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Thread: Competitive Rule Changes

  1. #21
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    First, theree is years of tournaments and challenges and to know those issues exist.
    The evidence at this point is overwhelming, in a court of law we would have an unanimus verdict st this point. I'm sorry that our second challenge was forgotten crimson, what happend last year was that a very personal issue took my full time, and i basically abandoned the internet. If you want we can restart it now, in fact as soon as i finish this post I will send both you and matt 7 games each, do as you wish with them.
    I have time to play everyone on vassal or ios, just let me know.

    SOme games end in stalemate unless ones want to give ev?
    With a few exceptions summoners prefer to defend to attack which leads to a game where you want to convincen your opponent to attack? Yes
    Because point 2 is true etch and stone golems are op? Yes
    Apprentice mage makes some factions op? Yes
    Does rune mages make it some factions can't play forward walls and many consider thst unfun? Yes.

    The denial of this facts has heavily hurt the competitive potential of sw. Because phg never adressed them, lots of competitive players left the game, and the competitive community has 0 chance of growth if the problems aren't adressed.
    So if you do not like the solutions, fine, propose new solutions, but letting those issues unadressed, just will keep eroding whatever small competitive community potential there is.

  2. #22
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    In case you forgot is bo7 7 different factions no fl so or dd and you cant use etch. We have to pick 7 different summoners
    Last edited by Waterd; 08-08-2016 at 10:57 PM.

  3. #23
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    Weird, i cant find your nick crimson, did you change it?

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
    There actually is some data and it was decent, but I still don't like it
    I imagine this was before the new second summoners though correct? I thought part of the premise of these new decks was to add new options to the old decks that people thought were too standard. It seems to me that the new meta needs time to grow before amendments to the rules are made.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    First, theree is years of tournaments and challenges and to know those issues exist.
    The evidence at this point is overwhelming, in a court of law we would have an unanimus verdict st this point. I'm sorry that our second challenge was forgotten crimson, what happend last year was that a very personal issue took my full time, and i basically abandoned the internet. If you want we can restart it now, in fact as soon as i finish this post I will send both you and matt 7 games each, do as you wish with them.
    I have time to play everyone on vassal or ios, just let me know.

    SOme games end in stalemate unless ones want to give ev?
    With a few exceptions summoners prefer to defend to attack which leads to a game where you want to convincen your opponent to attack? Yes
    Because point 2 is true etch and stone golems are op? Yes
    Apprentice mage makes some factions op? Yes
    Does rune mages make it some factions can't play forward walls and many consider thst unfun? Yes.

    The denial of this facts has heavily hurt the competitive potential of sw. Because phg never adressed them, lots of competitive players left the game, and the competitive community has 0 chance of growth if the problems aren't adressed.
    So if you do not like the solutions, fine, propose new solutions, but letting those issues unadressed, just will keep eroding whatever small competitive community potential there is.
    Sure thing Waterd! I'd love to play some more, but we also have to keep in mind the app meta is out of date and that these new decks have only been played by a few people so far.

  6. #26
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    There is no data to support it balances anything and there certainly hasn't been enough data to show that the normal game is unbalanced.
    What do you mean there is no data? there has been dozens of tournaments of summoner wars, and teh top sw players mostly do not deny these issues. Games between t he most winnign players, become in battles the other side to move forward, and generally the one that wins this battle, wins the game. I donīt know a single agressive player that does well. Ive been involved in games with most top players where nobody wanted to do anything. Generally there is some gentleman agreement for the guy that is winning to move forward, except when is my "turn to move forward" i still dont because it means losing ev and ive been called out for that (ad hoc was happy to get a draw vs me in the last tournament i faced him)

    All players that challenge me, both top winning players or casual, have had a negative record vs me. The only historical stain i have in my record in that challenge is KC going 5-5 vs me, on the first years of my challenge. Sadly he refused to challenge me again since. I will be a bad lose and say some 3 of those loses whe me playing Abua vs grognack which i learned is a very bad match for abua. And KC at the time was technically superior to me (I don't think he is anymore). That is the only stain a 5-5 when i have been challenged at least 30 times over the years for this issue. Ive contacted some other top players why they didn't challenge me, and they said"because i agree with you"
    In fact it annoys me a little that oliver post here against the magic walls, It was my understanding that he agreed with me, on the problems t he game has based on conversations and his refusal to challenge me. Olivier, what did i got wrong and why you don't accept my challenge then?

    Every time i get kicked out in a tournaments, i have a great record of getting to finals or seminals and then losing, i remember, and is always against a player sitting back and force me to attack.
    Pantherboy forcing my grognack to attack pinging with luka my walls. Massimo showing how well jexix can play a hit and run game, NAdhir just playing dema and tundle and ralluletch. Dok, playing Nikuyaetch. etcetc.
    I donīt know snalgo games were in the official tournaments, but we played A LOT in playdek beta tournaments, and we would had etchwars all day long.
    There isn't a single player with frequent tournament results that deny these problems, with the questionable exception of KC (and maybe now olivier??).
    Last edited by Waterd; 08-08-2016 at 11:37 PM.

  7. #27
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    I don't think the "new cards fix the problem" argument is valid. Ive heard that argument since before the first master set was released and it never delivered. "The new cards will change the metagame". Maybe but it doesnt change the nature of the game. I've heard the promises of sunder and selundar being able to be agressive. Same i heard that argumetn with frick and NN. These last 8 will be the ones that finally do it? I don't think it will. Maybe saturos and natzga finally are the offensive monsters people claim. But even if that is true, you still have 38 summoners that dont. About half that are supposed to be agressive, and do not work as intended. The only offensive summoner right now that works is Mugg with apprentice mages. And some say defensive mugg with etch is better. (hard for me to believe though).
    What about the games where saturos and natzga arent involved? So all other matchups we live with the problem, and we end with half of the summoners unsuitable to competitive play. Magic wall gives an opportunity to summoners like Sunder, sneeks, Mad sirian a chance to be part of the competitive game. But to me the most important aspect is that makes matches fun even on matches with no aggro summoners, instead of being a slow race to convince the other side to attack, or both sides building the perfect combo or hand for 15 turns, it becomes a tactical game for board control. Which I think itīs more interesting.

  8. #28
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    Something contradictory though is that you think ther eis no issue yet you put in your tournament half the summoners in tier B. If there is no problems, let people pick whatever two summoners they want, and you pick Sera and bolvi, and win the tournament, to prove the world wrong.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    What do you mean there is no data? there has been dozens of tournaments of summoner wars, and teh top sw players mostly do not deny these issues. Games between t he most winnign players, become in battles the other side to move forward, and generally the one that wins this battle, wins the game. I donīt know a single agressive player that does well. Ive been involved in games with most top players where nobody wanted to do anything. Generally there is some gentleman agreement for the guy that is winning to move forward, except when is my "turn to move forward" i still dont because it means losing ev and ive been called out for that (ad hoc was happy to get a draw vs me in the last tournament i faced him)

    All players that challenge me, both top winning players or casual, have had a negative record vs me. The only historical stain i have in my record in that challenge is KC going 5-5 vs me, on the first years of my challenge. Sadly he refused to challenge me again since. I will be a bad lose and say some 3 of those loses whe me playing Abua vs grognack which i learned is a very bad match for abua. And KC at the time was technically superior to me (I don't think he is anymore). That is the only stain a 5-5 when i have been challenged at least 30 times over the years for this issue. Ive contacted some other top players why they didn't challenge me, and they said"because i agree with you"
    In fact it annoys me a little that oliver post here against the magic walls, It was my understanding that he agreed with me, on the problems t he game has based on conversations and his refusal to challenge me. Olivier, what did i got wrong and why you don't accept my challenge then?

    Every time i get kicked out in a tournaments, i have a great record of getting to finals or seminals and then losing, i remember, and is always against a player sitting back and force me to attack.
    Pantherboy forcing my grognack to attack pinging with luka my walls. Massimo showing how well jexix can play a hit and run game, NAdhir just playing dema and tundle and ralluletch. Dok, playing Nikuyaetch. etcetc.
    I donīt know snalgo games were in the official tournaments, but we played A LOT in playdek beta tournaments, and we would had etchwars all day long.
    There isn't a single player with frequent tournament results that deny these problems, with the questionable exception of KC (and maybe now olivier??).
    While this is technically true, and I agree with the overall problems Waterd cites, he has a history of condensing a story down to a false narrative. So let the record show that in our game he was Tundle, I was Sunderved, you got 1 point for drawing (3 for winning), I put enough dice on Tundle to kill him by averages (nine) but the dice were not in my favor, and then retreated into a fortified position where I baited Waterd into a draw (hey, if you get to put your spin on it then so do I ), and afterwards he quit the tournament. So I'd mark that down as a moral victory for me.
    Ad Hoc was Kalon The Great Uniter in Light's Corruption!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thing 2 View Post
    It was probably a tactical mistake to contact Ad Hoc, but boy am I glad I did. This was one of the most fun CoRT games I've played thanks to the Great Uniter.
    Ad Hoc's SW App Player Rankings

  10. #30
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    Regarding this thread, i think that the rules #1 and #2 are great. I don't feel "magic walls" are necessary. Generally - i agree with Waterd. At a certain level (or maybe i should say - at some stage of the tournament) [email protected] and turtling can cause problems. As a side note - I didn't use Etch in Rallul (even in KOTH tourney) however, of course i played as Dema and Tundle.
    Game Center ID: Nadhir 99

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