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Thread: Feels like it's missing something?

  1. #11
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    Oct 2015
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    Another way to look at it, and maybe this is part of what you're feeling, is that in the initial set, the conjurations skew very heavily towards defense. Between Mist Spirit, Gilder, Owl and Monk, there are four different options that let you spend a single die to put a body on the board that can negate a PB attack from any unit.

    If you view dice as the primary limiting resource in this game, it brings to light why Iron Rhino is so "bad" - you invest seven dice into something that takes one die per round to stop. And even if you wanted to just point the Rhinos at their bigger units directly, you can probably only kill 4-5 dice worth of stuff before the Rhino is dead. Similarly, if you want to use Seaside Raven for offense, and the opponent has a pair of one-die books, you're going to need to spend four rounds attacking with your Ravens to make a dice profit, and you still won't have dealt any damage. Meanwhile poor Masked Wolf doesn't even survive being blocked by a one-die conjuration.

    Of course, the answer to this is to support your unit attacks with removal, refreshes and "evasion" in Hypnotize. But coming from other games where the creatures/monsters etc. tend to, just by themselves, kill each other off enough to result in somebody taking damage to the face, having a situation where the unit game is merely even with, if not secondary to, the ready spell game is quite different.
    Last edited by Cetonis; 12-14-2015 at 12:24 PM.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkartzinel View Post
    Hah yes, I rather did like Epic, very swingy, but a blast. I think it needs a larger card pool badly. I may hold onto it and give Maeoni a try if I can find a group of people out here playing it, and I'll watch previews on Rin with great interest. I've also recently tried the Star Wars LCG and found that an interesting in-between of the really tight balance of Ashes and the swingy craziness of Epic.
    Epic will be getting a 120 card expansion in Oct 2016, and a few smaller decks before then, so just give it until Feb or so.
    This is from him.

  3. #13
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    Dec 2015
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    Hello, and thanks for checking back.

    As a fellow tcg and deck build gamer I hope to bring you a bit of my excitement about Ashes. First, let me qualify some of where I come from. I am an MtG Nationals and Pro Tour player (years ago) as well as being a games tester and demoer for a different game company. I, too, enjoy the blow out cards that most games bring to the table and I remember selling my playset of Japanese Foil Jayce, the Mind Sculpter. Those feelings of reward vs. Investment that you are looking for are some of the best feelings that any game gives us. Sometimes what you really want in a game is to have really bold plays that make you feel that powerful exhileration when the pieces come together.

    Now for the sales pitch with hook and justification. Wait no. Why would I sell you the game? There's going to be competitive play and you might be good. I trust my skill but it never hurts to narrow the field. Anyways, Ashes has all of the reward on investment that a person could want. The trick is understanding something a little outdated. Chess has 6 different pieces total on the exact same board with the exact same rules for over one thousand years. Yet the study of strategies, gambits, techniques, and openings has some of the world's greatest gamers glued to a language only they read because there was a game with a series of moves that provokes awe and respect. Ashes is like that only not ancient. The simplicity of the game and mechanics hide a vast and difficult game of intense planning, incredible strategies, and artistic finesse. Once you realize that you can build a deck of three or more colors and you have turn by turn control of your every resource things change rapidly. Sure the precons are basic and unrewarding but you had to start somewhere.

    Try drafting. Try building new decks. Look for a finesse that you can bring life to. Be an artist in destroying your opponents.

  4. #14
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    Dec 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkartzinel View Post
    Okay, I'm really, really not trying to start a flame war here, I'm trying to figure out what I'm missing.

    My background: Longtime ccg (Magic, WoW TCG) and LCG (Warhammer 40,000 conquest) as well as miniatures games (Warhammer 40,000 and Warmahordes) player.

    I finally got to try Ashes last weekend (I pre-ordered it). I love the idea of the game, I really do. Dice rolling is awesome and I love it as a resource mechanic. The solution to the classing timing/response problem is solid. But something is missing. Nothing I really play gets me that excited, we played one game and that was it (Noah v Maeoni). We had a decent time, didn't run into any rules issues, but it just fell flat for us. Part of me wonders if it's a low power curve (as opposed to something like MtG which deliberately has overpowered cards to encourage chasing rares) - so I'm just having trouble getting excited about playing it again. The other guess I had was deck variety, there's just not a huge card pool and since just about all the cards can be used by anyone, has this restricted the design elements too much? Obviously this issue might be solved by future expansions...

    Anyone else running into this? I really wanted to like this game, but it just feels like it's lacking somehow. But I don't want to give up too quickly either, as I like a lot of the design elements, and of course, the art is fantastic.
    So my two cents ... I am an average to above average card player. Ive played Magic, Star Realms, SW LCG, Doomtown, 40k Conquest, Netrunner, L5R, etc. I was immediately drawn to the quality of artwork and the concept of the game. I played once and I liked it. Then I didnt play for weeks because I was more excited about MageWars and 40k. However for my friend I played again with no big desire ... and I loved it and its all we have on our schedule to play for some time to come.

    I think the biggest reason I wasnt drawn to it between games is that the cardpool seemed thin. I dont have tons of cards to pour through and figure out synergies. That was my perception. Anyway, below are my things on what I like and what I think works and why this is probably in the top 2 of our rotation for a while.

    Likes:
    1. Starting cards - I love the mechanic of starting with the cards I think most suit my strategy. I dont have angst over a bad draw and it limits my and my opponents excuses.
    2. Phoenixborn - I love that each main character and style is so unique
    3. Options - I love that I dont feel limited or mana screwed by the options to meditate and manipulate dice to give me options to suit the situation. I always feel there is something I can do. I am really only limited by my strategy/tactic.
    4. Not too many options - At the same time I dont feel the mental strain of how many options I might have, say like Doomtown or 40k.
    5. Dice - Dice are fun but it doesnt feel so random that the game will be dictated by chance
    6. Core play - I havent done any deck building yet but I dont feel limited in the gameplay with just a recommended starting core deck.
    7. Game play - Quick and full actions as well as the back and forth keeps everything engaging. A single full turn allows for a lot of opportunities
    8. Duplicate cards - I like that duplicate spells arent trash but can be stacked for additional benefits.
    9. Quality - the cards are high quality.
    10. The previews - the website has a great preview of phoenixborn game play. Much better than in most games.

    Dislikes:
    1. Deckbuilding - could be my experience but there seem to be fewer cards at this point comparatively so deck building doesnt seem as deep. However ... I also dont need to spend an hour prepping for my next game so ...
    2. Not crazy about some of the phoenixborn ... a little vanilla as far as theme (and I had to say something to not seem like a total fanboy)

    Have never played a plaidhat game before but comparing to other games the gameplay, lack of chance, high quality really impresses me. I really look forward to the expansion decks and getting out to play against others in the plaidhat community. I totally recommend playing this game realizing that fewer spell and minion options in your deck doesnt limit play but expands your command as an opponent. You become more focused on the play versus the individual card and I expect or hope there will be less emphasis on combos and the newest meta or hot deck.

    Hope that helps.

  5. #15
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    Aug 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mephguour View Post
    Dislikes:
    1. Deckbuilding - could be my experience but there seem to be fewer cards at this point comparatively so deck building doesnt seem as deep. However ... I also dont need to spend an hour prepping for my next game so ...
    2. Not crazy about some of the phoenixborn ... a little vanilla as far as theme (and I had to say something to not seem like a total fanboy)
    I think you hit the nail on the head here. The game seems really cool to me, but I just don't like the deck building aspect simply because I don't find any exciting synergy when I do so. Which leads into the vanilla ... the theme of the planeswalkers are just boring. It feels a lot like themes in a million other games that are being reused again. Sure the non phoniexborn units are cool, but I want a cool king to use too. With lackluster lead units and synergy I just have a hard time paying attention, because I dont get the excitement out of making that "special strategy happen" like I do in other games.

  6. #16

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    You might like Warhammer 40k: Conquest. It is similar in many ways (mostly in style) to Magic, but still a completely different game.
    This is from him.

  7. #17
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    Feb 2016
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    Nope, it was very fun for me. I played almost all the card games, and this one is the best along with Magic.

  8. #18
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    Feb 2016
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    Just because a Phoenixborn does not have an attack value does not mean they are low-impact kings on the game. Their abilities or unique cards will significantly impact your strategy and tactical plays and building up synergies is up to you. That goes from the moment you are building/drafting your deck - your Spellboard and Battlefield values should heavily influence your choices there.

    The synergies are more subtle than certain other games where you can build 3-card Combos of Death but they are there. A card like Mist Typhoon or Molten Gold, for example, is much more valuable in decks that can damage a unit as a side action - it will make you able to pile damage on a unit in a single turn before your opponent can react. Again there are certain Phoenixborn who are better at this than others.

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