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Thread: LF Official word on procedure and timing or triggered effects and Resolving Damage

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
    FWIW, I disagree with you guys pretty hard. The "active player / same time" rule is a very elegant way to resolve these types of timing disputes. Without it, you need a FAQ or errata for every same time situation in the game. In an expandable card game that will have thousands of card interactions, this really saves a lot of headache. It's worked very well for Summoner Wars, which has cards that get into this exact situation by the way.

    The only other thing out there that could be done is a rule / faq that says in two Phoenixborn ever die simultaneously, the game is a draw, but I don't see that as necessary at all.
    I like this way too. It makes a lot of rulings easier without having to consult an FAQ. Plus, Sympathy pain is already a great card, no reason it allows the game to crawl to a draw as well.
    Winter is Coming...

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamalamba View Post
    Sorry to go off the current topic, but I wanted to confirm something about the above example. Since wounds haven't been placed at the time that Sympathy Pain was activated, Jessa would be able to use Redirect to place the counters on her doll even though it has already received enough damage to kill it. The active player can't destroy the doll from the damage until after all triggers have completed and the wounds are placed, right?
    Correct jamalamba.

  3. #23
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    Also, I want to add one of the things I like about Ashes is the simplicity of rulings. I find that SW got bloated with a lot of complex interactions requiring FAQs in the later sets but at least its not on FFG or Magic's levels. The cleaner and more definite the rulings (fewer 'if-else-then'), the better. I hope they continue to proof-read and playtest this properly. IMO, FFG's Warhammer Conquest LCG is already starting to pileup some complex rulings and it just finished its first cycle.
    Winter is Coming...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phuzzworthy View Post
    2) Action is incentivised. Since most of your actions are taken on your own turn, you are encouraged to take action rather than respond, since mutual destruction happens most often after action is taken. This means that if a chain happens as a result of actions you took on your turn that result in simultainious destruction, you are rewarded for that action rather than penalized for it.
    this in my opinion is the best reason for this design choice. it rewards action and risk taking rather than inaction.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phuzzworthy View Post
    The simultainious destruction also came up over a year ago. It was decided that the active player winning did at least 3 positive things for the game.
    1) A game never ends in a draw. Many players are very put off by any game that allows for a draw, and in fact many consider chess's largest flaw to be stalemates. With destruction being an effect and the active player deciding the order in which they resolve, a game of Ashes will never end in a draw.
    2) Action is incentivised. Since most of your actions are taken on your own turn, you are encouraged to take action rather than respond, since mutual destruction happens most often after action is taken. This means that if a chain happens as a result of actions you took on your turn that result in simultainious destruction, you are rewarded for that action rather than penalized for it.
    3) It makes the rules easier, more elegant, and more streamlined. Obiviously game play should not be sacrificed just to make the game easier, but combined with the 2 points above, designing the rules in a way that is easy to explain and adjudicate lowers the barrier of entry for players, and leaves far fewer questions about how things work in the end.
    Thanks for the explanation of this ruling. I agree with the ruling now.

  6. #26
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    I wanted to clarify something. There will never be a draw in a game of Ashes played to completion. For competative play, timed rounds are a necessity, this may cause a draw in some cases. Hopefully this is kept toa minimum, and it's likely finals will be untimed to allow a non-debateable winner of the tourney in the future.

  7. #27
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    OK, let me see if I have the sequence right. Attackers and blockers have been declared. The sequence goes:

    • Combatants inflict damage on each other based on their attacks. Technically, wounds are not yet placed.
    • Powers or reaction cards that trigger on damage being dealt are played. If there is more than one, the active player decides the order of play. Wounds, if any, still haven't been placed.
    • Wounds are placed.
    • Units/Phoenixborn are destroyed. If order of death matters (e.g. both Phoenixborn would die at this stage), the active player decides the order.
    • Powers ore reaction cards triggered on figure destruction are played. If there is more than one, the active player decides the order of play.
    • Exhaustion Tokens are placed on the active combatants.


    Anything wrong/incomplete there?

  8. #28
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    Bullet point 3) active player chooses a unit or phoenixborn to resolve damage on, wound tokens are placed on that unit/phoenixborn if wound tokens are equal to life value that unit/phoenixborn is destroyed. If a unit is destroyed it is placed in the discard pile or conjuration pile. If a phoenixborn is destroyed, it's controlling player is eliminated.
    4) reactions and powers that trigger on wounds being placed or destruction are resolved in the order of the active players choice. If those effects trigger other reactions or cards those are resolved in the order of the active players choice.
    5) exhaustion tokens are placed on surviving active combatant.
    6) if there is one or more attackers that have not resolved their attacks, the active player chooses the next attackers attack to resolve, then returns to bullet point one. If no attackers attacks remain unresolved the attack action ends.

  9. #29
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    Wait, so placing wounds and destruction are considered one step, and all effects that happen for either of them trigger at the same time? Also, in the case that you are attacking a unit with multiple attackers or both combatants survive, are Exhaustion tokens placed simultaneously or does the active player get to choose the order in which they are placed.

  10. #30
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    OK, so merging that in... for each attacked unit or phoenixborn (active player chooses the order of combats in the case where there are multiple defenders):

    1. Combatants inflict damage on each other based on their attacks. Wounds are not placed yet.
    2. Powers or reaction cards that trigger on damage being dealt are played. If there is more than one, the active player decides the order of play. Wounds, if any, are still not placed.
    3. All wounds from the previous steps are placed on damaged units or Phoenixborn; active player chooses which units or Phoenixborn receive their wounds first. Units are destroyed immediately when they receive enough wounds.
    4. Powers or reaction cards triggered on figure destruction are played. If there is more than one, the active player decides the order of play.
    5. Exhaustion Tokens are placed on the surviving active combatants.


    So, by my reading, if an Iron Worker and a Silver Snake destroy each other in combat, and there is no other Silver Snake on the board, the Iron Worker goes to discard and is not removed from the game, because Consume triggers in step 4, and the Silver Snake is already gone in step 3. Correct?
    Last edited by dok; 08-12-2015 at 02:46 PM.

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