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Thread: More questions on triggered effects

  1. #11
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    Oct 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by albino_penguin View Post
    I'm pretty sure active player doesn't matter in the sympathy pain example. A reaction triggered on damage resolves before the wounds from that damage occur. So if a second sp is played in response to the first sp's damage, the second sp's damage resolves to wounds first, then the first sp' damage to wounds, then the original damage to pb that started this resolves to wounds.

    Check out:
    http://www.plaidhatgames.com/sum_for...aneous-effects
    Yup, but then it doesn't follow this order:

    Damage is it's own subsequence: Assign Damage -> Effects that trigger on damage -> Place wounds and destroy the Unit if necessary -> Effects triggered on destruction
    If this order held, then the last Sympathy Pain would resolve to wound tokens first. However, it seems like the ruling is the Active Player decides which damage effect resolves to wounds first.

  2. #12
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    Read the link. Last sympathy pain resolves first.

  3. #13
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    Oct 2015
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    Oh you're right, I misunderstood a different example. Thanks

  4. #14
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    I'm not sure I agree with your Sympathy Pain vs. Sympathy Pain example albino_penguin. (and obviously I could very easily be wrong and you're right.) Has Phuzzworthy confirmed your interpretation?

    I feel it is either:
    A. The damages from SP vs. SP are 'simultaneous damage', in which case AP chooses wound priority.
    or
    B. The damages from SP vs. SP are not simultaneous, in which case "each effect that could be triggered must be resolved completely before the next effect that could be triggered is resolved". The first SP would resolve completely (saw Phuzz say something like damage resolves completely to wounds, seems the only caveat is with simultaneous damage. Thats why battle advantage works, damage there completely resolves to wounds before the other unit can do damage, non-simultaneous. maybe here is my misunderstanding...), and the first SP played would resolve to wounds before the effect of the second SP start resolving. The first SP would go first.

    Thoughts? Phuzzworthy? is SP vs. SP simultaneous damage?

  5. #15
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    Aug 2015
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    They aren't simultaneous effects because they didn't trigger at the same time. SP 1 triggers on damage from some source, then SP 2 triggers off the damage of SP 1.

  6. #16
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    Here is a good simultaneous (or not) test for you:

    1 - P1 deals damage to PB2 (e.g. stormwind sniper)
    2 - P2 plays SP and damages PB1
    3 - P1 plays SP and damages PB2

    If you removed action 2 (P2 doesn't play their SP), could P1 still play SP? No. The trigger hasn't occurred that would allow him/her to do so. Their 'trigger' points are not the same, they are not simultaneous.

    Here is a simultaneous example (going off card abilities by memory):

    1 - P1 (PB1 = Jessa) destroys one of P2's units.
    2 - P1 activates Jessa's PB ability to damage PB2
    3 - P2 plays the Final Cry reaction to damage PB1

    If you remove action 2, 3 could still continue - both reactions/abilities trigger off unit destruction, they are occurring at the same time, off the same trigger - they are simultaneous. Active player would decide which reaction/effect to resolve first.

    To quote Bob from the above referenced post:

    "... Like it was stated above for golden veil to work each effect that could be triggered must be resolved completely before the next effect that could be triggered is resolved, and all of the effects that could trigger must resolve before completing the resolution of the triggering event ..."

    So a SP that triggers on damage, resolves fully to wounds before the 'trigger' damage resolves to wounds. There is not a simultaneous event here, rather a:
    Trigger (damage) > Reaction to trigger (SP, deals damage, resolves to wounds) which is fully resolved > Continue the resolution of the triggering event (resolve initial damage to wounds)

    Bob confirmed this:
    "So in the above example sniper deals damage (no wounds placed) P2 plays sympathy pain, sympathy pain is completely resolved through till destruction of P1's Phoenixborn. P2 wins."

    In the double SP example it is confusing, because there is a 'stack' of triggering events. But each SP is triggered off a different damage 'trigger' and the principle of fully resolve the reaction before the trigger still holds true:
    Trigger 1 (damage) > Reaction to trigger 1 (SP, deals damage) which sets off trigger 2 (damage) > Reaction to trigger 2 (2nd SP, deals damage, resolves to wounds) which is fully resolved > Continue the resolution of the trigger 2 (resolve 1st SP damage to wounds) > Continue the resolution of the trigger 1 (resolve initial damage to wounds)

    Either that or I am going mad, both are possible :P

  7. #17
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    albino_penguin has it right.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by albino_penguin View Post
    Either that or I am going mad, both are possible :P
    Well... it would be nice to have some company, as at this point I feel I am going bat-scat crazy ; ). It is such a good thing only 1 reaction is allowed per player per turn, or I would completely lose my mind!
    Thanks Bob. Thanks penguin, I shall (attempt to) never doubt you again.

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