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Thread: SW second editions project

  1. #201
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    I just want to be clear. I donīt have a Defensive style. I have a winning style. It just happens that when I try to win, the best decision i figure out is to play defensive. I do play Sneeks, Fricks, Mad sirian, and Sam, and I attack with them because they suck at defense, thye just have bad records vs Rallul, Tundle, Grognack, Ellien, etc.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    Ive been looking for that guy for 5 years when we we are supposed to give up?
    Unless you are a time traveller, no one has had the chance to look for 5 years. The complete collection only just being available changes so many decks. I'm not saying in 5 years, your statement won't be true, but you have to wait 5 years to state it again, and even then that is only 1 person's opinion.

    Also, events seem to be the main thing, (not the only thing), that make a summoner really good, or too good at defense/turtle play. My suggestion at 9 new events for summoners can fix some of that.

  3. #203
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    Was it ever the purpose of this thread and this project to get anything official done? I haven't exactly followed it closely, but it seems that this is strictly an unofficial project.

    If it is, than the last page or so of conversations is a moot point.

    If not, than I have bad news for you guys who want it to be official. Summoner Wars has firmly etched itself a spot in the board gaming world as a fun miniature war game with cards and tons of replay-ability that anyone can get into, because it has absolutely no competitive scene. I used to frequent these forums, but I've really started exploring other games, become less involved here to be more involved in other forums, in no small part because I am now working and have money beyond a 10 dollar allowance. Summoner Wars is routinely recommended for people looking for casual two-player games, while not even touched for anyone looking competitive because it has a well-earned reputation for not having quick expansions, and pretty much no errata. Even more so now that, according to most of the people I've talked about with it who don't use this forum, Summoner wars is done, at least for them. By that, they mean they don't want anymore SW. Casual Players don't need a huge box with 40 playable decks, nor do they typically want it; the average seems to be half that, if not less. They enjoy the game, but they really don't want anymore of it; they haven't since Rallul and Demagogue were released. This obviously doesn't hold true for even close to everyone, but it holds true for enough people that it makes an impact.

    Why in the hell does this matter? It matters because if enough people think or decide a game is done for them, than it it is done. I've been listening to podcasts, mostly with Colby and Mr. Vega in them, and while I can't be sure because they aren't about SW, I do remember several offhand comments about SW sales not being what they were, being slow, etc. The game is selling less and less, as by now most people have heard of it and are either casual, in which case they buy decks they want to play, maybe a few more if they like it, and stop buying. Or they are competitive, and the lack of all the errata and the slow release schedule throws them off. Summoner Wars gives no sign of turning competitive. Hell, PHG sure gives that impression with the fact that Ashes is essentially receiving all of that (the releases schedule is faster than SW, ye sits slower than similar games but that is actually supposed to be a selling point, it doesn't bankrupt you).

    Sure, these fixes might tailspin this fact and cause an attitude shift that revitalizes SW with a competitive scene. But how long might that take? How much would it cost? Ashes is already now their go to poster child for a two player high fantasy game that has a good competitive scene. Producing that and putting time and money into that is just bound to be more lucrative. Summoner wars is probably not getting much more, if any, new product, because in all truth, why bother? They have money-makers. They have games that are popular and growing, not waning like SW. Why focus a lot of time and effort and money on turning around SW, when they could focus on Crossroads games, Ashes, Seafall, etc?

    Of course, I could be wrong. SW could very well have a future still ahead. Maybe sales aren't going down for these new SS, that was me mis-hearing things or a comment about a different release. Maybe the general attitude that seems to surround SW really isn't there in magnitude, and there are a lot more silent fans who would happily gobble up more. Maybe there is still a market, and PHG is going to continue SW. They do seem to put emphasis on fun, and if they want to make more SW, I don't think it'll stop. And maybe they do want to make it competitive, so they'll put time and effort into errata.

    But, well, I just do not see it happening given everything I know about the situation the game is in. I love SW, it's the second game I've ever owned and one of my all-time favorites. I will be keeping my collection for life. But I really do believe it's over.

    Btw, I do completely support this project. I think that if a competitive SW community is to be founded, it will almost certainly be fan-based. I see a lot of great errata ideas here, and ones that probably are sorely needed for a more balanced game. And if the entire community is behind the changes, and you guys have the graphics skills to Photoshop in your fixes, than why not? I just severely doubt any official change might happen.
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  4. #204
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    Kburg7, I say many times, most of the matchups barely change from 5 years now. This idea that "new cards" change the game, when the deckbuilding in SW is so limited, itīs not valid.
    Last edited by Waterd; 08-22-2016 at 09:59 PM.

  5. #205
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    Joseph, I agree with your posts 100%, and thatīs why I said I wasnīt interested in thsi project. With that said, Iīm interested in a project, whatever it may be that focus on 20-30 hardcore competitive SW players. And that is my point. so I agree trying to appeal to the 90% is a waste of time.
    The only reason some people want something official, is that is hard to build any live tournaments and ask people ot use proxies for the errata cards, so they want a way to officially print them.
    But since I doubt it will happen, It hink the goal should be to see how we can improve the game for the competitive players without help of PHG.
    Imo that is through new rules, new starting setups.

    With that said, if we are gonna go the route of "unnoficial" cards that need to be proxied or played only on vassal, I say letīs go full steam and remake the whole game as a fan group. Which is what I proposed to commandercool on his "thematic reboot project."

    To me there are 3 paths that donīt involve PHG.
    1. Do nothing: And accept there are 9/10 competitive decks and enjoy it for what it is. (mostly a Taunt war of Tundles, demas and etch, with 1 or 2 agressive decks like Mugg or maybe saturos)
    2. Do a remake that do not involve new cards: New starting setups and new rules
    3. Do a complete remake changing most cards and rules like going full blown into commandercool project.

    And i think those are the 3 reasonable options, because PHG wonīt do crap. So , choose your option I say.

    But if PHG guarantees will help by some miracle someone asked to a genie in a lamp they found in the desert, well, the best course of action is based on how PHG would help, but we need to know IF and HOW it will happen to properly develop the best solution.
    Last edited by Waterd; 08-22-2016 at 09:59 PM.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    Joseph, I agree with your posts 100%, and thatīs why I said I wasnīt interested in thsi project. With that said, Iīm interested in a project, whatever it may be that focus on 20-30 hardcore competitive SW players. And that is my point. so I agree trying to appeal to the 90% is a waste of time.
    The only reason some people want something official, is that is hard to build any live tournaments and ask people ot use proxies for the errata cards, so they want a way to officially print them.
    But since I doubt it will happen, It hink the goal should be to see how we can improve the game for the competitive players without help of PHG.
    Imo that is through new rules, new starting setups.

    With that said, if we are gonna go the route of "unnoficial" cards that need to be proxied or played only on vassal, I say letīs go full steam and remake the whole game as a fan group. Which is what I proposed to commandercool on his "thematic reboot project."

    To me there are 3 paths that donīt involve PHG.
    1. Do nothing: And accept there are 9/10 competitive decks and enjoy it for what it is. (mostly a Taunt war of Tundles, demas and etch, with 1 or 2 agressive decks like Mugg or maybe saturos)
    2. Do a remake that do not involve new cards: New starting setups and new rules
    3. Do a complete remake changing most cards and rules like going full blown into commandercool project.

    And i think those are the 3 reasonable options, because PHG wonīt do crap. So , choose your option I say.

    But if PHG guarantees will help by some miracle someone asked to a genie in a lamp they found in the desert, well, the best course of action is based on how PHG would help, but we need to know IF and HOW it will happen to properly develop the best solution.
    That being so - why don't we ALL email PHG officially and politely (but insistently) to inquire whether anything can or will be done. If their customer service works at all they should at least reply eventually....
    "Shadow hide thee thief"

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  7. #207
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    They will not reply or reply with a classic customer service reply "We Love to hear from you, and we listen to your concerns, and we appreciate your email, we will take your concerns into consideration. We assured we are doing our best to sastify our customers. For the time being PHG have no plans to release any new SW material, but be sure to keep a close look for any future announcements!
    Let us know if we can help with anything else!.

    Have a good time!
    Mike Jhon, from customer service at PHG.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
    The issue will be convincing the 90% of Summoner Wars players that just run base decks that anything needs done. They aren't reading this, but they drove the sales of SW.
    I'm reading this!

    I've been a longtime fan of the game in general, but somewhere around the release of Rallul I mostly lost track of the game's competitive community. It's a really fun game, but its really held back by some flaws in its core economy. I'd certainly love to see some rules that attempt to address those issues, even if only in the form of houserules now that the game is in something that feels like a fairly complete state.

  9. #209
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    Hi, can you explain what you mean with some flaws in its core economy? Interested in hearing a new face comments.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    Hi, can you explain what you mean with some flaws in its core economy? Interested in hearing a new face comments.
    I don't think this is anything resembling a new idea. It's basically just a lot of complicated ways to describe the turtle issue, but essentially the game's economy doesn't benefit from interaction. In other words, spending Magic to summon units costs me more than I can expect to gain from it. Commons in particular come with the issue of just being more valuable to your opponent than they are to you, which is why killing off your own starting Commons is even remotely worthwhile (with Magic Drain of course making that far worse).

    It's just kind of a hard dynamic, as anything that makes attacking opponent units more worthwhile inherently makes it less worthwhile to have units on the table for your opponent to benefit from. I'm sure there are plenty of players with a better handle on the issue than that, but ultimately, my experience is that its a super fun game when both sides commit to having models on the board and attacking each other with them, but the economy doesn't actively encourage that game.

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