Any advice for running a SW tournament?

[Tadow2]

I just started playing SW with a bunch of friends and we wanted to start running tournaments at our local game store. My question is what is the best way to do this? Also, what do people do for prizes? We normally charge a small entry fee so that there can be a prize, but I don't have any clue what would be a suitable prize. Any help would be useful.

Thanks

[Phoenixio]

It could be a good idea to find a sponsor or two for your tournament. You can sometime find some boardgame retailers that will be willing to help you out in exchange for publicity. That'll give you some prizes and take out the entry fee, unless you want to give even more prizes.

As for the general tricks, I'd consider getting a couple of extra sets and play-boards. If you expect that people will have their own decks or something, you might end up short on player. I've given access to all my stuff during tournaments, and along with a friend or two, we can accommodate around 24 participants that way, even more when the Master Set will come out.

Ideally, you should make some demo nights too, for local players to find out about Summoner Wars. If only a handful of your close friends participate, it won't be much fun. After a couple of demos, and a couple of nights of practice, you'll be ready for a good tournament with a lot of players worthy of a champion title!

[darkbladecb]

Colby's official tournaments use chess clocks. That's the easiest way to settle tie breakers, kind of like with Magic: Online. If you take too long and you're the one that clocks out, you lose, because the big problem with Summoner Wars is what's the best way to handle tiebreakers. Chess clocks seem to be the consensus.

We ran two tournaments, but we had neither a fee nor a prize, just pride.

And Swiss format is, of course, the best format for these sorts of things.

[Tadow2]

When Plaid Hat runs a tournament at a big event do they hand out any prizes? I was thinking that getting some of the dice would be a cool prize, but I don't know the best way of doing that. I know that I wouldn't want dice that don't match my faction and I also don't want to order loads of dice and get stuck with them.
Also, how do I get more maps? I know I can ask everyone to bring one, but I also know that people tend to forget simple things like maps and dice. Any ideas on that?

[killercactus]

Colby's official tournaments use chess clocks.

And by the way - you don't actually need chess clocks. There's a free chess clock app out there for smart phones / iPad's, so you really only need a few smart phones. We used that with great success at our last tourney.

Personally, I also really like the "5 for Fighting" format, which is where you run a 5-round Swiss tournament and each player has to play a different faction in each round. This will be tough to do with new players though especially before the master set comes out, but once it's out I think it'll be a great way to run a tournament.

[ArcticSnake]

How bout... Using the chess clocks as the prizes!!!

No?

I'll return to lurking now...

[dyeyk2000]

And by the way - you don't actually need chess clocks. There's a free chess clock app out there for smart phones / iPad's, so you really only need a few smart phones. We used that with great success at our last tourney.

Personally, I also really like the "5 for Fighting" format, which is where you run a 5-round Swiss tournament and each player has to play a different faction in each round. This will be tough to do with new players though especially before the master set comes out, but once it's out I think it'll be a great way to run a tournament.

1. If you use chess clocks, how much time is allotted per player?
2. Really? Changing decks? I would have thought that players would prefer to stick with one deck all through out. I think for the sake of "fairness" and the integrity of the metagame as well since you don't want players switching decks in order to take advantage of a matchup (ex. switching to PE if you know you are facing CG). Thoughts? Which format does PHG use?

[Jexik]

1. If you use chess clocks, how much time is allotted per player?
2. Really? Changing decks? I would have thought that players would prefer to stick with one deck all through out. I think for the sake of "fairness" and the integrity of the metagame as well since you don't want players switching decks in order to take advantage of a matchup (ex. switching to PE if you know you are facing CG). Thoughts? Which format does PHG use?


1. Anywhere between 20-30 minutes usually, depending on how long you want the maximum to be.

2. How Five For Fighting will work won't allow for a counterdraft. At the start of the tournament, you'll pick which faction decks you'll use, and in what order. For example, if I were playing in a 5-round Swiss tournament, I might say:

Round 1: Cloaks - Malevolence, Scam, Violet, 8 Scrapper, 8 Thief, 2 Gunner
Round 2: Sand Goblins - (stock)
Round 3: Tundra Orcs - Rukar, Krung, Ragnor, 5x Thwarter, 6x Shaman, 5x Smasher
Round 4: Guild Dwarves - Baldar, Gror, Thorkur, 10x Defender, 1x Engineer, 7x Spearman
Round 5: Cave Goblins - Mook, Krag, Reeker, 9x Slinger, 8x Fighter, 1x Berserker

I think this kind of tournament is more likely to preserve a diverse metagame because you probably can't play the same match-up twice in a day.

[killercactus]

1. If you use chess clocks, how much time is allotted per player?
2. Really? Changing decks? I would have thought that players would prefer to stick with one deck all through out. I think for the sake of "fairness" and the integrity of the metagame as well since you don't want players switching decks in order to take advantage of a matchup (ex. switching to PE if you know you are facing CG). Thoughts? Which format does PHG use?

The tourney I ran used 25 minutes per player. It seemed to work out well - we didn't have any games go to time but one was very close, and the clock made for an exciting end-game sequence.

I really like 5 for Fighting as well - it forces players out of their comfort zones if they like to "main" one faction, and really promotes some diversity. Plus, I really like knowing that people can only play GD once during the day - I hate playing them.

[dyeyk2000]

Interesting. I suppose the reason I'd want to run a single deck tournament is to detect any glaring imbalances in the game if any (ex. several tournaments being won by the GD would be a red flag). Although the consolidated win-loss sheet already confirms these disparities a bit. Also, wouldn't you want to go against a player when he is at his best (aka the faction he is most comfortable with) in order to truly determine who is the best of all?

[killercactus]

Interesting. I suppose the reason I'd want to run a single deck tournament is to detect any glaring imbalances in the game if any (ex. several tournaments being won by the GD would be a red flag). Although the consolidated win-loss sheet already confirms these disparities a bit. Also, wouldn't you want to go against a player when he is at his best (aka the faction he is most comfortable with) in order to truly determine who is the best of all?

See, my definition of "the best of all" would be the player that had the skill to win with multiple factions, not just master one of them.

Besides, the point of tournaments for me is to have fun, and I personally think variety makes it a lot more fun.

[darkbladecb]

Interesting. I suppose the reason I'd want to run a single deck tournament is to detect any glaring imbalances in the game if any (ex. several tournaments being won by the GD would be a red flag). Although the consolidated win-loss sheet already confirms these disparities a bit. Also, wouldn't you want to go against a player when he is at his best (aka the faction he is most comfortable with) in order to truly determine who is the best of all?

You have to remember, too, that the 5 for Fighting tournament at this GenCon (in addittion to the regular faction battle tournament with one deck for five rounds). The Master Set will be out by then, so everyone will have 14 decks to play instead of just 8. So now instead of just bringing the Deep Dwarves to GenCon, I will also have the opportunity to pick some of my other favorite decks, like the Vanguard, Guild Dwarves, Swamp Orcs, and the Cave Goblins.

Obviously neither format should replace the other, but there's definitely good fun in encouraging players to be the best general PLAYER, not just the player who is best with one deck.

As for imbalances? We're still talking a game where the worst decks win 9 out of 20 games and the best are winning 11 out of 20. I'll admit my strong bias on this subject, but I'm of the opinion that's a really balanced game, compared to the market. I think the tournament scene has born out this disparity so far, too.

[killercactus]

I agree with darkblade. We have a pretty small sample size of tournaments so far, but I don't think they really show any true overpowering of one faction. The PE, GD and TO have all performed well, which is expected as they have their reinforcements out already and the others don't (and the CG are normally thought of as the toughest faction to play of the original 4). I know that the following factions have won tournaments:

PE, TO, GD, VG, JE

I don't think the CG is very far from winning one at all. Had I played a bit better against darkblade and/or ditched my BR's for Slingers in the Vassal tourmanent, I'd feel pretty confident that they had a good shot to win that one. If I get to play a SW tournament at Origins this year, I might try running Fallen Kingdom just to try and put them on the map by winning a tourney (though it will tempting to play something more proven like PE as I really will want a second master set....).

[darkbladecb]

I don't think the CG is very far from winning one at all. Had I played a bit better against darkblade and/or ditched my BR's for Slingers in the Vassal tourmanent, I'd feel pretty confident that they had a good shot to win that one. If I get to play a SW tournament at Origins this year, I might try running Fallen Kingdom just to try and put them on the map by winning a tourney (though it will tempting to play something more proven like PE as I really will want a second master set....).

Jexik also made it to the final of last GenCon's Free Build tourney using Standard CG with EB for the Eater, I believe.

[dyeyk2000]

Ah. Let me clarify myself. I do agree that the game is pretty balanced as it is. Though the spreadsheet points to a disparity, I agree that this disparity is manageable.

And yes. The sample size of tournaments is still pretty small, as well as the population of players one would deem "experienced" SW players. Every time I read battle reports, I always come across the proverbial "this is just his second game of Summoner Wars.. " line pointing to a possible advantage in familiarity rather than outright skill for the eventual winners. Perhaps with a more skilled population, we'll get more robust trends that can lead to some real analysis.

Sometimes I feel that the game is eerily too well balanced though. The deck size, tempo and costings of the cards in the game seem to always lead to a 1-2 units showdown at the end if both players played well. It boggles my mind. I've heard opinions that either this game is just really well balanced, or simply too random that's why it always ends the same way and there's only a slight disparity among win-loss records. I believe the addition of the Master Set should settle this debate once and for all. The play styles available from each faction will balloon exponentially when it comes out and if win-loss records continue at it's eery 40-60% rate across all factions, then the "the game is too random" camp will have a less compelling argument.