Mercenary Strategies

[Phoenixio]

Well, it's more about if you know his deck, he knows yours too. So it's not about having THE surprise that your opponent had this whatever unit you weren't that much expecting.

To further illustrate the point, you must also admit that a faction doesn't have a single way to play. For example, the Guild Dwarves can go at Wall Destruction, at solo champions, at heavy lockdown, and so on. When playing against the Guild Dwarves in the "surprise mode", one must be wary of ALL those types of decks and prepare for all of them. Add in a couple (read ton) of potential mercenary units, and it's becoming quite impossible to plan for everything.

I don't have a good example at hand, because they are more situational, but it happens often that you plan according to a certain strategy (let's say you turtle) to avoid some trap your opponent might have if you're offensive. But it happens to be that your opponent also had this other tool to totally destroy turtles. So you're basically doomed and you have to take a chance in the strategy you adopt "in case" your opponent can't answer well. It's this luck factor I totally hate.

And if you try to play defensively (read react to your opponent), you might end up in a stalemate if your opponent tries to do the same, since both of you try not to let any opening, stick in your corner, and never summon anything to keep the surprise. And that's just boring.

What I totally enjoy from standard builds is that the decks are usually made with a couple of different tactics in mind. Taking the example of Guild Dwarves again, one might use all 3 strategies mentioned earlier and switch from one another during the game, and everybody can plan according to that because there are a finite amount of things to do.

With every faction having mercenaries (an a lot to come), their refinforcements and maybe more in the future, I'm pretty sure nobody here will ever be able to anticipate everything. With revealed decklists, the tools are fixed, and it's up to you to manage your resources correctly to deal with them all.

[Phoenixio]

I have nothing against showing your decks but I don't paticulary care for it in my games

You should try to care. I think it's an upper level of talent to be able to check the cards, calculate some average probabilities that your opponent has a specific card, and adapt to those. Counting cards is also important, especially for some events like Burn, Spirit of the Phoenix, Magic Drain and the such.

I've had some truly epic games with Colby and James when the both of us just stopped and crunched numbers. Each turn was much longer, but each movement, attack, card built had a HUGE influence on the game, because we were trying to figure out what the other was about to do and what he could draw. Those were INCREDIBLY satisfying games, even for the ones that lost.

[killercactus]

Well, it's more about if you know his deck, he knows yours too. So it's not about having THE surprise that your opponent had this whatever unit you weren't that much expecting.

To further illustrate the point, you must also admit that a faction doesn't have a single way to play. For example, the Guild Dwarves can go at Wall Destruction, at solo champions, at heavy lockdown, and so on. When playing against the Guild Dwarves in the "surprise mode", one must be wary of ALL those types of decks and prepare for all of them. Add in a couple (read ton) of potential mercenary units, and it's becoming quite impossible to plan for everything.

I don't have a good example at hand, because they are more situational, but it happens often that you plan according to a certain strategy (let's say you turtle) to avoid some trap your opponent might have if you're offensive. But it happens to be that your opponent also had this other tool to totally destroy turtles. So you're basically doomed and you have to take a chance in the strategy you adopt "in case" your opponent can't answer well. It's this luck factor I totally hate.

And if you try to play defensively (read react to your opponent), you might end up in a stalemate if your opponent tries to do the same, since both of you try not to let any opening, stick in your corner, and never summon anything to keep the surprise. And that's just boring.

What I totally enjoy from standard builds is that the decks are usually made with a couple of different tactics in mind. Taking the example of Guild Dwarves again, one might use all 3 strategies mentioned earlier and switch from one another during the game, and everybody can plan according to that because there are a finite amount of things to do.

With every faction having mercenaries (an a lot to come), their refinforcements and maybe more in the future, I'm pretty sure nobody here will ever be able to anticipate everything. With revealed decklists, the tools are fixed, and it's up to you to manage your resources correctly to deal with them all.

I hardly ever share my deck with my opponent, and I've had lots of those types of games. I still count cards - I just count total commons, events and champions. I think it's more fun to say "well, you have a common left in your hand, and I think it's a Scrapper based on what I've seen from your deck so far, but I'm gonna be careful in case it's a Gunner."

I still don't like the theme behind knowing. I get this picture in my head of Elien and Grognack having a parley before the battle, and Elien saying "Well, I only have 5 Warriors, 5 Guardians, and 4 Archers available to summon this battle, and the Fire Drake, Maelena and Kaeseeall. What do you have? Really? Wow, I'm glad you aren't gonna summon any Chargers or Bragg, that would've sucked."

[Ranior]

I also think the fact that there are only 6 mercs per deck, AND that you know when your opponent has a mercenary is plenty of help to planning. It's not like decks can do anything all that massively different or shocking anyhow.


Personally I prefer to keep the builds secret and work from there. Next I don't know but currently the mercenaries out there aren't all that game changing either. They have their uses, but almost always each faction can pull more tricky stuff with their base units.

Overall my games have been extremely satisfying, and thats been by keeping decks secret. I think its a different, and in my opinion, not better game when you know exactly what someone else is/can do. Not to mention certain champs I think lose any use if you know they are there. I mean what the heck is Rahlee or Raechel really useful for if your opponent plans for them and never lets your really utilize their ability?

[Phoenixio]

I mean what the heck is Rahlee or Raechel really useful for if your opponent plans for them and never lets your really utilize their ability?

I think that those units are good in a known decklist, since it's part of their effect: people are wary of greater flight and the such more when they know there is some.

In a surprise environment, they are already wary of everything. So those "lesser" champions lose even more since their effects are already used by the format. So it's clearly better, from a playtesting point of view, to test units in their full potential, just like their standard counterparts.

I guess you guys don't play the same way we do. Much more chickening out in our games, and in my opinion that ain't good at all for a fast paced game like SW. Maybe it's because of the latest reinforcements and mercs you'll end up seeing soon enough: they might change your vision of blind deckbuilding a lot.

[iglew]

I'll never understand how it takes more skill to beat an opponent when you know what's coming than to beat one when you don't.

What I said was that it is a more strategic game that way, not that it takes "more skill" per se. If you had to play Summoner Wars while balancing a book on your head, that would take more skill, but it wouldn't make it a better game.

As for "more strategic", you can see how chess is a more strategic game than rock-paper-scissors, right? It's a similar concept.

[sitnam90]

As for "more strategic", you can see how chess is a more strategic game than rock-paper-scissors, right? It's a similar concept.

A good part of military strategy revolves around keeping the size, strength, and make-up a secret from the opposing army. War is far more strategic then chess I believe

[iglew]

Not to mention certain champs I think lose any use if you know they are there. I mean what the heck is Rahlee or Raechel really useful for if your opponent plans for them and never lets your really utilize their ability?

Raechel's usefulness lies in making your opponent wary of leaving one-life commons forward on the battlefield and forcing him to be more careful of his hand management when he does have commons out.

Honestly, I think you have it exactly backward. Raechel is far more useful in a public-deck format. If your opponent knows you've committed a champion slot to her, he has to take the threat seriously, and once you've got sufficient magic in your pile (or SS ability) it will cramp his play. But in a blind format he's going to think it unlikely you've played Raechel and it won't be cost-effective for him to protect against the small risk.

The result is that playing Raechel in a blind-deck format means 19 times out of 20 she does nothing at all for you but then then 20th time you catch your opponent by surprise and force him to discard a crucial card. In other words, it's sort of like winning because Ragnor got a string of successful Fury rolls.

I suppose it's a question of what you like. Which do you think makes a SW game more fun: the spectacular surprise move that your opponent didn't think to defend against (and arguably shouldn't have), or the cautious dance of responding to threats and counter-threats. I prefer the latter, but I can see how a different sort of player might prefer the former.

[iglew]

War is far more strategic then chess I believe

And considerably less fun to play....

[Clarissimus]

I get this picture in my head of Elien and Grognack having a parley before the battle, and Elien saying "Well, I only have 5 Warriors, 5 Guardians, and 4 Archers available to summon this battle, and the Fire Drake, Maelena and Kaeseeall. What do you have? Really? Wow, I'm glad you aren't gonna summon any Chargers or Bragg, that would've sucked."

I found this image particularly hilarious.