The New Vanguards

[thenightsshadow]

On VASSAL recently, I've started to use a different style of Vanguard deck, and so far, it seems to be doing very well. The losses I incur are mostly operator error and/or very close games that could have gone the other way, while most of the wins are outright blow-outs and just a massive heal-fest. I'll discuss it more once we get some discussion, but here's the deck list:

Sera Eldwyn + Events

Grubs
Jacob Eldwyn
Malevolence

8x Guardian Knight
2x Priest
1x Spear Grounder
7x Stalwart Archer

[esper88]

Grubs
Jacob Eldwyn
Malevolence

No Kalon? You've got some splainin' to do.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

not sure why the New, but as I said, I liked the mass champ damage deck. Might have trouble with heavy magic denial factions though.

[chardris77]

On VASSAL recently, I've started to use a different style of Vanguard deck, and so far, it seems to be doing very well. The losses I incur are mostly operator error and/or very close games that could have gone the other way, while most of the wins are outright blow-outs and just a massive heal-fest. I'll discuss it more once we get some discussion, but here's the deck list:

As impressive as this is, what is your win/loss%? That makes it more impressive.

Grubs
Jacob Eldwyn
Malevolence

A Grubs + Mal/Jac combo would be sweet, but how often can you get that out? Do you ever get all 3 champs out?

8x Guardian Knight
2x Priest
1x Spear Grounder
7x Stalwart Archer

GK. A bit much, but ok.
Priest. Wait a sec, then what is this heal fest you speak of earlier?
SG. Why one?
SA. Again, a bit much, but ok.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

the SA I guess are for those ass match ups where you need range, like the BD or PE. About Magic, if you build every common (including your starting ones) and build Divine Strength, Holy Judgment, you have enough magic for all the champs. So that's before considering triggering Summoning Surge, with a dedicated build rate should be doable.

[Ranior]

I saw tns running this against my TO the other day....and it was close. (Although I'd mention at the same time both Reinforces were in the bottom 6 cards and with what I was drawing I literally could not use both cause there weren't enough commons.)

With that though...it was a close round. There is a high damage output with say 3 SA's on the map, and tns was having a good heavy build rate, as he only held onto Champs and SS I'm guessing. Holy Judgements were thrown aside, very reasonable for this deck, and he brought out a champ when needed. If you have the wall set up right, and are pushing with your guys, a GK will almost always make sure that your champ will not get flanked and can only be attacked by one unit.

This is what tns did with Jacob to me....it was nuts. Jacob probably healed 6 times that game, sometimes from 4 wounds. I am guessing this deck is intnded to be run like that. I can see how it would work against a great many factions at times, but I also think that it could just be something people need to learn to adapt to, as when you play VG you are not expecting a heavy build rate with heavy damage output.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

and you were not running Bragg.

[killercactus]

I used to run a VG deck very similar to this.... I think I used Kalon / Leah instead of Mal / Grubs, but the common breakdown was very similar. I think I had another Priest instead of the SG.

I didn't see that game, but I can imagine what happened. I think ranged champs could be a big deal for the VG, as they allow Sera to heal them earlier in the game but stay away and protected, which is something that the melee ones (not named Grubs I guess, though it's still tough with him) can't do. That's one reason I've contemplated Mundol + Rune Mages with the VG. For instance, here's a build that I think is very feasible - maybe even moreso with Siphon helping you get magic:

Mundol
Jake
Kalon (gotta use him here instead of Mal / Grubs because of the Runies)

Guradian Knight x9
Rune Mage x5
Priest x1
Stalwart Archer x1
Cavalry Knight x2

So, you have Rune Mages in for range instead of Stalwarts, and they can still get 2 dice with Mundol. He and Jake can fire at stuff from a choke point with Sera healing and GK's protecting flanks. Endgame consists of Kalon / Sera beatdown. It's magic intensive, but Siphon helps ease that. Also, Wall + SS + Siphon is fun. I added Cav Knights just for surgical strikes if the opportunity arises, and also to not tempt myself to use Holy Judgment, allowing me to build it. I figure if you build Holy Judgment x3, Divine Strength x3 and Intercession, you just paid for a champ. Summoning Surge pays for half of another one.

[esper88]

Wait, what's new about TNS's deck? The fact that it's champ heavy? Weren't we all already playing Vanguards like this? If you're going to have a hefty magic pile anyway, why not use Leah?

I'm just a tad confused about what we're talking about here.

[thenightsshadow]

No Kalon? You've got some splainin' to do.

Sure. Kalon sucks because he's not 4 Attack all the time, and without the proper barricades, he can be killed quite easily, like any other champ. However, with the barricades, you're not doing a lot of damage yourself.

As impressive as this is, what is your win/loss%? That makes it more impressive.

9 wins, 5 losses. (2 losses to TO, 1 loss to SG, I forget what other two factions this deck lost to.)

A Grubs + Mal/Jac combo would be sweet, but how often can you get that out? Do you ever get all 3 champs out?

I've gotten all three out with Spear Grounder back up twice, and all three out with Priest and triple Holy Judgment back up once.

GK. A bit much, but ok.
Priest. Wait a sec, then what is this heal fest you speak of earlier?
SG. Why one?
SA. Again, a bit much, but ok.

The deck's not completely optimized yet. I'm trying to figure out the right numbers.
I'm thinking of moving it to 6 Guardian Knight, 6 Stalwart Archer, 3 Priest, and 3 Spear Grounder.

SAs are for taking down Walls, Priests are for when you need defense, GKs are for protecting champs and early game shenanigans, and Spear Grounders are end-game surprise shock troops.

With that though...it was a close round. There is a high damage output with say 3 SA's on the map, and tns was having a good heavy build rate, as he only held onto Champs and SS I'm guessing. Holy Judgements were thrown aside, very reasonable for this deck, and he brought out a champ when needed. If you have the wall set up right, and are pushing with your guys, a GK will almost always make sure that your champ will not get flanked and can only be attacked by one unit.

Part of the reason that I had to do something different than the deck was originally intended to do (mass champ spam, common back-up) was because it was Tundra Orcs, the deck with Freeze. It is by far this deck's worst matchup. Considering that minus the whole reinforcement trouble, neither of us really had bad dice, I would say that the worst matchup looks to be quite winnable if our game (and two others) is anything to go by. I still feel I lost that by operator error; Grubs should have been summoned, not Malevolence.

Wait, what's new about TNS's deck? The fact that it's champ heavy? Weren't we all already playing Vanguards like this? If you're going to have a hefty magic pile anyway, why not use Leah?

I'm just a tad confused about what we're talking about here.

The New Vanguards is just a title; the Vanguards are probably the most adaptive faction with deckbuilding. Stalwart Archers, however, are a card I consider a faction-definer, not Priests. I will not and cannot run this deck without at least 3 Stalwart Archers in the deck. Not if I'm running this in Five for Fighting, anyways.