The Book of Deceivers

[Phoenixio]

The Book of Deceivers
Common of the Benders - Master Set

Bio: What part of your mind tells your feet to move? What part tells your arms to raise your sword and attack your foe? Look at that part of your mind and see it for what it is: naked and exposed, the willing tool of the Deceiver. It is not yours. Not anymore.

Rulings and Clarifications
Q: If a Deceiver is killed after the beginning of the turn, but before moving or attacking with a Stunned unit, is that unit un-Stunned?
A: No. Stun triggers at the beginning of the turn. If for whatever reason a Stunned unit or the Deceiver move or die during that turn, the Stunned unit is still Stunned.

Q: If a unit was adjacent to a Deceiver at the beginning of the turn, but the controller of that unit changes during the turn (Gulldune, Mind Control), can that unit move and attack this turn?
A: No. The unit was Stunned at the beginning of the turn. Even if the controller of that unit changes, the unit is still Stunned.

Q: How does Chant of Negation work on the Deceivers?
A: Chant of Negation doesn't un-Stun a unit. However, when played, it will block Deceivers from using Stun in their turn. Chant of Negation is up until the beginning of the next Jungle Eves turn, so at that moment, the Jungle Elves player could decide to negate the Stuns before Chant of Negation kicks out.

Community Contributions
N/A

[Quintaton16]

I love these guys. Walk them up next to an Elephant or a Jungle Guard, then watch as the opponent has to kill his own 4-life Unit just to unblock the center of the board. Comboed with Controllers, they can beat any Common Unit in the game.

[Sera Eldwyn's boyfriend]

I also can't wait to see the Decievers in action. They are gonna be a pain in the neck to kill. Especially if you have the Deceiver bottlenecked in your starting zone so your opponent can't kill them.

[killercactus]

I'm sorry to bring up these little corner-case situations, but I figure we might as well address them now rather than later.

If I begin a turn with Kaeseeall or Scagg adjacent to a Deceiver who is also adjacent to a Common Unit I control, what happens when I use Blazing Conscription / Curse on the Deceiver? Can my Common Unit move and attack this turn?

Do I get to activate my abilities before Stun, since it's my turn?

[Phoenixio]

I'm sorry to bring up these little corner-case situations, but I figure we might as well address them now rather than later.

I plan on doing the Books of MS factions as soon as they get out exactly for that reason: to get the questions while they're fresh in people's mind. No worry there, the question is legitimate.

If I begin a turn with Kaeseeall or Scagg adjacent to a Deceiver who is also adjacent to a Common Unit I control, what happens when I use Blazing Conscription / Curse on the Deceiver? Can my Common Unit move and attack this turn?

Do I get to activate my abilities before Stun, since it's my turn?

Stun, Curse and Blazing Conscription all trigger at the beginning of the turn. Since it is your turn, you choose in which order the abilities take place. You could very well kill/take control of the Deceiver before it Stuns your units. The terminology on Stun isn't that clear, but it's actually the same as for Chant of Negation (when it wears off versus Stun).

[sitnam90]

I think ranged commons will be vital against these guys. If you try to kill it with a melee unit then you have a chance of wasting that unit for no gain

[pcal]

I'm fairly confused by the clarification on the Chant of Negation:

Q: How does Chant of Negation work on the Deceivers?
A: Chant of Negation doesn't un-Stun a unit. However, when played, it will block Deceivers from using Stun in their turn. Chant of Negation is up until the beginning of the next Jungle Eves turn, so at that moment, the Jungle Elves player could decide to negate the Stuns before Chant of Negation kicks out.

Chant of Negation says that it lasts "until the beginning of your [i.e., the Jungle Elves] next turn."

So it seems to me that the question is whether Chant of Negation wears off before the Jungle Elves' units "begin a turn" (which is when you check to see if Stun applies).

The current clarification doesn't really clarify this (or in any event it still isn't clear to me).

Thanks.

[thenightsshadow]

I'm fairly confused by the clarification on the Chant of Negation:



Chant of Negation says that it lasts "until the beginning of your [i.e., the Jungle Elves] next turn."

So it seems to me that the question is whether Chant of Negation wears off before the Jungle Elves' units "begin a turn" (which is when you check to see if Stun applies).

The current clarification doesn't really clarify this (or in any event it still isn't clear to me).

Thanks.

Sure. Deceivers' wording is as follows:

Common enemy Units that begin a turn adjacent to this Deceiver cannot move or attack during that turn.

The key words are bolded. This means that the Deceivers' ability kicks in at the start of the turn.

Chant of Negation is played during the Event Phase. When it is activated, it negates the abilities of all enemy Units until the beginning of that player's next turn.

Now, for the semantics. The Deceivers have what I like to call a triggered ability and a lasting effect, similar to Event Cards.

1) At the beginning of the JE turn, STUN triggers. The affected Units are now stunned, and they cannot move or attack.

2) During the Event Phase, Chant of Negation is played. This gets rid of Stun, or more specifically, STUN. The effects of STUN are lasting, however, and so for the rest of this turn, the stunned Units can't move or attack.

3) At the beginning of the Benders turn, STUN would normally trigger, but the Deceiver has no ability.

4) This is key. When the Jungle Elf turn starts, Chant of Negation's effect will now wear off. But STUN requires the beginning of the turn as well, so when Chant of Negation wears off, STUN can't trigger until the Benders' next turn!

This is what Phoenixio means by that ruling; it's just a step-by-step process into the workings.

[joepinion]

Sure. Deceivers' wording is as follows:

[b]4) This is key. When the Jungle Elf turn starts, Chant of Negation's effect will now wear off. But STUN requires the beginning of the turn as well, so when Chant of Negation wears off, STUN can't trigger until the Benders' next turn!

This is what Phoenixio means by that ruling; it's just a step-by-step process into the workings.

Woah! I've never noticed this ruling before. This is messed up. How can that be right? Chant of Negation reads "UNTIL the beginning of your next turn"... To me something that reads "until" is exclusive. In other words, it does not include what comes after it. As in, "It will rain every day until Monday." That means it's not raining on Monday. Anything you do on Monday has 0% chance of being in the rain. So to me Stun and the end of Chant of Negation are not simultaneous. Chant of Negation seems to end BEFORE the beginning of the Jungle Elves player's turn, because of the word until. If they were simultaneous I would've expected it to read something like "at the beginning of your next turn, the opponent gains back abilities" or whatever.

On the other hand, I'm all for giving Deceivers extra weaknesses.

[prometheuslkr]

Sure. Deceivers' wording is as follows:

Common enemy Units that begin a turn adjacent to this Deceiver cannot move or attack during that turn.

The key words are bolded. This means that the Deceivers' ability kicks in at the start of the turn.

Chant of Negation is played during the Event Phase. When it is activated, it negates the abilities of all enemy Units until the beginning of that player's next turn.

Now, for the semantics. The Deceivers have what I like to call a triggered ability and a lasting effect, similar to Event Cards.

1) At the beginning of the JE turn, STUN triggers. The affected Units are now stunned, and they cannot move or attack.

2) During the Event Phase, Chant of Negation is played. This gets rid of Stun, or more specifically, STUN. The effects of STUN are lasting, however, and so for the rest of this turn, the stunned Units can't move or attack.

3) At the beginning of the Benders turn, STUN would normally trigger, but the Deceiver has no ability.

4) This is key. When the Jungle Elf turn starts, Chant of Negation's effect will now wear off. But STUN requires the beginning of the turn as well, so when Chant of Negation wears off, STUN can't trigger until the Benders' next turn!

This is what Phoenixio means by that ruling; it's just a step-by-step process into the workings.

Stun doesn't trigger at the beginning of the Benders turn, though. It triggers at the beginning of the Jungle Elves turn.