Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17

Thread: Official Balanced Card Reprints?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    5

    Default Official Balanced Card Reprints?

    Patching allows video games to be balanced post-release (often many, many times). Board Games generally require new editions to fix things.

    Summoner Wars is remarkably balanced considering the scope of the game but there are certainly some units that need tweaking.

    Has there ever been any serious discussion on Plaid Hat simply reprinting cards and making those available for purchase as a sort of patch? If fan-art summoners are purchasable, than why not a full deck with a reprint of all champions that require tweaking to make them more balanced/fair?

    Otherwise, has there been any talk of Plaid Hat creating an official "patch" that lists new stats for existing cards that could be simply implemented during play?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    My Cave
    Posts
    134

    Default

    PlaidHat is smart in the fact that they don't want to piss off their consumer base and that they also are thinking ahead with future cards. They have only reprinted one card and that is because the text didn't say exactly how they intended the ability to work and Oldin was 10x more cancerous that he is now.

    If Plaid were to just buff/nerf cards whenever, think of it back in the day when the Fallen Kingdom was garbage. FK was literally considered utter garbage and playing them was almost suicide vs any respectable deck considering they had literally no range and just the worst commons in the world (hyperbole in this of course). Now, they made Mad Sirian, which introduced Warlocks which became a super mana efficient ranged unit for Ret Talus to use. Had they buffed the shit out of Ret Talus, they wouldn't have had the liberty of making such a cool card and Sirian would now suffer because of this.

    What if they nerfed the hell out Elien because he was just super frustrating? Well, Elien isn't considered top tier anymore, and if he was nerfed back in the day he would be kinda just... total poop.

    My point is that "balancing" the game with reprints can actually totally restrict the design of the future decks and I know you want more balance and everyone in the world does but for that dream to ever come true I will give you the only situation that will cause them to reprint cards that are readjusted:

    - The game has to be finished, no more cards will ever be produced as to not ruin the design and subtle balance changes of the game. Video Games have a really bad habit of power creeping the shit out of themselves, MOBAs being the main villain, as you want to make more and more complicated things to enhance the game, but buffing and nerfing constantly just creates constant, frustrating sways, and with Summoner Wars having something like 1,000+ matchups already, that would be NIGHTMARISH, so no cards can ever be produced ever again is the first point.

    - People would still be playing the game even though no new content is coming out and their would be a demand for balanced cards AND a larger competitive scene in which it will be profitable to balance the cards with reprints.

    Honestly that's really all, but those are big deals. Hold tight, the new cards have been REALLY balancing things out, Alliances was one of the most masterful balance changes I've ever seen in any game and I can play almost every faction in the game and confidently say that I can compete with any other Summoner. Anything that is under-powered (are far worse problem than anything being over-powered) will hopefully be resolved by final Second Summoners/2nd Alliance Summoners.
    Oh no.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Fairfax, VA
    Posts
    520

    Default

    I too agree that this game is impressively balanced. It's fascinating how releasing new decks can make units viable. It demonstrates incredible creativity on the part of Colby & team.

    On the other hand, I would love to see some alternate events to make Elien, Grognack, Oldin and Magic Drain more interesting to play.

  4. #4
    killercactus is offline SW App Champion Summer 2015, but still do what he says.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    6,309

    Default

    Just so you guys know, if and when cards stop being made, my plan is to do a few things on my own that won't be "official", with hopefully some community help to playtest just like we do now (again, not that I think.its really necessary, but I know the community wants it), like:

    - alternate events for Elien, Grognack, Oldin, and possibly Sera
    - a Vanguard common with 3 life
    - a Cave Goblin unit to help boost Sneeks a bit
    - Stuff for Torgan and Bolvi (possible alternate cards or just new stuff) and maybe also Queen Maldaria
    - possibly more complete factions

    That would be a fan project though that I'd try to continue heading up
    Latest Customs - KC's Customs

    I need to update this signature. While I do that, go listen to A Doug's Guide to Summoner Wars - the podcast!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Fairfax, VA
    Posts
    520

    Default

    KC, have you forgotten the honor guard? Poor guy gets overlooked with that 1 die attack.

    Looking forward to seeing your ideas. VV are a well designed team.

  6. #6
    killercactus is offline SW App Champion Summer 2015, but still do what he says.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    6,309

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nburghardt View Post
    KC, have you forgotten the honor guard? Poor guy gets overlooked with that 1 die attack.

    Looking forward to seeing your ideas. VV are a well designed team.
    I should've said "3 life common that helps Sera generate some more attack" This might not need to happen though...
    Latest Customs - KC's Customs

    I need to update this signature. While I do that, go listen to A Doug's Guide to Summoner Wars - the podcast!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    2,539

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
    Just so you guys know, if and when cards stop being made, my plan is to do a few things on my own that won't be "official", with hopefully some community help to playtest just like we do now (again, not that I think.its really necessary, but I know the community wants it), like:

    - a Cave Goblin unit to help boost Sneeks a bit


    That would be a fan project though that I'd try to continue heading up
    I know I come from a place of extreme bias but I think with Clingers most of Sneeks' worst matchups have been evened out a bit. He's not top tier by any means, but with everything added to this point I think he is pretty strong, atleast in my eyes.

    Yes on alt Grog/Elien/Oldin/Sera events. I'd go ahead and say Grog could use a rules update as he is still the most powerful summoner stats wise and has a huge ability.


    I'd like the get a 2nd set of reinforcements for everybody, just so we can GET A PALADIN FOR VANGUARD. Also, rename the Shamans. Atleast make the JS Shaman a Druid

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    576

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
    Just so you guys know, if and when cards stop being made, my plan is to do a few things on my own that won't be "official", with hopefully some community help to playtest just like we do now (again, not that I think.its really necessary, but I know the community wants it), like:

    - alternate events for Elien, Grognack, Oldin, and possibly Sera
    - a Vanguard common with 3 life
    - a Cave Goblin unit to help boost Sneeks a bit
    - Stuff for Torgan and Bolvi (possible alternate cards or just new stuff) and maybe also Queen Maldaria
    - possibly more complete factions

    That would be a fan project though that I'd try to continue heading up
    I would be 100% in support of this - and would offer to help playtest anything with my friends this side of the great sea....

  9. #9

    Default

    I asked a pretty similar question a few months ago, see waterd's reponse at the time:
    http://www.plaidhatgames.com/sum_for...412#post110412

    (I tend to agree with waterd's argument there that it shouldn't be a problem to charge for revisions, especially if these are extremely rare)

    Harlow
    I don't mind that Plaidhat is balancing older factions by adding well-designed new factions that also have some benefits for the older factions. And 'balancing' can definitely restrict the design of future decks. I'd argue though that not 'balancing' can restrict the design of future decks just as much, so I don't think that second argument is very relevant.

    More importantly though, I don't agree with the argument that the only situation to balance is when no more cards will ever be produced. Mainly because not doing any balancing the chances of a larger (competitive) scene are reduced, which in turn would make it less likely it's worthwhile to ever bothering balancing at all.

    From my perspective balancing (for board games like these) should be done sparingly and where it's really needed. Yes, it would require very careful testing because of all the possible match-ups, but the same applies to releasing new factions, so I don't think that's a reason not to do so. And yes, it is impossible to balance everything perfectly, so I think balancing should not have as a goal to create a perfect balance, but rather to bring some cards in line that are way more unbalanced then you ever intended them to be. And no, not every faction is as competitive as every other faction; why this is even a discussion is something which is hard for me to understand. Personally I don't mind that aspect of the game, it's fine that some factions are worse then others; as said before perfect balancing is impossible / not something to strife for.

    Also note that some balancing can be done by introducing for instance competitive rules, which is not something which would even require revised cards.

    In short: There is a middle road between no balancing / not doing much / not communicating much about something which is clearly relevant to a portion of the players and having a revised card set every few months (or even every year). And I think we as a community are being counter productive by defending Plaidhat on that. Instead I'd very much prefer us as a community helping them (which is done here ofcourse) / pushing them to at least communicate about what their plans are.
    Last edited by Quantum; 11-05-2015 at 06:16 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    My Cave
    Posts
    134

    Default

    Vanguards just need a 2 attack 2/3 life common that has an ability that actually DOES something. All the commons that have 2 attack in that whole factions are Warrior Angels, Calvary, and Woeful Brothers, all being 2 costers and Angels +Calvary basically doing NOTHING to fit the theme of the factions besides being able to maneuver crowds easily or crowd easily. Vanguards emphasizes positioning huge amounts of units together to maximize their efficiency, but the concept of that just doesn't work in the game, you just end up having a ton of magic drained and reinforcements called when you try to make a large, beneficial formation.
    Oh no.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •