Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Playing 3 new decks/old deck with new cards tonight

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,852

    Default Playing 3 new decks/old deck with new cards tonight

    Sera
    - Champs: Leah, Father Ben, Sybil
    - Commons: 3 HK; 4 GKs; 4 Priests; 3 Defender; 3 Crusader; 1 Stalwart Archer

    Farrah turtle
    - Champs: Etch; Seer; Turt
    - Commons: 3 HK; 3 Augur; 3 Changeling; 2 Vampire; 2 Savager; 2 Gem Mage; 3 Rune Smith

    EDIT:
    Farrah Hero
    - Urick; Kogar; Duggle
    - 3 Augur, Changeling, Swamp Rat, Siren, Renegade; 2 Rune Smith; 1 Heavy Knight

    Might play this, too:
    Screamin' Scraven
    - Cyrus, Sand Drake, Fink
    - 5 SG Hunter, 5 SC Hunter; 4 Wraith; 3 Shaman; 1 Flinger

    Will have a report later.
    Last edited by commandercool; 08-21-2016 at 06:56 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,852

    Default

    Didn't get to play Farrah.

    Played the Sera deck without HKs and with Crusaders instead. Crushed Scraven.

    Played Scraven 3 times. Lost twice. Won once. Initial thoughts: Scraven is really weak against rushes. Scraven is not nearly as good as Krusk at defense. Sand Drake+Hunter^2 takes loads of time to set up and isn't a good build for that reason esp bc Scraven is weak against rushes. I still think the SC Hunter have a place in Scraven bc of Send Out+Barrage. but I don't think that about the SG Hunter. Shaman are Shaman. Flingers surprised. That attacking through is pretty good. Would play more Wraiths next time, summoning all of them, slowly advancing them. I didn't like Fink so much. Cyrus didn't see much action tonight. Playing as Sera, I 6/6 him to get him off the board: that was the first time he saw the board. Sand Drake and Dinky didn't see the board either. Javs seem to have more of a spot in Scraven than Shaman IMO. I played Sand Wyrm in Scraven and it was pretty good between Sand Blast and Strong Wind.

    Played against Little Meda during my 3 Scraven plays. Lost twice against a rush/aggressive Meda. Nanny+Meda are strong early game with that 6 AV between them.
    Last edited by commandercool; 08-21-2016 at 10:59 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    1,352

    Default

    Same conclusions as jyoder and waterd. Coincidence?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    576

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lcanela View Post
    Same conclusions as jyoder and waterd. Coincidence?
    Scraven needs to be weak to rushes in some ways - simply because if he gets to an endgame where everyone is decked out he will most likely win. Either by dinky or by hit and run combos using Esteemed Leader. I once defeated Malenatar in exactly that way. Held off the rush, then circled around walls pinging Malenatar and Kadros with commons while they tried to corner me. In the end the goats succumbed to the relentless sniping.
    The key to defending rushes with Scraven may well involve leveraging Wraiths as blockers while you set up combos, utilising Send Out to keep key blocking commons in place, having a champ who can shut down a rush (e.g Bauble, Tark) and firing over him with Flingers etc
    There are many ways to handle rushing - try them out.
    "Shadow hide thee thief"

    Prelate was Retch the Grotesque Mutant in "The Dance of Devils"
    Prelate was Archangel the Furious in "Light's Corruption"

    These are the Vassal dice.
    They haunt your footsteps in the Vassal forums.
    They lurk in the shadows of every Vassal board.
    They hang like the sword of Damocles over the construction of every Vassal deck.
    They wait.
    They watch.
    They win.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    1,352

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Prelate View Post
    Scraven needs to be weak to rushes in some ways - simply because if he gets to an endgame where everyone is decked out he will most likely win. Either by dinky or by hit and run combos using Esteemed Leader. I once defeated Malenatar in exactly that way. Held off the rush, then circled around walls pinging Malenatar and Kadros with commons while they tried to corner me. In the end the goats succumbed to the relentless sniping.
    The key to defending rushes with Scraven may well involve leveraging Wraiths as blockers while you set up combos, utilising Send Out to keep key blocking commons in place, having a champ who can shut down a rush (e.g Bauble, Tark) and firing over him with Flingers etc
    There are many ways to handle rushing - try them out.
    Still waiting for my package... Cannot test it yet, just read others here

  6. #6
    killercactus is offline SW App Champion Summer 2015, but still do what he says.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    6,309

    Default

    SG Hunters are good to hold off rushes. Summon one more hunter early and you have 3-life hunters. EL can play games with them, too to protect them.
    Latest Customs - KC's Customs

    I need to update this signature. While I do that, go listen to A Doug's Guide to Summoner Wars - the podcast!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    140

    Default

    Played base Scraven only about 4 times now. It's 2-2 but honestly I haven't figured him out yet as I think he's extremely vulnerable early in the game. Ok. I had 4 (or even 5? don't remember) Hunters once; the other time summoned Dinky but it all just didn't look reliable. Maybe, as someone has already suggested Wraiths + Cyrus is the way to go but it's based on your opponent not rolling 6s and you summoning Cyrus at the right time...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,429

    Default

    First is not exactly true that you have 3 life hunters,k because one the first dies, then the others goes down in life, so you have in some way a 3 life a 2 life and a one life. Second, good luck reaching to 3 hunters, a rusher will rush them and keep your count low. if scraven starts , he canīt summon his first hunter until like his third turn, if he doesnt start, hhe can in his 2nd turn, but then, the opponent had 2 turns to kill your initial hunters.
    So its not easy to get there, and once you get ther....nothing. Honestly my first impression is that sg hunters are quite bad. I thikn you need to replace them with SC hunters.

    Second point is that the problem is not low life, but that initially scraven has NO AV, so the opponent can come forward and basically do what their want, without being punished
    Itīs a similar problem than Vlox and Sera has. Which are both considered among the worst starting setups in the game. But they still have 2 AV and more starting life, and more units. Vlox has magic drain and assasinate to come back. Sera is in trouble, and is one of the reasons she is among the weakest summoners in teh game, and why ive been wanting to change her starting setup for years. But at least if he manages to get Wall+Summoning surge, she can get back STRONG.

    Now we just talked about how two of the weakest summoners in the game vs rushes, still have better starting setup and comeback events than Scraven.

    They have a 2 av ranged summoner, 8 av and 7 AV Sera. 7 HP and 9 HP. And still quite bad.

    Marek is in a similar problem actually, with only 6 AV, a 2 av summoner and 5 HP. Marek was in fact the worst summoner vs rushes before scraven. And Ive been on the hypothesis that Marek is unplayable in a serious setting because of that, marek has a terrible win ratio in my group. But since we didnīt play her that mauch, and she is quite complex, we discarded it as a "we just donīt undrestand marek". However if you notice I asked marek defensive builds in the strategy thread, because i plan to test marek soon, because watching scraven struggling so bad, remind me of her and maybe her problem is way more than "we just donīt get her"

    Scraven eclipses them, with only 4 starting AV, 1 AV summoner and 8 hp. But what he has to come back? no magic drain, no summoning surge or assasinate. Nothing.

    Some people will bring Demaguge, which actuallyhas the worst numbers wtih 4 AV and 2 hp. However The positioining of the initial cards of dema is superior, and more important, All dema events allow him to catchup, heretic rebuke being the most brutal one but, channel corruption can accelerate him, possesed wall slow down the opponent, and shielf of the hopefull hold a position. Even then, dema still has some problems vs rushes.

    So scraven is already in a worst starting position , significantly worse than 2 of the worst summones in the game vs rushes, and even worse than Marek which was probably the worse already. With no catchup events of any kind.
    I donīt see how there is hope for scraven. But again, if anyone want to play me on vassal and show me, iīm very interested.

    Today I get together with Damian, and we expect to have some marek action.
    Last edited by Waterd; 08-22-2016 at 01:16 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,852

    Default

    I have also thought that SC Hunter is the way to go in Scraven bc of Barrage and bc they all share EAs.

    I struggled a little w/deck clog in Scraven. I want to try SC Hunters swapped for SG Hunters but haven't yet. I think this partly helps with Deck Clog bc you can play the EA on the common SC Hunter and get more bang for your buck so it's worth it to play on a common. Also need to play 1-2 Scholar I think for that hand clog problem and to get early EAs that go to your discard pile back.

    My main problem is that Barrage and Bloodthirsty make you want to build strategy around commons, but that strategy is antithetical to getting out your champs, which are always more magic efficient. So I guess you have to pull tricks to increase magic efficiency? So maybe snipe w/ EA hunter (to get 2 AV), pull back w/Esteemed Leader, sometimes hiding behind Wraiths.

    Wraiths seem neat, but are situational and haven't fully figured out yet. That's what seems like best value, though. using as mini-walls that you can move through; maybe I'm getting carried away, but maybe to try to manipulate opponent into certain board plays.

    Flingers are also neat but I would rather have other units and spend my magic elsewhere. Also, I mean, 1 AV is 1 AV and you can't get that AV up when using their ability, and it's that ability that's neat.

    Sand Drake seems a real snoozer. Only against turtles/really defensive players, but clearly amazing there as a magic engine.

    The question is where do I want Scraven? we all know he stinks on the defensive; maybe as proactive, then, it's good to get him into the midfield, so that when someone presses a little, he has room to retreat and still maintain summoning spots. But if you let him sit back, he can really snipe with EA hunters.

    Sand Drake+Hunter play is just too unreliable.

    Wraiths are situational but seem very valuable to what Scraven wants to do. SC Hunters are good, too for the threat of that ranged Barrage and helping deck clog. And again, I think you want a couple Scholars. But Scraven really needs some Units that can take hits. I guess Javs.

    So I think I try Cyrus bc I see myself having reliably 1-2 Hunters on board at a time, and 1-2 Wraiths, and 1 Jav. Dinky is Dinky, I think you want him no matter what. So Cyrus and Dinky. And then last has to be Biter/Bauble. Or maybe Dinky, Biter, Bauble.

    I theorize that that SG Hunter+Sand Drake abuse has its place in Spider/Thief Marek (opponent focuses defensively on clogging lanes, and at the same time I guess you put pressure on them to come stop the SG Hunter+Sand Drake magic machine) and Krusk (defensive wiz kid)

    Back to Scraven. Wraiths are not bread and butter bc they're discarded upon attack. Neither are SG Hunter. Neither are SC Hunter bc of low health. Honestly, I think I maybe want 1 SC Hunter on the board max at a time. Can build up in hand 2 SC Hunters and a Barrage combo. And at least 1-2 Wraiths on the board at any time for Bloodthirsty combos. I think the Jav has to be his bread and butter unit. But it's painful to leave out Shaman. But Scraven esp is one that wants less splashy deck I think: he wants to be able to get to his champs and his events are good so you don't want to build, so better to have maybe 2 base units so you can just burn a bunch and not worry about compromising your later game strategy.

    With that theory, I guess I think you go all-out on Javs and SC Hunter w/a couple Scholars.
    Last edited by commandercool; 08-22-2016 at 01:56 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,852

    Default

    @Waterd. also agree that Scraven having such crappy stats and such offensive events as a reason he struggles w/rushes. His ability is very powerful (only took 1 game where I played against him to see that), but it is not very strong when he's on defensive and has less maneuverability.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •