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Thread: Summoner Wars Declared "Turtle Wars" by World Press

  1. #21

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    I asked a representative of Plaidhat in Essen about the issues with the Rallul mercenaries and they did respond with that they were aware of the concerns in the community & were looking at how to address them (but couldn't say more for now, which naturally makes sense).

    @Joseph:
    Good points about the first summoners. The whole rock-paper-scissor thing is the same reason I'm not that sure changing the first summoners is really necessary.

    Personally I'm not convinced yet that some simple rule changes would not fix most issues. I'd like to see them try some of those minor changes first (add a mechanic to allow draws in games / ban rallul mercenaries / possibly errata a few key cards). I wouldn't like new rules that make promote dynamic / aggressive play the only way to go. With the speed and care changes happen though, I'm not too worried about that .

    Curious: Sluggish walls sounds interesting thematically as it never made sense that attacks would miss walls; what was the problem with it balance wise?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum View Post
    Sluggish walls sounds interesting thematically as it never made sense that attacks would miss walls; what was the problem with it balance wise?
    I believe it made Oldin too powerful, but knowing the rule exists could make some interesting strategies to protect your walls. I think hitting on 2+ might be a good compromise.

    I think banning Rallul mercs helps meta issues, implementing an "if your draw pile is empty and you didn't attack something this turn your summoner takes a wound" helps stalemates and releasing alternate event cards for Elien, Grognack, Oldin and Magic Drain helps less interesting summoners.
    Last edited by Nburghardt; 11-10-2015 at 08:12 AM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quantum View Post
    I asked a representative of Plaidhat in Essen about the issues with the Rallul mercenaries and they did respond with that they were aware of the concerns in the community & were looking at how to address them (but couldn't say more for now, which naturally makes sense).

    @Joseph:
    Good points about the first summoners. The whole rock-paper-scissor thing is the same reason I'm not that sure changing the first summoners is really necessary.

    Personally I'm not convinced yet that some simple rule changes would not fix most issues. I'd like to see them try some of those minor changes first (add a mechanic to allow draws in games / ban rallul mercenaries / possibly errata a few key cards). I wouldn't like new rules that make promote dynamic / aggressive play the only way to go. With the speed and care changes happen though, I'm not too worried about that .

    Curious: Sluggish walls sounds interesting thematically as it never made sense that attacks would miss walls; what was the problem with it balance wise?
    For some, no problem was reported. For others, myself included, it broke a few factions including CG, MV, and GD. I did a test over 15 games with CG/MV/GD each, between the same two players with one player playing CG/GD/MV side 8 times and the other player playing MV/GD/CG 7 times. The off-player, the one not playing GD/MV/CG, would play a different one of the original other 15 summoners. CG went 13-2, losing to GD and MV. MV also went 13-2, losing to GD and DD (I guess Tundle is that good). GD went 15-0, with only a single near-loss against Dema where my dad (GD) played aggressive but drew no BsW. Still pulled it out in the end.

    Thematically, I have never considered missing an attack to necessarily mean "missing" the attack. It could also mean the attack was simply entirely ineffective. Rolling a 1 or 2 on wall, in my mind, represents an attack that didn't do any damage to the wall because it's a huge goddam piece of rock. If you ever have ever tried to cut rock before, you know it's not easy, and it's certainly easy to believe that if you misplace your strike it won't do anything to the wall.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    Thematically, I have never considered missing an attack to necessarily mean "missing" the attack. It could also mean the attack was simply entirely ineffective. Rolling a 1 or 2 on wall, in my mind, represents an attack that didn't do any damage to the wall because it's a huge goddam piece of rock.
    I'm always quoting King of RPGs when someone misses the wall.


    Nburghardt that 2+ to hit on walls is brilliant. I think I'd still add another rule to it though, stating that the increased chance to hit only applies when adjacent. That way Ballistae and other units that excel at hanging back don't get an upgrade that they don't need.
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  5. #25
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    Sluggish walls + Juju + Gorilla copy + Serpent is the problem! Juju One rounding a full live wall. Gorilla + Juju on the same Wall -> dead wall as well! Sure you could rewrite the rule not to be exactly like sluggish to be instead:

    "when this card is attacked and wound markers are placed, add one wound marker for every missed die result."

    but I bring down walls down often enough. I see more a problem with some events promoting turtling way too much (hello phoenix elf warrior, fury of godshroom, Lun and so on)

    Ralluls mercs staying in Rallul would help already. But some cards like Fury of the Godshrome, Freeze, Magic drain (Oldin, Elein) needs to be addressed. I wrote possible fixes lately in the iOS thread, that was possible with 60 cards total. I'm sure a lot of players would buy a double "tournament rebalance" pack if it would improve balance. At least consider the iOS rule set!

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    For a game with such simple rules the solution shouldn't be super complicated. There is a much easier way than convoluted wall-hit modifiers: just say that during Draw Phase if a player does not draw any cards he must place a wound marker on a wall or a Summoner he controls. Thus clock wars and stalemates are a thing of the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarissimus View Post
    For a game with such simple rules the solution shouldn't be super complicated. There is a much easier way than convoluted wall-hit modifiers: just say that during Draw Phase if a player does not draw any cards he must place a wound marker on a wall or a Summoner he controls. Thus clock wars and stalemates are a thing of the past.
    Do you know if this solution is accepted/seconded by KC? I know he wants to implement some (probably unnoficial) small changes and I wondered if this could be one of them?

  8. #28
    killercactus is offline SW App Champion Summer 2015, but still do what he says.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcanela View Post
    Do you know if this solution is accepted/seconded by KC? I know he wants to implement some (probably unnoficial) small changes and I wondered if this could be one of them?
    There's a whole committee working on that, and I'm not a huge part of it, because I don't really feel like it's a big deal. Some on that committee do though.
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  9. #29
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    It's not a big deal to me because I don't stall and I think it's a strategic disadvantage to do so. I do play defensively sometimes (depending on the deck and the situation) but never do I sit there and pass over and over.

    Nevertheless it becomes a problem with you have 2 people who both just want to pass over and over and refuse to make the first move. I would recommend that such people find another game, but part of the problem is that they do and the player base is suffering for it. I think a simple rule like this would help things but in the end it doesn't matter because Playdek doesn't care enough to update the game at any reasonable rate.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
    There's a whole committee working on that, and I'm not a huge part of it, because I don't really feel like it's a big deal. Some on that committee do though.
    A whole committee??? So it is official!!!!!!

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