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Thread: FAQ Question - Living Doll - HK

  1. #1
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    Default FAQ Question - Living Doll - HK

    If a HK attacks a LD, it will do enough damage to destroy it, however the LD will be able to trigger Pain Link and do 3 damage to unit or PB.

    If the same LD has Undying Heart, the HK can attack it doing 4 damage and then use Aftershock to destroy it and prevent it from using Pain Link. Could I also achieve this result by using an Anchornaut's Throw ability during the combat?

    Are both of these scenario's valid? The FAQ addresses the second scenario, not the first. I just want to make sure we are playing it right.

    Here is the FAQ for reference:
    Q:When I attack a Living Doll with my Hammer Knight and I choose to place a wound token on that Living Doll with the Hammer Knight’s Aftershock 1 ability, and that wound token would destroy it, can my opponent trigger the Living Doll’s Pain Link ability to deal damage from the damage it was dealt by the Hammer Knight’s attack?
    A: No. Both the Aftershock 1 and Pain Link abilities could trigger from the damage the Hammer Knight deals during this combat. As the first player you may choose to trigger and resolve the Hammer Knights Aftershock 1 ability first, starting an entirely new damage and destruction resolution process for the Living Doll. The Living Doll would follow this process all the way through until it is discarded, and since it is no longer in play, your opponent can no longer trigger and resolve the Living Dolls Pain Link ability.
    ASH01_PHG_Website_Articles_Coal_Cards_Hammer_Knight.jpgjessa2_living_doll.jpgjessa2_undying_heart.jpg

  2. #2
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    Here is how damage works:

    Damage has 3 steps:
    1. Deal Damage -> 2. Place Wounds/Destroy -> 3. Discard if Destroyed

    We can expand this to include the trigger steps:
    1. Deal Damage -> T1. On Damage Triggers -> 2. Place Wounds/Destroy -> T2. On Destruction Triggers -> 3. Discard if Destroyed -> T3. Triggers from leaving field

    In the first scenario, Aftershock and Pain Link trigger at T1. The attacker will resolve Aftershock first. Since Aftershock places wounds, it starts at T2 and Pain Link cannot respond to it. Since the Living Doll isn't destroyed, it resolves Pain Link before wounds are placed on it.

    In the second scenario, let's assume the Living Doll only needs 1 more wound to be destroyed. Throw deals damage, so you would start on step 1, allowing for Living Doll to use Pain Link on the Throw damage. You would then complete the damage resolution and it would be destroyed before you could use Pain Link on the attack damage.

    As for your first scenario. Since the damage from Aftershock doesn't kill the Living Doll, Pain Link will resolve and deal 4 damage.
    Last edited by jamalamba; 12-11-2015 at 11:15 AM. Reason: Added that Living Doll only needs 1 wound

  3. #3
    killercactus is offline SW App Champion Summer 2015, but still do what he says.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamalamba View Post

    As for your first scenario. Since the damage from Aftershock doesn't kill the Living Doll, Pain Link will resolve and deal 4 damage.
    Pain Link would only deal 3 damage here if the Doll doesn't have any alteration spells increasing her life.
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  4. #4
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    If the same LD has Undying Heart, the HK can attack it doing 4 damage and then use Aftershock to destroy it and prevent it from using Pain Link. Could I also achieve this result by using an Anchornaut's Throw ability during the combat?
    Sorry, I was splitting this into 2 scenarios. Yeah killercactus is right, the actual first scenario that Lonewolf posted would be the same as the first scenario I posted, but it would do 3 damage instead of 4 because the Undying Heart isn't on it.

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    I think I might be actually understanding all this! Thanks for the help!

    (Note to self - don't play Undying Heart against Coal!)
    Last edited by Lonewolf; 12-10-2015 at 02:40 PM.

  6. #6
    killercactus is offline SW App Champion Summer 2015, but still do what he says.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamalamba View Post
    Sorry, I was splitting this into 2 scenarios. Yeah killercactus is right, the actual first scenario that Lonewolf posted would be the same as the first scenario I posted, but it would do 3 damage instead of 4 because the Undying Heart isn't on it.
    I'm just glad I got a rule right for a change. It's so weird to be the person that makes all the Summoner Wars rulings, but be so woefully inept at Ashes rulings.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamalamba View Post
    Here is how damage works:

    Damage has 3 steps:
    1. Deal Damage -> 2. Place Wounds/Destroy -> 3. Discard if Destroyed

    We can expand this to include the trigger steps:
    1. Deal Damage -> T1. On Damage Triggers -> 2. Place Wounds/Destroy -> T2. On Destruction Triggers -> 3. Discard if Destroyed -> T3. Triggers from leaving field

    In the first scenario, Aftershock and Pain Link trigger at T1. The attacker will resolve Aftershock first. Since Aftershock places wounds, it starts at T2 and Pain Link cannot respond to it. Since the Living Doll isn't destroyed, it resolves Pain Link before wounds are placed on it.

    In the second scenario, Throw deals damage, so you would start on step 1, allowing for Living Doll to use Pain Link on the Throw damage. You would then complete the damage resolution and it would be destroyed before you could use Pain Link on the attack damage.

    As for your first scenario. Since the damage from Aftershock doesn't kill the Living Doll, Pain Link will resolve and deal 4 damage.
    This is not quite correct. The damage from the hammer kniughts attack can be pain linked if the living doll is not destroyed by the wound token placed by aftershock. Damage is dealt from the attack, pain link triggers, resolve the damage from pain link, damage from attack resolves into wounds and destroys. Living doll is discarded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phuzzworthy View Post
    This is not quite correct. The damage from the hammer kniughts attack can be pain linked if the living doll is not destroyed by the wound token placed by aftershock. Damage is dealt from the attack, pain link triggers, resolve the damage from pain link, damage from attack resolves into wounds and destroys. Living doll is discarded.
    Which one did I mess up on? In the second scenario, I assumed Throw killed the Living Doll (I might have been thinking about the FAQ example when I wrote that). In the first scenario, I have the Pain Link resolving after Aftershock resolves.

  9. #9
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    Yes the second one. It wasn't clear to me that the throw damage was sufficient to kill the living doll, sorry.

  10. #10
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    Ok. I got worried that I still didn't understand damage resolution. I'm editing my post to say the Living
    Doll only needs 1 more wound to clear up any confusion.

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