Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 19 of 19

Thread: Clarification on simultaneous effects

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Vickery, OH
    Posts
    153

    Default

    Player1 attacks a Phoenixborn with Unit 1, Player 2 blocks with Unit 2 that has spiked armor attached to it.

    P2 decides to counter with U2.
    U1 deals its damage to U2 and U2 deals its damage to U1 at the same time.
    Spiked Skin triggers and resolves dealing 2 damage to U1, then wound tokens are placed on U1 and if the wound tokens are equal to its life value destroy U1 and discard U1.
    P1 decides to resolve the damage for U2 first. Place wound tokens on U2 for the damage it has been dealt and destroy U2 if the wound tokens are equal to its life value. Discard U2 if it was destroyed.
    Now resolve the damage for U1. Place wound tokens on U1 for the damage it has been dealt and destroy U1 if the wound tokens are equal to its life value. Discard U2 if it was destroyed.
    Finally place an exhaustion token on U1 and U2 if it survived the battle.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pbeaudet View Post
    So with a defender with spike armor it could kill the attacker of 2 health before attacker gives him wound tokens?
    I think what happens is the damage from spiked armour occurs simultaneously with the damage from the attacking/counterattacking unit (check card wording). Active player then chooses which wounds to play first, although both lots of wounds will be played.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phuzzworthy View Post
    OK, so this question keeps popping up, I'm not sure how to make it clearer, but I'll try again.
    Thanks for this. I had read a few things that seemed to imply the two damages were simultaneous which made no sense to me. This has helped.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    340

    Default

    So if I'm understanding correctly, the damage from an attack by said Stormwind Sniper would resolve before Sympathy Pain.

    Is there a reason why it's different when you use an ability for the damage than when attacking? It seems odd, damage should be damage, plus it's not favoring the active play, which was a reason given for the attacking ruling.
    Orc.....Elf.....Army.....One
    OrcElfArmyOne on Heroscapers, iOS, and Vassal as well.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by orcelfarmyone View Post
    So if I'm understanding correctly, the damage from an attack by said Stormwind Sniper would resolve before Sympathy Pain.

    Is there a reason why it's different when you use an ability for the damage than when attacking? It seems odd, damage should be damage, plus it's not favoring the active play, which was a reason given for the attacking ruling.
    The difference is not that attacking damage is different to ability damage, it is a question of what is simultaneous and what isn't.

    When attacking/counterattacking, if damage is simultaneous (spiked skin example), then wounds are resolved in active player's order.

    With the Stormwind Sniper ability damage / Sympathy Pain example, because the reaction (Sympathy Pain) is a reaction to damage, my understanding (from Phuzz's post) is the order is:
    1. Damage from SW Sniper (attack or ability). Wounds not placed.
    2. SP triggers on damage. As it is a reaction card, we resolve it fully (3 damage on PB/unit, resolve damage to wounds) before continuing with the process initiated by the trigger (resolving SW Sniper damage to wounds). Three damage is thus dealt and wounds resolved.
    3. Now the reaction is done, we continue by resolving the SW Sniper's damage to 2 wounds.
    Thus, if both PB's were 2 wounds off death, the Sympathy Pain PB would win. In this case, there are no simultaneous effects that require the active player to decide resolution order.

    This makes sense. If reaction cards didn't resolve before the effects of their trigger, Golden Veil would be useless (I play spell (say out of the mists), you react with Golden Veil, I choose to resolve the effects of the spell (kill your unit) before resolving the GV).

    An example of simultaneous damage resolution would be (I think).
    One of my units is destroyed. I play the reaction spell Final Cry. You (Jessa) activates your PB ability to deal damage to my PB based on my unit leaving play. Assuming the damage from both of these is enough to win, the active player would choose which of these simultaneous actions to resolve first (and would choose their reaction/ability and win). I am not totally sure on this example, I would have to check card wording/rules to make sure the triggers of the FC reaction and Jessa's ability are the same (is destruction simultaneous to leaving play?).

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phuzzworthy View Post
    OK, so this question keeps popping up, I'm not sure how to make it clearer, but I'll try again.

    Damage from a battle is simultainious, if it helps, when damage is dealt place wound tokens next to the unit's and/or Phoenixborn that are being dealt damage.

    After damage has been dealt, the active player chooses what unit or phoenixborn will have it's damage resolved first (note that during an attack a phoenixborn action, each attacking unit will have it's attack resolved one at a time, so only one attacker and its blocker, if there is one, will have damage waiting to be resolved).

    When resoving damage, follow the steps of damage completely to resolution (recieve damage, wound tokens placed and the unit or Phoenixborn is destroyed if there are enough wound tokens (this is one step because destruction happens immediately when there are enough wound tokens), then if the unit is destroyed discard that unit).

    If an effect triggers from one of these steps, completely resolve that effect before moving onto the next step, if multiple effects could trigger the active player choose one of those effects to trigger and resolve, that effect is resolved completely, then the active player continues choosing effects that trigger and completely rolving them until all effects have been resolved that could trigger. If the effect deals damage that effect is completely resolved (all 3 steps) before completing the damage resolution of the current unit or effect.

    So in the above example sniper deals damge (no wounds placed) P2 plays sympathy pain, sympathy pain is completely resolved through till destruction of P1's Phoenixborn. P2 wins.
    So orcelfarmyone's example from the "LF Official word on procedure and timing or triggered effects and Resolving Damage" thread was:

    Just a quick question, so if I kill Saria and then she uses Sympathy Pain, that will be considered a draw right?
    It would be pretty bs to give me the win for having it be my turn, which is the current ruling iirc. Especially based on this new ruling.

    If we both receive wound tokens at the same time, it should be a draw.
    You said that the active player decides the order in which the wounds are placed, so the non-active player loses. With what you are saying now, Sympathy Pain would kill the other player first regardless of who's turn it is.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Vickery, OH
    Posts
    153

    Default

    That is correct. Like it was stated above for golden veil to work each effect that could be triggered must be resolved completely before the next effect that could be triggered is resolved, and all of the effects that could trigger must resolve before completing the resolution of the triggering event.
    Quote Originally Posted by albino_penguin View Post
    An example of simultaneous damage resolution would be (I think).
    One of my units is destroyed. I play the reaction spell Final Cry. You (Jessa) activates your PB ability to deal damage to my PB based on my unit leaving play. Assuming the damage from both of these is enough to win, the active player would choose which of these simultaneous actions to resolve first (and would choose their reaction/ability and win). I am not totally sure on this example, I would have to check card wording/rules to make sure the triggers of the FC reaction and Jessa's ability are the same (is destruction simultaneous to leaving play?).
    This is a perfect example of simultainious damage that matches the active player choosing the order of resolution and winning because of it.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Denver-ish CO
    Posts
    105

    Default

    (Sorry to be annoying with so many ?'s when you have answered 7000)
    So ONLY damage from attacks is simultaneous?
    If Both PB play Sympathy Pain (P1 is using the damage from SP to trigger their SP) , that damage is not simultaneous? The first SP resolves fully, and the winner could be decided by who could play SP first, not by who is active player?

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    61

    Default

    Here is how I understand it (it helps to break things down).

    1. Initial Action - P1 (with a SW Sniper) deals Damage A - No wounds placed

    2. Reaction to Damage A - P2 plays SP, deals Damage B - No wounds placed

    3. Reaction to Damage B - P1 plays SP, deals Damage C - No further reactions

    4. Fully Resolve Damage C - P1 resolves Damage C to wounds (game end?)

    5. Fully Resolve Damage B - P2 resolves Damage B to wounds (game end?)

    6. Fully Resolve Damage A - P1 resolves Damage A to wounds (game end?)

    So the second SP (Player 1) would win. Why? because the second SP (SP2) is triggered off the first SP's (SP1's) damage, SP2 resolves fully to wounds before SP1 does, however SP1's damage would resolve to wounds before it's trigger (SW Sniper damage) resolves to wounds.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •