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Thread: Errata / Changes once all 2nd Summoners are released

  1. #11
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    I find prong quite easier to deal with.
    Bauble I dont know, he seems strong, but unlike Glurblug, Marek is not a big hit in my group so i didnt see much of bauble. Maybe he is the nutos, but i didnt have that experience yet.
    Glurblug Turt is waay more scary than Prong, and Honestly i have nightmares already of thinking of Turt+Natzuga or whatever name she has. I donīt see how you people didnt find that bonkers.

    Fury of godshome makes it impossible to attack rallul. you just canīt, any faction that doesnt have the tools to convince rallul to go to his side, has no chance.
    I would be against banning rallul, he is one of hte most fun summoners out there, Im just sad he is totally bonkers vs some factions. Rallul does the "if you cross this line you are dead" and is totally unfun.
    I think if it only did 2 Wounds it would be fine, and the golem transfer (whic is the most fun part though pretty bonkers too) would remain as powerfull as ever.
    The worst part is that he doesnt need it, he has one of the strongest agressive games out there, His agressive game is very strong, his defensive game is just broken.
    Last edited by Waterd; 05-02-2016 at 10:37 AM.

  2. #12
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    About some cards suggested by Waterd:

    4. Fury of Godshome: maybe you may nerf it in the following way ... "One at a time, remove up to 1 Wound Token from each Wall on the Battlefield ..."

    6. I don't understand the issues with VW and IW, sorry Waterd.

    7. Baldar: if you don't want to change his Ability, maybe you may increase his Cost (by 1? 2?)

    8. Upgrades might go to Discard Pile instead of Magic Pile when Unit is destroyed.

    15. For the "At any time" effects, maybe a clarification like:
    These type of game effects can trigger anytime during the specified turn, but they cannot interrupt a player's action (e.g., drawing cards, summoning a Unit, playing an Event, building cards as magic) nor the resolution of a Unit's movement/attack.
    A game effect that triggers during the specified Phase (e.g., "1/turn, during your Event Phase, ...") is subject to the same limitations of an "at any time" game effect.

    17. Mook: his Ability might become something like " When rolling to attack with a Cave Goblin Unit you control within 3 spaces of this card that has a Cost of 0, add 1 to the number on each of your results rolled during that roll."

    19. (my suggestion) "Moving 0 spaces"
    When moving a Unit, you cannot move with it 0 spaces.

    20. (my suggestion) Runes rule: I would like to see a change like ... "Runes are a special type of Events. When it is played, a Rune must be put face-up under any Unit listed in that Rune's text. A Unit can have any number of Runes under its card at a time, but no more than 1 Rune with the same name. During their Event Phase, whenever they want, a player may spend 2 Magic Cards to discard 1 Rune from under any Unit on the Battlefield. If a Unit with 1+ Runes under its card is removed from the Battlefield for any reason, those Runes must be discarded."

  3. #13
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    And now other ideas:

    x1 PSYCHIC TURMOIL [in lieu of BD x1 A HERO IS BORN]
    Choose an opponent. During the chosen opponent's next turn, at the start of each of their Phases, the chosen opponent must choose to spend 1 Magic Card or skip that Phase.

    GD x2 BESIEGE THE WALLS [changed]
    Each Guild Dwarf Unit that you control may immediately move up to 2 spaces. Units moved in this way cannot move onto or off of any other cards and must end that movement adjacent to 1+ enemy Walls.

    x2 DEMOLISH THE WALLS [in lieu of GD x2 MAGIC DRAIN]
    Each Guild Dwarf Unit that you control may immediately attack 1 adjacent Wall.

    x1 PLANNED DEMOLITION [in lieu of GD x1 A HERO IS BORN]
    You may search your Draw Pile for up to 3 Guild Dwarf Units, each named Ballista or Engineer. If you do, reveal those Units, put them in your Hand and shuffle your Draw Pile. During this Event Phase, you may summon up to 3 Guild Dwarf Units, each named Ballista or Engineer. If you do, you may summon any number of those Units adjacent to 1 enemy Wall. During this Event Phase, you may build magic.

    x2 GREATER MEDITATE [in lieu of DD x2 SUMMONING SURGE]
    Until the end of this turn, Tundle loses the ‘MEDITATE’ Ability. Choose up to 3 cards from your Discard Pile and put them on top of your Magic Pile, rearranged in any order. You may summon Units during this Event Phase. During your Attack Phase of this turn, you can only activate 1 Unit that you control.

    x1 MAJESTY OF THE PHOENIX [in lieu of PE x1 A HERO IS BORN]
    Until the start of your next turn, your Summoner cannot be attacked by Champions and Commons.

    SE x2 INTO THE DARKNESS [changed]
    Discard up to 2 Commons within 4 spaces of your Summoner that have each a Cost of 2−. You may draw 1 card.

    SG x3 TAUNT [changed]
    Choose up to 2 enemy Commons. Place each of the chosen Units on an unoccupied space adjacent to a Sand Goblin Unit that you control within 3 clear straight line spaces of that Unit. You cannot choose Units that cannot move or cannot be moved.

    SO x2 ENSNARE [changed]
    Choose up to 2 Units, each a Swamp Orc Common or any other Common that has a Cost of 2−. Place each of the chosen Units onto an unoccupied Vine Wall that you control within 4 spaces of that Unit.

    x2 BATTLE TRANSCENDENCE [in lieu of TO x1 A HERO IS BORN and TO x1 FREEZE]
    Until the end of this turn, Grognack gains the following Ability:
    FRENETIC
    1/turn, after attacking an opponent's card with this Unit, if that card is destroyed by the attack, Grognack may immediately move up to 2 spaces and attack again."

    x2 SPIRIT OF THE TUNDRA [in lieu of TO x2 REINFORCEMENTS]
    Until the start of your next turn, when an opponent rolls to attack Grognack or a Tundra Orc Unit you control that has the word 'Fury' in any of its Abilities, the attacked Unit only receives Wound Tokens on results of 5+ from that roll."

    x2 DIVINE GIFT [in lieu of VG x2 SUMMONING SURGE]
    This Event may be played at the start of your turn. Place this card face-up off of the Battlefield. Each time you should spend Magic Cards, you may instead put the same number of Wound Tokens on this card. Discard this Event at the end of this turn or if there are 3 Wound Tokens on it, whichever comes first.

    VG x1 A HERO IS BORN [changed]
    Search your Draw Pile for 1 Vanguard Champion. Reveal that Unit, then put it in your Hand or immediately summon it. Shuffle your Draw Pile.

    DD Miner: its Ability might become "At the start of your Movement Phase, if you control 1+ Miners, you may spend 1 Magic Card. If you do, during that Phase, when this Miner or a Unit that you control adjacent to a friendly Miner moves, instead of moving with it, you may place it adjacent to another friendly Miner."

    FK Dragos: replace his Ability with Blood Drain (see Mad Sirian)

    PE SPIRIT OF THE PHOENIX : choose your Summoner or a Phoenix Elf Unit that you control within 4 spaces of your Summoner.

    PE Guardian: +1 LP

    PE Fire Drake: You cannot choose Units beyond a Wall.

    SE Ranger: +1 to both Cost and AV.

    SE Scout: its Ability might trigger at the start of the Movement Phase (instead of the start of the turn, to combo it with Stalking Advance).

    SG Kreep: −1 Cost

    SG Javelineer: −1 LP, and Camouflage becomes "When a player rolls to attack this Javelineer with a non-adjacent Unit, this Javelineer only receives Wound Tokens on results of 6+ from that roll."

    SG Shaman: −1 AV

    SO Mugglug: his Ability nerfed a bit ... "Each time a Unit adjacent to a Vine Wall that you control within 4 spaces of this card is destroyed by an attack, you may place a Vine Wall on the space that the destroyed Unit occupied. Mugglug does not have to roll to move off of a Vine Wall."

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
    A small part of me thinks Rallul and his cards should just be banned entirely (and I'm sure Waterd will say the same about Farrah, especially after today).
    I think it was a mistake to make a "mercenary Summoner". They should have just made a 16th faction. I think it's ok to have mercenaries that are overcosted but fill some niche, like Bounders, Sword Grounders, and Magos. But some of the mercs are just plain good in any deck. I'm talking about Rygos, Hulgorad, plus Etch, Apprentice Mages, and Rune Mages. It's dumb to see these guys in every deck because they are good everywhere.

  5. #15
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    It was a mistake to do mercenaries...its a mistake other games did, it never ends well.

  6. #16
    killercactus is offline SW App Champion Summer 2015, but still do what he says.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    I find prong quite easier to deal with.
    How? Prong is Baldar, except he has to use Vine Walls to make his ability work, but it works 100% of the time. Good SO players can get Prong almost surrounded by vines to the point where attacking him just never does anything.

    The thing about Turt is that if you can't deal with him, you can just run away from him.
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  7. #17
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    I agree that you can just run away from him...but sometimes is very hard to do that., I just dont see how you do it with natzga.

    Prong is not baldar, Vine walls are not that easy to place, and it cost resources, so everytime he wants to prevent damage he needs to spend resources. And is not easy at all to even have adjacent vine walls, when you are targeted by ranged units.
    Maybe you are talking about Mugg+apprentice mage. I donīt play that .
    Last edited by Waterd; 05-02-2016 at 11:02 AM.

  8. #18
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    I've been playing a good amount with Bauble and he dies often enough IMO. Although I don't really think any of those guys truly need a nerf, I think Prong is probably stronger than Bauble.

    Anyway something that bugs me in all these threads: I think there's a real tendency (and not just here, check out any BGG Variants subforum) to overcorrect. Mostly in terms of trying to fix a bunch of units that don't really need fixing. Summoner Wars has so much interaction between cards and sometimes changing one card can improve or nerf others. It's important to test these changes one at a time I think, rather than all as a lump. And I would like it to be a bit more conservative.

    I keep wanting to start an "In Defense of the PE Warrior" thread or something but I think the issue goes wider than that.

    Although seriously: Does anyone really think PE Warriors are overpowered in iElien or Maldaria? I really don't. And they add some interesting tactics that can be fun. I really believe that fixes to Elien's event set will fix Warriors as much as they need fixing.

    Anyway, I love all the ideas that are out there but errata should be kept pretty minimalist shouldn't it? I would like a game where there is at least one viable home for each unit and the summoners are all very close together and have few truly bad matchups, I assume that's what we all want. But actually the game isn't that far from that ideal.

  9. #19
    killercactus is offline SW App Champion Summer 2015, but still do what he says.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterd View Post
    I agree that you can just run away from him...but sometimes is very hard to do that, I just dont see how you do it with natzga.

    Prong is not baldar, Vine walls are not that easy to place, and it cost resources, so everytime he wants to prevent damage he needs to spend resources. And is not easy at all to even have adjacent vine walls, when you are targeted by ranged units.
    Maybe you are talking about Mugg+apprentice mage. I donīt play that .
    Nah, not just Muggs + App Mage (which I don't even really play anymore). I feel like I've been in lots of games where Prong is just surrounded by vines. However, he does have that limitation, and can also only use his ability once per turn I guess. This also holds true of Bauble - so if you can surround these guys, they go down. Baldar I guess can tank even if he's surrounded.

    So that begs the question - what if his ability was just once per turn? I'd hate to have him spend magic... that doesn't feel thematic with a shield and its very similar to Thorkur.

    @umbrage = I agree 100000% about overcorrecting.
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  10. #20
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    I think its just easier to remove life or make him more expensive, if his ability would be just per turn, it would be more manegable.

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