Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: What do you mean by "Assassination" in SW?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur
    Posts
    282

    Default What do you mean by "Assassination" in SW?

    (1) This may be a matter of semantic but I like to know what do you mean by an assassination deck or assassination tactic. I often read that Vlox, Selundar, and perhaps to some extent Melundak are considered to be assassination decks or often work towards assassination attempt to win the game. How are these Summoners and their respective can be considered to be assassination decks or have assassination potential?

    (2) If I play Abua Shi and summon 2 Gorillas, then play Chant of Haste to move my Gorillas a total of up to 4 spaces to the adjacent side of a Summoner and manage to throw a total of 8 dice due to successful trigger of Pummel on both Gorillas. This results in me killing the opposing Summoner in one turn. Is this consider an assassination tactic?

    (3) I play Marek and put down Dinky. Place a Greater Sneak Event card on Dinky and have him move up to 5 spaces and be at the adjacent space of the Summoner. In addition, during the movement phase, Marek teaches Dinky Marked Target. Dinky potentially throw "God who knows how many dice" and kill the opposing Summoner. Is this also an assassination tactic?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    977

    Default

    Yeah I would call 2) and 3) assassination moves.

    To me an assassination tactic is to win the game prematurely using methodes to throw enough dice on the summoner to win the game. This often means you are taking a risk (both Gorillas do not pummel and it's a huge investment of 7 cards) and often fall back in economy if it fails.

    Assassination should never be played exclusively but is a great secondary strategy. For example original Sunderved could pressure your walls to force a mid game trading of units, but was also great at leaching the opponent summoner with Rusher + greater command, brute-push stormmage/Sundeved+Fall back/Quen or just Torodin+advance.

    Assassination play can also be used to throw some early (not terrible expensive) dice on the opponent summoner. Then your opponent needs to play differently and you can capitalize on it (early displacement to get the starting lioneer + chant of growth on the opponent summoner, then proceed to play economic style while allways have the option to prepare a finishing turn).

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Gwangju, South Korea
    Posts
    516

    Default

    I normally think of "assassination" as a turn or series of turns that, if they fail to kill the enemy summoner, will put you substantially behind in the long game. That's what differentiates assassin decks or summoners from powerful decks that just have free shots on summoners a lot.

    I guess I slightly disagree with jwalker that it should "never be played exclusively"; sometimes you know from the beginning of the matchup that you'd better just charge in and hope you get some rolls your way, before the opponent draws most of their many cards that are much stronger than your cards. Abua going up against DinkyKrusk or JujuNiku, for example. Giving those broken decks time is just a slower but more sure suicide, so you go assassin because variance is the friend of the huge underdog.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    977

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gojaejin View Post
    I normally think of "assassination" as a turn or series of turns that, if they fail to kill the enemy summoner, will put you substantially behind in the long game. That's what differentiates assassin decks or summoners from powerful decks that just have free shots on summoners a lot.

    I guess I slightly disagree with jwalker that it should "never be played exclusively"; sometimes you know from the beginning of the matchup that you'd better just charge in and hope you get some rolls your way, before the opponent draws most of their many cards that are much stronger than your cards. Abua going up against DinkyKrusk or JujuNiku, for example. Giving those broken decks time is just a slower but more sure suicide, so you go assassin because variance is the friend of the huge underdog.
    I personally do not have good experience in playing assassination only - it's often that in the end you get your 50-60% to win roll but if it fails there is no fallback plan. I tend to use very cheep assassination moves (maximum a 3 card investment) and see how the outcome is. If the opponent is in the death zone (2-3 life left) you can easily switch over to finish him off, but you need the tools for that (=assassination deck option). However, I agree there are certain match-ups were you cannot rely on the long game, but then I combine my assassination with a general push, meaning I bring my summoner or heavy champs to the front as well.

    To your example: funny cause I think Abua can actually deal with Juju and Dinky just fine (juju via chant of negation, Dinky via massive damage output (Lioneers, Makeida, Lioneers, Hyenas or just chant of growth on a hunter). I see more like the defensive summoner force you to avoid the long game (Dema, Tundle, Etch-decks).

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,471

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jwalker View Post
    To me an assassination tactic is to win the game prematurely using methodes to throw enough dice on the summoner to win the game. This often means you are taking a risk (both Gorillas do not pummel and it's a huge investment of 7 cards) and often fall back in economy if it fails.
    More or less this is how I look at it. I think I might have been the first one to formally offer some kind of definition.

    Abua Shi and Vlox were the first summoners to have somewhat viable Assassination options, but at the time I was really worried about it in testing. That's why Lioneers couldn't be affected by Chant of Haste. Previous iterations of Cloak of Shadows were also much more powerful. There was this unspoken assumption that Summoner Wars games would often go until both draw piles were depleted, and the person who managed their economy better would win.

    One of the pitfalls of most Assassination strategies is that once a player has enough games under their belt to understand what all of the events and units can accomplish, they know how to stop it dead in its tracks. It also encourages even more turtle-y style play, just to prevent it from happening.

    Assassination is different from the offensive strategy or tactic that I called crowding, which was about choking walls and impinging movement. Rather than taking potshots at the summoner, you would force them into a corner and ultimately overwhelm them. Wall destruction might happen as an afterthought, but the main goal was just to occupy all of the summoning spots. An assassination tactic is to use Goblin Rush to send guys straight at your opponent's summoner, often leaving their walls wide open. A crowding tactic would be to use Goblin Rush or Invincibility to move your back line up so you can have a revolving door of guys applying constant pressure.
    Last edited by Jexik; 01-11-2017 at 10:49 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    Posts
    2,224

    Default

    I consider assassination any tactic which extends your reach with the specific objective of killing the enemy summoner in their own territory, rather than say clogging/destroying walls. Both of your examples are Assassin tactics.

    Not assassination:

    1) You're playing as Natazga. You move your big units forward into the midfield, destroy enemy walls, and then proceed to kill their summoner. This is different because your primary objective was the walls, not the Summoner. This tactic is characterized as "Aggro" rather than "Assassin."

    2) Saturos is marched up to the midline. You drop a big champ, move it 2 spaces, and kill him. This is not assassination because you didn't have to go into his territory to kill him. This tactic falls under "Defensive" rather than "Assassin."
    Ask me about the Summoner Wars VASSAL group chat!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur
    Posts
    282

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by prometheuslkr View Post
    I consider assassination any tactic which extends your reach with the specific objective of killing the enemy summoner in their own territory, rather than say clogging/destroying walls. Both of your examples are Assassin tactics.

    If that is the case, would it be safe for me to say that all Summoners have the potential to Assassinate. For example:
    (1) Oldin summon Gror into play. Play 2 Heroic Feats. Attack the opponent Wall. In the process, also kill the Summoner with Gror's Zone of Effect.
    (2) In Tacullu, Shiva, and Endrich deck. Have a Controller on the board within range to attack the Summoner. Attack and move the Summoner, putting it in range of another Controller. Attack with second Controller. Move it to a space to be attacked by another Common Unit with 2 or more AV. Trigger Sorgwen ability to get a Common Unit to attack the Summoner again.
    (3) Glublurb play Vine Bind. Summoner cannot move out of the adjacent space of a Vine Wall. Summon 2 Boarboons. Have these two Units attack the Summoner and win the game.

  8. #8
    killercactus is offline SW App Champion Summer 2015, but still do what he says.
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    6,234

    Default

    It depends.

    If the opponent put their Summoner in harms way of one of those plays, then it's not really "Assassination". It's more like "defensive" play (like in Prome's example when Saturos is mid-field).

    However, sometimes I'd consider those an assassination tactic. Like, say the opposing Summoner has 6 Life left, and you drop Gror + 2x HF just to go after the Summoner. If you roll a 5/7 (since its not very likely to hit 6/7), that's more an Assassination ploy since you were gambling on killing them right there. Odds are now that Summoner that survived is going to go and cower in a corner while the other Units bash on Gror, and all of the sudden Oldin is behind in magic because he just spent 10 cards to put 5 wounds on the Summoner, which does absolutely nothing if that Summoner survives the rest of the game.

    That was always the issue with Assassination plays - you get absolutely no benefit out of attacking the opposing Summoner UNLESS you kill it. Anything you spend on attacking a Summoner that successfully gets away is completely wasted. That's why I liked designing Uriel so much - it makes those plays count for something. A Shadow Elf player can spend that magic and afford to fall behind, knowing that he has a chance later in the game to drop Uriel and get the final wound or two.
    Latest Customs - KC's Customs

    I need to update this signature. While I do that, go listen to A Doug's Guide to Summoner Wars - the podcast!

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brightknight_216 View Post
    If that is the case, would it be safe for me to say that all Summoners have the potential to Assassinate. For example:
    (1) Oldin summon Gror into play. Play 2 Heroic Feats. Attack the opponent Wall. In the process, also kill the Summoner with Gror's Zone of Effect.
    (2) In Tacullu, Shiva, and Endrich deck. Have a Controller on the board within range to attack the Summoner. Attack and move the Summoner, putting it in range of another Controller. Attack with second Controller. Move it to a space to be attacked by another Common Unit with 2 or more AV. Trigger Sorgwen ability to get a Common Unit to attack the Summoner again.
    (3) Glublurb play Vine Bind. Summoner cannot move out of the adjacent space of a Vine Wall. Summon 2 Boarboons. Have these two Units attack the Summoner and win the game.
    In the app, one trick I like to use in the rare instances I am Tacullu against Elien is when Elien is sitting behind his wall, you summon a mind witch, sorgwen and gwalark at the same time. The mind witch needs to be summoned within 3 spaces of Elien. You absorb Elien's magic blast ability, send the mindwitch over the wall, move sorgwen in her place, and double hit Elien for the win.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
    That was always the issue with Assassination plays - you get absolutely no benefit out of attacking the opposing Summoner UNLESS you kill it. Anything you spend on attacking a Summoner that successfully gets away is completely wasted.
    This is the best short hand description I've seen describing why assassination is inefficient.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •