfric with Rune of Power. And I struggle with Lukestor bc I have two IGs and Ulfric on the board. Ulfric gets trapped away from the action, albeit adjacent to my wall, by opponent Prisoner. Lukestor starts to go to town on my 2 IGs. I draw Rune of Shackling and play on Lukestor (he doesn't pay to get rid of Rune), allowing me to dance away with Hogar--who was in Lukestor range, making me nervous--but the IGs just keep taking damage. A couple times got a Defender adjacent to Lukestor, but the only Unit I could really attack Lukestor with was Ulfric bc I wanted to protect Hogar. Eventually he summons the indomitable Soul Eater for a paltry 6 magic, kills Ulfric, so he has 2 champs on the board w/Lukestor and Soul Eater. I hate Soul Eater. I dread his appearance. Anyway, I think I'm screwed, but somehow, he's left without cards in Prison Pile or common Unit adjacent to Soul Eater and bye bye Soul Eater. Thank God. I think I've rallied, get out Baldar, finish off Lukestor; next turn summon a Rune Smith adjacent to Runed IG and get 5 AV on Warden with Baldar and Rune Smith (I don't think my friend is familiar with Hogar/IGs), hitting on 4. But then he summons Blade Mutant! I'm in inner turmoil bc I know, Baldars a goner. Miraculously God answers my prayer and Blade Mutant misses, I summon a Defender, move Baldar away. Meanwhile, my friend is building a big magic pile and I know he has 1 champ left and that he likes Abom, so I think he's going to gearing up for that summon. I'm trying to get to my Rune of Nullification in Draw Pile (only have a few cards left) and 3 in my magic pile bc I have Avalanche in my hand to have the Rune of Nullification+Avalanche combo at the ready. He summons Abom, Enlists (? is that the one?) Winged Mutant, tries to fly through Winged Mutant through Blade Mutant that's adjacent to my Defender, we debate whether he's able to, and he has to leave for class so we're unable to finish the game. Really wasn't able to get the Rune Smiths going this game though I know they're great.

    On reflection this Hogar deck felt fragile, like a frail icicle deck of cards instead of an ice fortress--everything crumbled too easily. I think part is that the synergy I had planned was good in theory but it required too much set-up. Didn't have enough units that could just do work or be damage commons at low cost. Of course, Lukestor really made stuff hard. Not sure what I'll do next time.
    Last edited by commandercool; 09-02-2016 at 02:51 PM.

  2. #2
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    For Hogar, try using more Scribes. With Rune Smiths, they really help the deck become very efficient.

  3. #3
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    Hm, maybe Scribes are just so bad! The problem for me I think was I couldn't get the Guild Smith out in a place to protect them (failure on my execution)--they're an efficiency Unit that lets you play your Runes as you get them.

    I think the Defender+Ranged units was too much and needs to go. Ulfric has the potential to be pretty good here, I think w/the Runed IGs. Grok, too. Both can be action starters. Baldar is the anti-champ Unit (and is really good if he can be combod with Ulfric). Shooter can basically be a realiable (unlike Shaman) 2AV ranged for 1 Magic at any time and shooting at anyone bc of Runed IGs.

    Ulfric, Grok, Baldar
    5 IG, 5 Shooter (my damage common), 4 Guild Smith

  4. #4
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    I would personally cut down on the Ice Golems. You only really need them against turtler factions, against other factions Hogar will want to take the defensive role and let the other summoner come to him. Plus you have the 2 starting Ice Golems with 3 life each, so I don't think you need to bring 5 in your draw pile. Rune Smiths are Hogar's money common, you want to be spending most of those Runes of Shielding on them rather than Shielding an Ice Golem and awkwardly trying to keep a Rune Smith adjacent for support. Same with the two champs that require adjacency to an Ice Golem in order to be good: it's just not worth it. Adjacency buffs have proven themselves too awkward to be worth it for such relatively small rewards.

    If I were building this deck, I'd run:

    Baldar, Gror, Rukar
    6x Rune Smith, 4x Smasher, 4x Oath Sworn

    Just take the most efficient units and run with them. A Rune Smith with Rune of Shielding is basically a 2R/2/2 with Shield assuming your opponent only attacks it with 2AV units. Most decks don't run any 1AV units, but if your opponent does throw that at you to kill the Rune Smiths more easily, punish them for it with your Smashers and champs.

    That said, if you really wanted to use Rune Smiths to boost other commons rather than just playing your Runes under the smiths themselves, the combo I'd use is Rune Smiths+Marauders. You can play the Marauders a lot further back than you can Ice Golems, which makes it more practical to protect your Rune Smiths.

    Ice Golems+Shooters gives you a 2R/1 for 1 and a Rune, and you have to keep 3 units (Rune Smith+Ice Golem+Shooter) adjacent to each other, usually in a forward position where the Rune Smith can die.

    Marauders gives you a 3R/2 or a 2R/2 with Shield for 2 and a Rune, you only have to keep 2 units adjacent to each other, and you can play them further back.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheuslkr View Post
    Adjacency buffs have proven themselves too awkward to be worth it for such relatively small rewards.
    I agree in the case of Rune Smith, but not in the case of Raldag with PowerCrusher.

    I like semi-turtling, with wall attack as a response to harder turtlers, with something like this:

    Baldar/Raldag/Krung

    1x Marauder
    2x Ice Golem
    1x Scribe

    3x Crusher
    3x Shaman
    3x Ballista
    3x Defender
    2x Rune Smith

  6. #6
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    @CommanderCool
    The deck should be fine - I think you are trying to hard to make some combos working. A deck like this has the potential to setup these ridiculous combos (Baldar with Ulfric support with a runed Golem adjacent), but does not rely on it. The idea of Grok, Ulfric, Golems and RuneSmiths are that they are already powerful once runed by themself.
    Grok + Heroism is a 2/7 ranged for 7 unit which can easily be boosted to 3-4 AV (especially since it works on enemy walls as well), Ulfric with Power is a 3/8 for 7 ranged champ once you put him next to a wall. RuneSmith and Golems are a bit different. They are rather weak units without rune (instant build) but once runed are quite good units without any combo (3/1 for 2 magic in case of runesmith!). Defender should only be a situational support unit. I also agree with prometheus that you should plan for fewer Golems (3 in draw is way enough since you start with 2 and you only want to summon them with shielding). Instead I would include 2 scribes as you should have always one on the field to speed up your deck (you can also kill of the starting one in this way or summon them to kill them off in the same turn if you can spare the attack).
    Try your deck with
    Grok, Ulfric, Baldar + 3 Golems, 2 Scribes, 6 RuneSmith (more reliable in draw) and 4 Defender. Build fast at the start and rush for your first champ. If you get Heroic/Power fast you can use 1-2 Runesmith for quick damage. Golems with shield either flank or stay adjacent (Grok) and Ulfric/Grok go for their walls. I rarely use Runemages to recover the runes of other units.

    The deck is a bit weak vs. Heavy commons (2/3) but at least Avalanche helps a bit here (it's for free vs. them). Also it lacks spike damage so that can be a problem.

  7. #7
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    For me I have had the most success with:

    Hogar: Thorkur, Blagog, Ragnor
    Starters+ Scribe x3, Rune Smith x6, Ice Golem x3, & Architect x2

    I had no issues cutting my Ice Golems to just 3. They are only one AV and the Architect really can help may the starting 2 last. That said, it is nice to use them adjacent to Rune Smiths for obvious reasons. That said, the Ice Golems are really in there for support and verse turtling factions. Most of the times the are just magic; Rune Smiths and Scribes are the real heart of the deck. Scribes work epicly with Rune Smiths. The deck flows a lot nicer and it is best to try to play common heavy with Rune Smiths anyway for once you use a Rune on a champion, it is gone. For the champs, Thorkur is my #1 guy. I love getting the Runes on a 3 ranged unit. Outside of him, Ragnor has a ton of potential to swing for a bunch and I find Blagog to be a ton of fun; that said, I wouldn't fault someone for swapping one out for Baldar (that said, I don't think he is needed here).

  8. #8
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    Thanks for all the feedback, guys. Lot of helpful stuff. Don't have the time to address all of it.

    Re Ice Golem: I'll cut down to 3 in my draw pile.
    Re Rune Smith: I didn't read their ability carefully. Didn't realize that Preserve works on themselves--they become a necessary x6. So I'll pack around 6: they become the bread and butter Unit for me.
    Re Architect: I guess it's personal preference, but I don't care much for them.
    Re Scribe: They were so bad originally that I am averse to playing them at all. But since so many of you say Scribe+Rune Smith, I'll try it out.

    Ulfric and Grok: via runes, I like the possibility of high AV with high health for cheap cost. That said, Thorkur is easier setup. And if I pack Defenders, then Thorkurs lower health doesn't matter as much. Besdies, Thorkur's true health is around Ulfric's and Grok's anyway, in most cases, albeit at 2-3 more magic. I like Ulfric more than Grok bc less setup and makes other units better, esp bc he can increase Hogar's. Synergy between champs is something that never works as well in practice and shouldn't really be a factor in a build, so saying that, I'll preface my next comment by saying it's not a reason to include Baldar and Ulfric in the same build, but that if you get that synergy, that's pretty good.

    Re Ragnor: I just don't like his swinginess as much, but his cost is great. But for a cheap champ, I prefer Baldar.

    Re Ballista: this is one piece I might consider including. It's all about opportunity cost, though. And with ranged champs and Units like Ulfric, Thorkur, and the RS that I want to include, I already have other "action starters."
    Re Thwarter: hard to not include as blockers. Again, opportunity cost.
    Re Defender: opportunity cost favors the Defender, esp when you consider that for 2 magic (true cost of Defender), you can basically extend the HV of your ranged champs and commons.
    Re IG: great for offensive build: I guess I don't care as much for them in a more defensive build like what I want to accomplish here. Defenders and Thwarters overlap, IMO and the Defender is better.
    Re Blagog: I think he gets more use out of Runes than almost anyone. Him with Rune of Power is terrifying. For personal preference of ability types and the types of abilities that are fun to me to play, I would prefer to not play most of the TO champs.

    So I'll go
    - Ulfric, Thorkur, Baldar.
    - 5 Rune Smith, 6 Defender, 3 Scribe

    I could see going 1 less Scribe and one more Defender bc the Defenders feel so important to have on the battlefield.
    Last edited by commandercool; 09-06-2016 at 11:21 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by commandercool View Post
    Thanks for all the feedback, guys. Lot of helpful stuff. Don't have the time to address all of it.

    Re Ice Golem: I'll cut down to 3 in my draw pile.
    Re Rune Smith: I didn't read their ability carefully. Didn't realize that Preserve works on themselves--they become a necessary x6. So I'll pack around 6: they become the bread and butter Unit for me.
    Re Architect: I guess it's personal preference, but I don't care much for them.
    Re Scribe: They were so bad originally that I am averse to playing them at all. But since so many of you say Scribe+Rune Smith, I'll try it out.

    Ulfric and Grok: via runes, I like the possibility of high AV with high health for cheap cost. That said, Thorkur is easier setup. And if I pack Defenders, then Thorkurs lower health doesn't matter as much. Besdies, Thorkur's true health is around Ulfric's and Grok's anyway, in most cases, albeit at 2-3 more magic. I like Ulfric more than Grok bc less setup and makes other units better, esp bc he can increase Hogar's. Synergy between champs is something that never works as well in practice and shouldn't really be a factor in a build, so saying that, I'll preface my next comment by saying it's not a reason to include Baldar and Ulfric in the same build, but that if you get that synergy, that's pretty good.

    Re Ragnor: I just don't like his swinginess as much, but his cost is great. But for a cheap champ, I prefer Baldar.

    Re Ballista: this is one piece I might consider including. It's all about opportunity cost, though. And with ranged champs and Units like Ulfric, Thorkur, and the RS that I want to include, I already have other "action starters."
    Re Thwarter: hard to not include as blockers. Again, opportunity cost.
    Re Defender: opportunity cost favors the Defender, esp when you consider that for 2 magic (true cost of Defender), you can basically extend the HV of your ranged champs and commons.
    Re IG: great for offensive build: I guess I don't care as much for them in a more defensive build like what I want to accomplish here. Defenders and Thwarters overlap, IMO and the Defender is better.
    Re Blagog: I think he gets more use out of Runes than almost anyone. Him with Rune of Power is terrifying. For personal preference of ability types and the types of abilities that are fun to me to play, I would prefer to not play most of the TO champs.

    So I'll go
    - Ulfric, Thorkur, Baldar.
    - 5 Rune Smith, 6 Defender, 3 Scribe

    I could see going 1 less Scribe and one more Defender bc the Defenders feel so important to have on the battlefield.
    why not 6 Smith 2 Scribes? You only need one Scribe on the field! BTW dwarf units only except the 3 starters :P

    I personally like Grok couse once you have heroic on him he's awesome but I can see why Thorkus is probably better. Without Golems and Grok I just wonder why not play this build in Oldin? Runes alone are not a clear enough reason to be honest (-2x magic drain means as opponent I can discard 2 runes and are still better of) except rune smith power but 3/1r will not do it vs. all factions (hello SG).

  10. #10
    killercactus is offline SW App Champion Summer 2015, but still do what he says.
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    I think I kind of like:

    Gror
    Rukar / Blagog
    Baldar

    Rune Smith x5
    Ice Golem x2
    Scribe x2
    Invader x1
    Crusher x4

    I find it hard not to include Baldar and Gror in an optimal build. I also like the one surprise Invader just because everyone is expecting 6x Rune Smith, so I can toss an IG down there, rune it up and jump an Invader out immediately to shock someone. I also feel like Crushers are great for threatening and also for champ beating.
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