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Thread: Staunch: A Suggestion in Changing Stalwart Archer Ability

  1. #1
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    Default Staunch: A Suggestion in Changing Stalwart Archer Ability

    I wonder whether anyone has used Stalwart Archers recently in their Vanguard deck. I think one significant weakness to using this Unit is that the formation can be easily broken due to Event cards such as Taunt, Ensnare, and Shiva's Influence. Currently, this Unit is sitting in my card box and not seeing any daylight.

    So I thought of replacing Stalwart Archer's "Hail of Arrow" ability to the following.

    STAUNCH:
    Whenever this Unit is adjacent to a Stalwart Archer, it cannot be moved from its position or be placed onto another space on the board by any opponent's Unit abilities or card effects.

    And whenever this Unit is adjacent to a Priest, opponents require to roll a 4 and above to hit Stalwart Archer unless the opponent pay 1 Magic to cancel this effect after rolling the dice.


    The idea behind this ability is I want to leverage on the formation centric nature of the Vanguard action but it must have an answer to address Event card effects and abilities that will move the unit or teleport it elsewhere.

    Then they would be 2 Event card scalled "Hail of Arrow" to support Stalwart Archers. Each Stalwart Archer with at least 1 other Stalwart Archer adjacent to it gain +2 Attack Value until the end of this turn.

    I haven't consider which Event card in Sera I would like to replace.

    What do you think? Will this make Stalwart Archer more playable?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by brightknight_216 View Post
    I wonder whether anyone has used Stalwart Archers recently in their Vanguard deck. I think one significant weakness to using this Unit is that the formation can be easily broken due to Event cards such as Taunt, Ensnare, and Shiva's Influence. Currently, this Unit is sitting in my card box and not seeing any daylight.

    So I thought of replacing Stalwart Archer's "Hail of Arrow" ability to the following.

    STAUNCH:
    Whenever this Unit is adjacent to a Stalwart Archer, it cannot be moved from its position or be placed onto another space on the board by any opponent's Unit abilities or card effects.

    And whenever this Unit is adjacent to a Priest, opponents require to roll a 4 and above to hit Stalwart Archer unless the opponent pay 1 Magic to cancel this effect after rolling the dice.


    The idea behind this ability is I want to leverage on the formation centric nature of the Vanguard action but it must have an answer to address Event card effects and abilities that will move the unit or teleport it elsewhere.

    Then they would be 2 Event card scalled "Hail of Arrow" to support Stalwart Archers. Each Stalwart Archer with at least 1 other Stalwart Archer adjacent to it gain +2 Attack Value until the end of this turn.

    I haven't consider which Event card in Sera I would like to replace.

    What do you think? Will this make Stalwart Archer more playable?
    Dont like it

    I like better, +1 for each friendly unit. I think is ok that they are not useful in some MU, I .ike that about SW some units should be good vs some and not so good vs others, instead of always good and always bad (this is wrong).

  3. #3
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    I also don't mind the idea that they're bad in MUs with strong movement control; that just comes with the game.

    My main thought has been to make them more economical, something along the lines of, "If you control two or more adjacent SAs, reduce this SA's summoning cost by 1 and it may be summoned adjacent to those SAs." Really puts pressure on the opponent to take them out, but a heavily Archer-based deck would still be a large opportunity cost versus the units available these days.

  4. #4
    killercactus is offline SW App Champion Summer 2015, but still do what he says.
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    Quite honestly, I don't think its the "formation breaking" cards that make Stalwart Archers "bad" (I use quotes because I actually think they're decent and typically play some in Sera). What hurts them is their reliance on having other Archers out to make them worth it, and also having a limited scope of targets to choose because of the formation requirement.

    Typically, I'm not summoning a Stalwart Archer unless I'm going to attack with a Hail of Arrows boost that turn, so I'm not really worried about stuff like Taunt, etc. I think the best way to use Archers currently is in Sera Eldwyn where there's already one starting on the battlefield. I like the first common I summon in Sera to be a Stalwart Archer, and I like to do it fast. It's the only time in all of Summoner Wars that you can summon just 1 Stalwart Archer and still get his bonus on both units (Moyra can summon just 1 and then Change Form, but she isn't ranged so its not quite as good. To this day I still wish I allowed Change Form to give Moyra a Bow Symbol when she copied a ranged unit. Too many stinking words....). I team those 2 guys up in the early game to provide some ranged firepower to that dismal starting setup. Plus it gets some magic into the discard pile in case Summoning Surge is needed.
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  5. #5
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    best fix for them is to modify the starting setup to have 2 on the field. summon an early 3rd one and you have a great great early game common setup. Then in mid and lategame you can switch to other commons (heavy knights, Cavelery, Priest) and your champs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwalker View Post
    best fix for them is to modify the starting setup to have 2 on the field. summon an early 3rd one and you have a great great early game common setup. Then in mid and lategame you can switch to other commons (heavy knights, Cavelery, Priest) and your champs.
    like it .....

  7. #7
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    Here' my analysis on the Stalwart Archer.

    I think jwalker has the "narrowest" solution for the Stalwart Archer. By this I mean that his solution would make the smallest change possible--it doesn't change the Stalwart Archer's stats, ability, etc. Theoretically, all you'd have to do is swap out a unit or two from the starting set up and place in the Stalwart: I'd suggest swapping out two of the Guardian Knights. This has the effect, as people point out above of making the Stalwart a good early game common.

    Another narrow solution I think would be to simply rename the Stalwart Archer ability, HAIL OF LIGHT. That might be balanced.

    That said, some of you might prefer a "broader" solution, one where the Stalwart is not just a good early game common but viable at any point in the game. One challenge I see is that the Stalwart's ability currently is uncapped and to make its ability less restrictive (i.e. adjacent to another Stalwart): making its ability less restrictive in conjunction with that uncapped ability feels problematic bc it feels too strong. From there, I'd cap the ability at +1 AV. As for the restriction, I can see a couple viable ones: (1) when you're attacking a unit that has unit you control adjacent to it; (2) when this Stalwart Archer has a unit you control adjacent to it with the Bow Symbol (could therefore get the boost early from Sera, even if you only have 1 Stalwart to start the game with). As for which is better, it depends. The first restriction that when you're attacking a unit that has a unit you control adjacent to it is intuitive: it's a hail or arrows in the way we see archers used on TV shows and movies in that a melee unit engages another unit, and the archers sit back and rain down arrows. As for its thematicness, it feels a lot like the Guardian Knight's ability. Also, the restriction is not very strong, likely often allowing you to make use of the +AV boost. As for the second restriction, this feels thematic in relation to the current Stalwart Archer ability: it just relaxes the current restriction. It is also intuitive in a way: in TV shows and movies, with a "hail or arrows," it doesn't matter what types of archers (horseback, foot, longbowmen, crossbowman, etc.) are shooting the bolts or arrows together, the only thing that matters it that there are several bowman/crossbowman shooting together. The ability under this variation would be the same: The Stalwart would get the boost if adjacent to any other type of archer, even if it's not a Stalwart. As for whether this second suggestion is more fun, I'm not sure. It might be, encouraging the use of more archers in the Vanguard, or allowing, quite possibly, for a strong archer deck to be a more viable build. That might have greater utility.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by commandercool View Post
    Another narrow solution I think would be to simply rename the Stalwart Archer ability, HAIL OF LIGHT. That might be balanced.
    This suggestion will be great to create synergy with Crusader Knight from Moyra's deck.


    Quote Originally Posted by commandercool View Post
    That said, some of you might prefer a "broader" solution, one where the Stalwart is not just a good early game common but viable at any point in the game. One challenge I see is that the Stalwart's ability currently is uncapped and to make its ability less restrictive (i.e. adjacent to another Stalwart): making its ability less restrictive in conjunction with that uncapped ability feels problematic bc it feels too strong. From there, I'd cap the ability at +1 AV. As for the restriction, I can see a couple viable ones: (1) when you're attacking a unit that has unit you control adjacent to it; (2) when this Stalwart Archer has a unit you control adjacent to it with the Bow Symbol (could therefore get the boost early from Sera, even if you only have 1 Stalwart to start the game with). As for which is better, it depends. The first restriction that when you're attacking a unit that has a unit you control adjacent to it is intuitive: it's a hail or arrows in the way we see archers used on TV shows and movies in that a melee unit engages another unit, and the archers sit back and rain down arrows. As for its thematicness, it feels a lot like the Guardian Knight's ability. Also, the restriction is not very strong, likely often allowing you to make use of the +AV boost. As for the second restriction, this feels thematic in relation to the current Stalwart Archer ability: it just relaxes the current restriction. It is also intuitive in a way: in TV shows and movies, with a "hail or arrows," it doesn't matter what types of archers (horseback, foot, longbowmen, crossbowman, etc.) are shooting the bolts or arrows together, the only thing that matters it that there are several bowman/crossbowman shooting together. The ability under this variation would be the same: The Stalwart would get the boost if adjacent to any other type of archer, even if it's not a Stalwart. As for whether this second suggestion is more fun, I'm not sure. It might be, encouraging the use of more archers in the Vanguard, or allowing, quite possibly, for a strong archer deck to be a more viable build. That might have greater utility.
    I like this suggestion of increase cap of +1AV whenever one or more ranged Vanguard Units is adjacent to the Stalwart Archer. This offers very creative solution and opportunity of various deckbuilding and also wide consideration of positioning of Varguard ranged attackers which are not limited only to Stalwart Archers. We can therefore make good use of Cherubim in Sera Decks for the purpose of having this flying unit, due to its movement of 1 space, to quickly move to where the Stalwart Archer is and boost the latter attack.

    Furthermore, Stalwart Archers can be supported more with the ranged Champions that Vanguard has particular Jacob Eldwyn, Father Benjamin, Master Bullock (but he seems odd in Sera deck unless he is followed by a number of Woeful Brothers), Rachel Loveguard and Sybil Swancott.

    It'll be interesting to see how the opponent will address the situation where a Stalwart Archer is in the front adjacent space of a Champion as any attack that despatch the Stalwart Archer will have that Unit meet the retaliation the wrath of the ranged Champion to avenge the death of the Vanguard commons.

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