Are The Benders Evil?

[spockthemanatee]

From the card art, special abilities and common cards, I have come across the assumption that the Benders are infact very much evil! What are your thoughts?

[PePe QuiCoSE]

which faction isn't evil? (besides Ret Talus, of course)

[spockthemanatee]

No man! You've got your morality messed up! It's the vanguards that are good!

[Truth]

A lot of it is about perspective. They have a way of doing things that isn't exactly conducive with free thought. But they still fight against the Fallen Kingdom. I leave a certain amount of the views on a factions moral standing up to the player/reader. But if I had to create a list going from the most evil to the most good (worst intentions to best intentions) as a whole faction it would go something like this:

Fallen Kingdom 10/0
Filth 10/0
Cave Goblins 10/0
Swamp Orcs 9/1
Phoenix Elves 7/3
Benders 5/5
Sand Goblins 5/5
Deep Dwarves 5/5
Shadow Elves 5/5
Guild Dwarves 5/5
Tundra Orcs 5/5
Cloaks 3/7
Jungle Elves 3/7
Mountain Vargath 2/8
Vanguards 0/10

[jsmkd]

who the filth? My guess is another human faction.

[Brelgar the Orc]

Hey everyone I'm baaaAAAaaack!

Who are the filth?

(ninja'd by jsmkd)

On another note, who would the last faction be if the filth are one of the two?

[Marroking1]

Filth Vs Clean. ; ). Featuring Mr.Clean as there Summoner. With Scrubing Bubble Commons.

[KCU Master 2007]

Filth 10/0

You're an evil, evil man, Truth. We don't even have the Master Set in our hands yet and you're name dropping on us. That's just not nice...now we need a rampant speculation thread.

[Killer Lawnmower]

Or it could mean filth in general.

[Infection Reflection]

I bet he's talking about the mercs. Malevolence doesn't look like a happy camper.;)

[Infection Reflection]

Filth Vs Clean. ; ). Featuring Mr.Clean as there Summoner. With Scrubing Bubble Commons.

One of their champs could be Brawny.:D Another one could be Scott, and the last would Lysol.:p

[Elcor13]

A lot of it is about perspective. They have a way of doing things that isn't exactly conducive with free thought. But they still fight against the Fallen Kingdom. I leave a certain amount of the views on a factions moral standing up to the player/reader. But if I had to create a list going from the most evil to the most good (worst intentions to best intentions) as a whole faction it would go something like this:

Fallen Kingdom 10/0
Filth 10/0
Cave Goblins 10/0
Swamp Orcs 9/1
Phoenix Elves 7/3
Benders 5/5
Sand Goblins 5/5
Deep Dwarves 5/5
Shadow Elves 5/5
Guild Dwarves 5/5
Tundra Orcs 5/5
Cloaks 3/7
Jungle Elves 3/7
Mountain Vargath 2/8
Vanguards 0/10

Huh, interesting. This is something I know that like Darkblade and I have talked about, and its interesting to see your thoughts on it Truth. Cave Goblins and Swamp Orcs are a little more evil than I expected, but I'm glad to see that the PE are bad, so it makes it ok that I don't like them. I had assumed that the Benders, Shadow Elves, Deep Dwarves and TO might be a little darker than say the TO and GD, but its interesting that they're in the middle. Thanks Truth!

[sitnam90]

A lot of it is about perspective. They have a way of doing things that isn't exactly conducive with free thought. But they still fight against the Fallen Kingdom. I leave a certain amount of the views on a factions moral standing up to the player/reader. But if I had to create a list going from the most evil to the most good (worst intentions to best intentions) as a whole faction it would go something like this:

Fallen Kingdom 10/0
Filth 10/0
Cave Goblins 10/0
Swamp Orcs 9/1
Phoenix Elves 7/3
Benders 5/5
Sand Goblins 5/5
Deep Dwarves 5/5
Shadow Elves 5/5
Guild Dwarves 5/5
Tundra Orcs 5/5
Cloaks 3/7
Jungle Elves 3/7
Mountain Vargath 2/8
Vanguards 0/10

Hey I don't see how the CG have bad intentions. Their only impoverished cave natives, defending themselves from evil Guild Dwarf encroachment! They were commiting Cave Goblin genocide! If anything the Cave Goblins are the most pure and primal race. They wish a return to the natural state of the world. It is these pesky civilized peoples who get in the way!:mad:

Lol yeah, I think besides FK you can justify the intentions of ANY side.

[Sera Eldwyn's boyfriend]

Well is you read the bio for Vlox it is mentioned that the Benders fight to flee from the forces of Ret-Talus. So going by that I would have to say that the Benders aren't evil per say. I do find it fascinating that the PE are a seven on the evil scale.

[sitnam90]

Well is you read the bio for Vlox it is mentioned that the Benders fight to flee from the forces of Ret-Talus. So going by that I would have to say that the Benders aren't evil per say. I do find it fascinating that the PE are a seven on the evil scale.

I do as well. I guess revenge marks pretty high up on the scale, but then wouldn't the Cloaks be fairly evil t0o?

[Thing 2]

Given the way the treat puppies, I think the PE deserve at least a 7. Seriously though, 10 for the CG? I figured you could at least kind of justify their actions. Then again, Sneeks did eat his mother if I remember correctly. Also, with the Cloaks, do you mean the Cloaks as a whole or just Vlox? Because I think that there's a big difference there. Just my one and a half cents (we really need that smiley over here by the way).

[sitnam90]

Seriously though, 10 for the CG. I figured you could at least kind of justify their actions. Then again, Sneeks did eat his mother if I remember correctly

Well eating his mother is a social norm for the Cave Goblins; they need the sustenance from cannibalism to survive their harsh home. Which furhter explains why the Guild Dwarves are more evil; sitting in their plush fortresses, encroaching on an impoverished race's territory, forcing them into extreme practices to survive.

[ultimobean]

I agree truths morality is completely messed up the scale should be reverse....Ret the ultimate good fighting for the people of the world while the bane of his plans the VG keep screwing it up...just like those scooby-doo kids

[sitnam90]

I agree truths morality is completely messed up the scale should be reverse....Ret the ultimate good fighting for the people of the world while the bane of his plans the VG keep screwing it up...just like those scooby-doo kids

Lol you sound like Rios on the podcast every time that has been discussed

[Phoenixio]

Lol you sound like Rios on the podcast every time that has been discussed

Hmm, maybe because he IS Rios? :rolleyes:

[Elcor13]

hmm, maybe because he is rios? :rolleyes:

bum bum bummmmmmm!!!!

[sitnam90]

Lol nice. I was thinking so, can never be sure. I wonder what the backstory for the MS factions will be. Especially the MV, because they seem 'lawful nuetral' to me

[Lord_AndraK]

Bah! Revenge is not a Evil motive... it is a way of ensuring peace.

E.g.

"Don't hit me or I'll break you legs".... see as long as the revenge factor is known peace reigns, and hey if you need to make some examples the first few times its just an educational lesson.

Cloaks get some +Evil due to their dirty tactics in my books, not the Revenge.
Although Vloxx gets some +Evil for not listening to Leonardo.

And the PE get +Evil for having such a sour faced nobility... oh and preferring Warm weather over Cold! (I live in Australia so my opinions on this matter may be different here.)


In Summary Revenge is cool, their evil for different reasons!

[Infection Reflection]

I suspect that the current situation involving the CGs is that they were the antagonists in their conflict with the GDs, who may have been there first. Or maybe the CGs pushed in the GDs direction, ignoring the possibility that they could expnad in a totally opposite direction. As for the PEs, Elien stated that Ret was "just one on a list" of many enemies. Other than Ret and Grognack, who else does Elien hate?:confused: As to the rankings, I think that is restricted to the summoners, not the nation as a whole. You can't say the Zombie Warriors are evil, for example, because if they are traditional zombies, they don't think, they just serve:). They have no will. Just an example and the way I see things.

P.S. It occurs to me that while Sneeks ate his mother, that doesn't necessarily mean that all of the CGs eat their mothers. Just a point.:D

[A_Train]

Maybe I'm just racist, but in my version of the games, I'm going to bump the Tundra Orcs up to a 6/4 on the scale. They're an aggressive conquering nation the way I play, heh.

[Infection Reflection]

Maybe I'm just racist, but in my version of the games, I'm going to bump the Tundra Orcs up to a 6/4 on the scale. They're an aggressive conquering nation the way I play, heh.

Hey, you like orcs and I like undead guys. Personally, I'm rooting for the corpses. Go Fallen Kingdom!;) There's nothing wrong with bias in games.:)

[sitnam90]

P.S. It occurs to me that while Sneeks ate his mother, that doesn't necessarily mean that all of the CGs eat their mothers. Just a point. In his bio he actually mentioned how that is the Goblin way to do things. Perhaps all CG don't, but the good ones do?

[Infection Reflection]

In his bio he actually mentioned how that is the Goblin way to do things. Perhaps all CG don't, but the good ones do?

Or maybe just that tribe, or maybe the especially hungry ones, or the extra active ones, etc.;)

[sitnam90]

Or maybe just that tribe, or maybe the especially hungry ones, or the extra active ones, etc.;)

"He chewed at her teat as a little one, and when he was full grown he had strangled her in the night and eaten her corpse. Such was the proper way to do things in a goblin tribe. The old nourished the young, and when the old had nothing left to give, they gave their very flesh and bones."

The definining part there is highlighted. If it was just his tribe it would better say in HIS goblin tribe. But this implies that it is more of a commonplace act among CG as a whole, and it does make sense: such a poor people in a resource poor environment would have to go through extreme measures. Very much like the Fremen in Dune, who have to maintain as much water as they can, even from the dead.

Then we have this quote:

"Sneeks let out a long rolling belch then took another bite of the cooked, greasy leg he had been eating. Whose leg had it been? Blurp´s perhaps."

It doesn't outright say he was eating a goblin; but the goblin like name and the very fact that Sneeks was able to put a name to a leg meant it likely was a goblin. So again, it seems cannibalism is a cultural norm at least among CG, not sure about sand goblins until we have their bios out.

[prometheuslkr]

Actually, I'm not sure if it was an entirely evil act, as he said that his mother accepted the tradition. When the parents have onthing left to give they give their flesh. But other acts of cannibalism are truly evil, like I assume Sneeks murdered Blurp before eating his leg, and then there was that one guy that Sneeks stuck in the ceiling, very cruel method of killing.

[Infection Reflection]

"He chewed at her teat as a little one, and when he was full grown he had strangled her in the night and eaten her corpse. Such was the proper way to do things in a goblin tribe.

Ahh, but notice it was said that that was the proper way of doing things. That means some don't do it. I concede that cannibalism is normal behavior, but not all do it.:D

[sitnam90]

Actually, I'm not sure if it was an entirely evil act, as he said that his mother accepted the tradition. When the parents have onthing left to give they give their flesh. But other acts of cannibalism are truly evil, like I assume Sneeks murdered Blurp before eating his leg, and then there was that one guy that Sneeks stuck in the ceiling, very cruel method of killing.

Good points, but mayb e cannibalism is just a fact of life of CG warfare. Seemed to me it was less murder and more a victory celebration of a battle. Intratribal conflict over leadership? A idealogical schism of values? The fact he knew his name leads me to belive it was one of his own tribe, and the celebration of other goblins and the fact he couldn't exactly remember whose leg it was implies that more then just Blurb was killed.

And sticking a guy to the ceiling was cruel. But Abua Shi killed an innocent servant, and JE are much higher up on good scale. The ceiling guy was a possible usurper to his power; he had to prove his power. Abua Shi was just being a meanie poopoo face

[prometheuslkr]

Actually, Abua Shi probably wouldn't have died if he hadn't killed her. I think a big reason the JE are so far up on goodness is the fact that they aren't at war like everyone else is. Not yet, at least. I mean, their only enemies so far are roving bandits.

[Elcor13]

I would also like to point out that there may be more background to all of this than just the fluff and that Truth invented the game, so he can say people are as evil or as good as he wants lol.

Technically, evil is subjective anyway, at least in modern ways of thinking. Be that as it may, its more than just their actions, it is the mindset as well. Sometimes its ok to go try and kill everything, ie stopping the horde, but obviously Truth feels like the evil factions both think and act evil :D

[sitnam90]

Ofcourse Truth has stated that he has left the factions up for interpretation, so I don't think his opinion on the subject is necessarily the final say as he has given the fans their own room to interpret, which is the mark of good setting creation IMO. I have become a CG apologist because I have the means to do so lol.

Btw, you a Mass Effect Fan?

[Infection Reflection]

I would also like to point out that there may be more background to all of this than just the fluff and that Truth invented the game, so he can say people are as evil or as good as he wants lol.

Technically, evil is subjective anyway, at least in modern ways of thinking. Be that as it may, its more than just their actions, it is the mindset as well. Sometimes its ok to go try and kill everything, ie stopping the horde, but obviously Truth feels like the evil factions both think and act evil :D

I totally agree, it depends on your perspective. The one piece of info I wish I knew was, why does Ret want to conquer everyone?:confused: I am aware of the fact that the more people he kills, the more guys who obey his orders, but what would a dead guy gain by having everyone die? You would run out of people to kill, and then the dead people would stop coming. What's the point??:confused: And it isn't like the dude needs more turf and stuff. If he wanted a bigger country, sneak into graveyards and barrows and raise dead people there, direct them towards your target, and BOOM! undead rebellion underway. Why the militiristic approach? I understand it's faster, but also more expensive. He should have tried attrition. It would have worked better. If you can revive dead guys, attrition isn't a concern for you.;) All of this reasoning proves that Ret has a seriously big motive for doing what he's doing.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

or he is just xenophobic

[Infection Reflection]

or he is just xenophobic

Possible, but then if he was, wouldn't he view the summoning stone as a foreign object?:confused:

[Sera Eldwyn's boyfriend]

Possible, but then if he was, wouldn't he view the summoning stone as a foreign object?:confused:

One would think, or at least I would.

[prometheuslkr]

Look, maybe Ret-Talus was hated as a kid and now he's lashing out against the world. Maybe he's just power-crazed. Maybe he just delights in the agony and suffering of others. Maybe hes just evil with no motive whatsoever, he's just Pure Distilled Evil. Who knows?

[sitnam90]

Ret-talus mentioned in one of thopse fluff stories on the main page something about the old gods or something like that. Maybe that is his motivation?

[Anoir]

Ret- Talus just wants to give everybody the gift of eternal life. So much that when one of his friends dies he is willing to use magic to bring them back from the dead. He also looks to give peace to the world by uniting them under one banner. Many may not like his strategy but all in all he seems like a pretty nice chap.

The Vanguard however are against the gift's that Ret is trying to give to people and are constantly killing his undead friends. The Vanguard also make their people fight and when they are wounded they just pack them so full of drugs that the Vanguard soldiers do not even realize they are wounded.

I have to agree with Rios on his thoughts concerning the fallen kingdom and the Vanguards.

[dyeyk2000]

You're an evil, evil man, Truth. We don't even have the Master Set in our hands yet and you're name dropping on us. That's just not nice...now we need a rampant speculation thread.

Ditto haha.

Also, I never would have thought the TO and the GD were the good guys in the starter sets. I thought the PE were the good guys and the CG were the comedy guys.

And the PE more evil than the SE?

The BE turning out to be not that bad? The MV are actually good guys?

Where are those damn bios when you need em???? Hahaha.

[prometheuslkr]

Ret- Talus just wants to give everybody the gift of eternal life. So much that when one of his friends dies he is willing to use magic to bring them back from the dead. He also looks to give peace to the world by uniting them under one banner. Many may not like his strategy but all in all he seems like a pretty nice chap.

The Vanguard however are against the gift's that Ret is trying to give to people and are constantly killing his undead friends. The Vanguard also make their people fight and when they are wounded they just pack them so full of drugs that the Vanguard soldiers do not even realize they are wounded.

I have to agree with Rios on his thoughts concerning the fallen kingdom and the Vanguards.

Friends. yeah. Like that Dragos chap. Whom Ret-Talus tortured and maimed for no other reason than that Dragos was looking at him funny.

[prometheuslkr]

Also, I don't suppose you could give us the name and morality rating of the 16th faction, Truth? Your 15-faction list is slightly incomplete ;)

[ultimobean]

Friends. yeah. Like that Dragos chap. Whom Ret-Talus tortured and maimed for no other reason than that Dragos was looking at him funny.

Well look at it this way i remember i looked at my father wrong once...and lets just say that was the last time i did that if you catch my drift. Its like a respect thing, you dont look at me talk to me or anything else unless i say otherwise...Ret is actually quite a reasonable man...thing...being..........well lets just say hes reasonable.:D

[Brelgar the Orc]

My theory why Ret-Talus is evil is related to a webcomic called Order of the Stick.

You see, changing oneself into a lich is a fairly evil thing (similar to horcruxes in Harry Potter). Once one becomes a lich, despite the infinite amount of time one now has at hand, to learn and explore, etc, one actually becomes incapable of deriving pleasure from anything except causing pain to living thinking beings. In short, eternity becomes meaningless for you as a lich unless you are an @$$hole. Just my .02 denares.

[Infection Reflection]

Look, maybe Ret-Talus was hated as a kid and now he's lashing out against the world. Maybe he's just power-crazed. Maybe he just delights in the agony and suffering of others. Maybe hes just evil with no motive whatsoever, he's just Pure Distilled Evil. Who knows?

Who knows? Truth does, and he's not talking yet. But I can wait.:D

[spockthemanatee]

:eek: Lots of comments......


Anyways: I like the Cloaks!!! :D Its the whole REVENGE sha-bang Im against... CG are definetly evil.... and the TO..... They remind me of Klingons from star trek.... :D and the FK.... ZOMBIEEEEESSSSS... hahahahahahahah I AM a zombie..... Because its thriller, thriller night...... :p I STILL SAY BENDERS ARE EVIL THOUGH!!!!!!!! :mad:

[Truth]

My scale may be skewed by visions of the future and not necessarily representative of their current evil factor. Redemption may lie in the future for some factions while others turn for the worse.

The PE have a legitimate reason to be angry at the world. But what will that anger drive them to?

Tundra Orcs are cold-blooded killers right? Or is there something about them we don't yet understand? Can a culture that holds war in such high regard control themselves and fight for the right reasons?

If you are playing as the Cloaks, the Benders are just about as evil as it gets, but can their disgust for the undead king not make them a powerful ally in the war for Itharia when teamed up with a faction that is not so inclined to hate them for past offenses?

The future is not yet written. Not even I know where everyone will land... yet.

[sitnam90]

The future is not yet written. Not even I know where everyone will land... yet.

Are you imagining having an advancing storyline narrative for the game? Some games, such as Warhammer 40k, have massive amounts of fluff but have remained relatively at a standstill for a long time. Be nice to see the factions develop over the course of the franchise

[Infection Reflection]

My scale may be skewed by visions of the future and not necessarily representative of their current evil factor. Redemption may lie in the future for some factions while others turn for the worse.

The PE have a legitimate reason to be angry at the world. But what will that anger drive them to?

Tundra Orcs are cold-blooded killers right? Or is there something about them we don't yet understand? Can a culture that holds war in such high regard control themselves and fight for the right reasons?

If you are playing as the Cloaks, the Benders are just about as evil as it gets, but can their disgust for the undead king not make them a powerful ally in the war for Itharia when teamed up with a faction that is not so inclined to hate them for past offenses?

The future is not yet written. Not even I know where everyone will land... yet.

You know this is the most epic card/strategy game I've ever heard of? Including bios, flavor text, background info, motives, etc. I'm getting chills up and down my spine whenever I read that.:o

[dyeyk2000]

My scale may be skewed by visions of the future and not necessarily representative of their current evil factor. Redemption may lie in the future for some factions while others turn for the worse.

The PE have a legitimate reason to be angry at the world. But what will that anger drive them to?

Tundra Orcs are cold-blooded killers right? Or is there something about them we don't yet understand? Can a culture that holds war in such high regard control themselves and fight for the right reasons?

If you are playing as the Cloaks, the Benders are just about as evil as it gets, but can their disgust for the undead king not make them a powerful ally in the war for Itharia when teamed up with a faction that is not so inclined to hate them for past offenses?

The future is not yet written. Not even I know where everyone will land... yet.

Of course you don't mention the Filth. Well done Colby.. well done indeed. Haha.

[Truth]

Yes the plan from the beginning of the fluff writing was to advance the storyline. Now that Dungeon Run is done I need to sit down with Bistro and works some of this out.

[prometheuslkr]

Speaking of which, do you think there'll be any chance of cross-over characters between Dungeon Run and Sumonner Wars?

[Truth]

Speaking of which, do you think there'll be any chance of cross-over characters between Dungeon Run and Sumonner Wars?

We had considered including all 8 Dungeon Run heroes as Summoner Wars champions in the Dungeon Run box. But the art doesn't quite match and we figured that would bother people. And I also didn't know how people would feel about having to buy a non-summoner wars game to keep their summoner wars collection complete.

I have played with the thought of deciding who it is that actually comes out of the Dungeon with the Stone and making that the second summoner for that faction.

[sitnam90]

I have played with the thought of deciding who it is that actually comes out of the Dungeon with the Stone and making that the second summoner for that faction.


Maybe you can have a tourney or series of tourneys, and the character with the most wins gets to become the second summoner.

[eyalswalrus]

You should give the phoenix elves demons,
to make them more evil.
it also makes sense with the fire theme.

[Setharillius]

Filth? what is Filth precious?

[ArcticSnake]

A lot of it is about perspective. They have a way of doing things that isn't exactly conducive with free thought. But they still fight against the Fallen Kingdom. I leave a certain amount of the views on a factions moral standing up to the player/reader. But if I had to create a list going from the most evil to the most good (worst intentions to best intentions) as a whole faction it would go something like this:

Fallen Kingdom 10/0
Filth 10/0
Cave Goblins 10/0
Swamp Orcs 9/1
Phoenix Elves 7/3
Benders 5/5
Sand Goblins 5/5
Deep Dwarves 5/5
Shadow Elves 5/5
Guild Dwarves 5/5
Tundra Orcs 5/5
Cloaks 3/7
Jungle Elves 3/7
Mountain Vargath 2/8
Vanguards 0/10

Also:

I have played with the thought of deciding who it is that actually comes out of the Dungeon with the Stone and making that the second summoner for that faction.

Wild Mass Speculation Time!!!

So are the Grounders 3/7 or 2/8?
[I thought I saw a pattern in evilness scale (or maybe not)... :)]

I could be wrong... maybe the Grounders = the Filth :D

(Edited to point to the correct quote link)

[killercactus]

I have played with the thought of deciding who it is that actually comes out of the Dungeon with the Stone and making that the second summoner for that faction.

That was where I thought you were going, which is a really cool concept if you ask me.

However, if we know the second Cave Goblin summoner is Frick, that might mean poor Stabbins is doomed to fail in the dungeon...... :D

[The Ranger's Apprentice]

I don't think the PE are evil. They are just defending their land from the TO. I mean fire and ice? Bad match-up. Sure, Prince Elien is arrogant (Or supposed to be) but he's not a cold-blooded murderer like Grognack.
About the Benders and Cloaks, I think they are both just half-and-half. Although, the Benders destroying Dagger's home might make them six on the evil scale, maybe seven.

[Kaiser Cat]

That was where I thought you were going, which is a really cool concept if you ask me.

However, if we know the second Cave Goblin summoner is Frick, that might mean poor Stabbins is doomed to fail in the dungeon...... :D
Similarly, I don't think we're going to get a regenerating summoner, much to the Vangaurd's dismay.

[Quintaton16]

Why has nobody mentioned the Guild Dwarves yet? We really haven't heard anything bad about them. We really can't tell who started the Goblin/Dwarf turf war, and in either case its probably a war of survival for both sides by this point. All we know is that their family members keep getting offed in surprise attacks, which makes them far more sympathetic than the totalitarian Benders or warlike Orcs who we know are the aggressors.

At the same time, though, I have to be a Goblin apologist. I really don't see any reason to describe them as malicious. I wouldn't call a pack of wolves malicious, and I don't see anything to suggest that goblins are much different. Their only driving emotion seems to be rage. I can pity something like that, but I can't really blame it any more than I can blame a tree for falling on my house.

I don't know what to think of the Tundra Orcs. They intrigue me. At first I wanted to place them with the Goblins, just as a force of nature, not self-aware enough to question their instincts. But now I don't think that that's quite accurate. It seems like they fall under the "proud warrior race" category, like the Klingons or the Urgals from Paolini's books. I would like to see a little more introspection from a couple of them to back me up there, about how their race is doomed to self-destruction unless it masters its bestial nature, and whatnot.


Is this a measure of the Summoner, or of the faction? It seems like that would substantially affect the ratings of several of these factions. For example, of course, the mostly-good Cloaks being led by Vlox, but also the Benders. The Benders 'army' is made up entirely of elites. The rank-and-file Bender empire doesn't even appear in the faction pack. So that would substantially change the rating.

And I still want to know what Ret-Talus is playing at. Is he pulling a Lord Stanley (from Erfworld), as the ostensibly evil one who in fact (thinks he) is just the only one who understands the gods' intentions and is actually working for the greater good. I kind of doubt it. I don't see how it would be in the gods' best interest to turn everyone in the world into an undead, since we know that skeletons are worth a lot less Magic than living creatures. But if Ret has even a glimpse of what the gods are up to, how does he think he can get away with whatever he's planning behind their backs?

[ArcticSnake]

Maybe Retalus is just angry at everyone because he was rejected from the Human, Elven, Dwarven, and Orcish Academy of the Arts because his paintings suck?

[ArcticSnake]

I think apologies are in order for pulling out a Godwin there... :(

[Elcor13]

I think apologies are in order for pulling out a Godwin there... :(

Bad ArcticSnake :P Bad.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

Ret is gay?

[Infection Reflection]

I know what Ret is planning! He wants to rule all of Itharia, so he goes to war with his unstoppable army of dead people. He destroys all opposition until a country surrenders, then he keeps just enough people alive to continue on throughout the generations. If he rules all of Itharia, the living will be his slaves and the dead his army. After he rules Itharia, he'll look for other lands to conquer. If anyone rebels, he just has to kill them and turn them into a mindlessly obedient slave. In order to prevent everyone from ganging up and killing him, he keeps them at each other's throats and keeps them fighting each other.:)

[sitnam90]

Maybe Retalus is just angry at everyone because he was rejected from the Human, Elven, Dwarven, and Orcish Academy of the Arts because his paintings suck?

I see what you did there. I approve :p

He should of tried the Goblin academy. Wooden masks and cave paintings would of been far easirer to master

[prometheuslkr]

I know what Ret is planning! He wants to rule all of Itharia, so he goes to war with his unstoppable army of dead people. He destroys all opposition until a country surrenders, then he keeps just enough people alive to continue on throughout the generations. If he rules all of Itharia, the living will be his slaves and the dead his army. After he rules Itharia, he'll look for other lands to conquer. If anyone rebels, he just has to kill them and turn them into a mindlessly obedient slave. In order to prevent everyone from ganging up and killing him, he keeps them at each other's throats and keeps them fighting each other.:)

Yes. we know he wants to conquer the world. The question is: why?

[Infection Reflection]

Yes. we know he wants to conquer the world. The question is: why?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... .................................................. .................................................. .. I dunno! Maybe for kicks?

[PePe QuiCoSE]

chick dig world rulers

[Anoir]

Yes. we know he wants to conquer the world. The question is: why?

When you are immortal you will get bored. He's probably doing it to kill time.

[Freddy Finger]

Human are the pest for the earth. Human are the cancer and therefore must die. Mother earth is ill and we're the cure
-Ret Talus

[sitnam90]

chick dig world rulers
And rotting flesh.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

And rotting flesh.
Hugh Hefner

Edit:
Ok, for a change I'll actually contribute to a thread. One concept I would really like and makes a lot of sense to me (and thus, will probably never see it done) is to have an undead faction (Ret in this case) as a way to fight entropy. The idea is that life slowly consumes the world, sort of a Gaia concept, and that the final extermination of the world will be a consequence of just living things since the energy in the world will be always diminishing, eliminating all kind of existence. So the way to fight this is through undeath, since the sustainment for it is much more efficient. While doable it's still fragile so it would require the whole world to go corpse-like. This is actually fitting in SW theme since most factions are likely fighting to "maintain" status quo (going for their personal vendettas with no further goal) while Ret is the only one with an agenda, trying to make the world a "better" place. A final knot for this to tie is the Summoning Stones and the Walls, having them made of "Phlebotinum (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GreenRocks)" as the key to this subject.
Of course, the worst offenders in this case would be the Vanguards since their healing/angel abilities would be the least efficient use of energy accelerating the end of energy (Magic) in the world. Think of it, Ret is the only one that can "create" units while the rest just brings them from somewhere else. Vanguards spends enormous amount of Magic on 1 person.

[Infection Reflection]

Hugh Hefner

Edit:
Ok, for a change I'll actually contribute to a thread. One concept I would really like and makes a lot of sense to me (and thus, will probably never see it done) is to have an undead faction (Ret in this case) as a way to fight entropy. The idea is that life slowly consumes the world, sort of a Gaia concept, and that the final extermination of the world will be a consequence of just living things since the energy in the world will be always diminishing, eliminating all kind of existence. So the way to fight this is through undeath, since the sustainment for it is much more efficient. While doable it's still fragile so it would require the whole world to go corpse-like. This is actually fitting in SW theme since most factions are likely fighting to "maintain" status quo (going for their personal vendettas with no further goal) while Ret is the only one with an agenda, trying to make the world a "better" place. A final knot for this to tie is the Summoning Stones and the Walls, having them made of "Phlebotinum (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GreenRocks)" as the key to this subject.
Of course, the worst offenders in this case would be the Vanguards since their healing/angel abilities would be the least efficient use of energy accelerating the end of energy (Magic) in the world. Think of it, Ret is the only one that can "create" units while the rest just brings them from somewhere else. Vanguards spends enormous amount of Magic on 1 person.

I love and agree with this whole post. Particularly that first sentence.:D

[killercactus]

It's all about the 3 R's - Reduce, Reuse and Recycle.

Ret-Talus is all about the 3 R's. He's the greenest SoB in Itharia. He Reduces the magic on his units by Raising them from the dead, making them cost 1 or 2 magic less. He Reuses them by using them as Magic first, then bringing them into battle through Raising, and then Sacrificing them to Recycle them into MORE magic and more Units.

Those darn wasteful Vanguards spill all kinds of magic into one person only for it to eventually die. And don't even get me STARTED on the Jungle Elves and their insane spending of magic on dudes that don't even wear shirts and on animals, and then they go further by wasting more magic to make them a little stronger for one swing and to heal like the Vanguards do.

[sitnam90]

Problem is, RetItalus is preventing true life from renewing in the world. Preventing bodies for decaying in the soil wastes life, as the ground is prevented from getting the nutrients it needs for the circle of life

[PePe QuiCoSE]

The circle of life is a lie.

[prometheuslkr]

Notice how the only thing ruining our world is Evil, not Good.

[sitnam90]

The circle of life is a lie.

All that is has been before, and will be again. Ret-talus is just too afraid to lose his power, and he tries to break the cycle to gold it. The lies you spew!

[Sauam]

FK is clearly evil! Good indication is that they smells!

No women like smelly men, Old Spice dude told me this once and we all know that guy is god among god! FK = Smells = EVIL

VG forever! Sera smells lovely, I know cause I smell her hair every night :cool:

[The Ranger's Apprentice]

You're going to have to fight SEB for her, according to his name. Ret-Talus just wants the world to be his. Stupid man, world domination never occurs. Movies, books, video games, I don't care! The bad guys never win! So take my advice, Ret... be a good guy. It could pay off.;)

[Marroking1]

You're going to have to fight SEB for her, according to his name. Ret-Talus just wants the world to be his. Stupid man, world domination never occurs. Movies, books, video games, I don't care! The bad guys never win! So take my advice, Ret... be a good guy. It could pay off.;)
You must not have read many good books than. Good does not always win. Some times they fail to do the right thing and boom they lost. Leaving the evil with Victory. Just Saying.

[The Ranger's Apprentice]

What books? Deppressing books that all the good guys die in.

[Quintaton16]

You're going to have to fight SEB for her, according to his name. Ret-Talus just wants the world to be his. Stupid man, world domination never occurs. Movies, books, video games, I don't care! The bad guys never win! So take my advice, Ret... be a good guy. It could pay off.;)

That depends on your definition of winning. I submit this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0763.html) counterargument.

[Arutha]

Tarqin is to smart for his own good

[Sauam]

you know... I bet Ret just angry of Sera because she dump him at the prom back in the days, and now he swore to pay back at any cost

this whole war probably started because of SEB...

[prometheuslkr]

Good always wins IRL, but what law says they have to win in board games?

[sitnam90]

Good always wins IRL, but what law says they have to win in board games?

Do good always win, or do the winners call themselves good?

[Truth]

you know... I bet Ret just angry of Sera because she dump him at the prom back in the days, and now he swore to pay back at any cost

this whole war probably started because of SEB...

Talk about robbing the craddle. Sera is 16 years old. Ret is 2,000+ years old.

[Sera Eldwyn's boyfriend]

Wait, I saw SEB, is that me. What did I cause, and if I did cause it I couldn't help it. Sera's so beautiful, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

[sitnam90]

Talk about robbing the craddle. Sera is 16 years old. Ret is 2,000+ years old.

Ret is a kid at heart.

[The Ranger's Apprentice]

Oh, come on, SEB. She isn't that pretty, and besides, who's to say she doesn't already have a boyfriend? Besides you, I mean.

[Quintaton16]

Another question. What exactly is the timeline of the War of the Summoners. I will assume that all current Summoners are alive simultaneously, and they aren't cherry-picked from various centuries.

We know for certain that Ret-Talus found the first Summoning Stone approximately two thousand years ago (I'll call that year zero), and Lightbringer found the second one about year 1000 and that stone has passed through generations since then. It is now around year 2000 and the bios suggest that everyone but Sera is a first-generation Summoner (except Vlox, who is second-gen). That means there was a 1000-year gap between Ret and Dane Lightbringer, and another 1000-year gap between Dane and everyone else.

We don't know the bios of the Master Set factions, so we can't definitively fit them in yet. It's been revealed that the Shadow Elves were one of the first RL factions designed, so they might canonically date back a little sooner. In addition, the Benders were a major power for quite awhile before the rise of Leonardo and the Cloaks, and I'm going to guess that no empire lasts long on a border with the Fallen Kingdom without a Summoning Stone. That would mean that at least the Benders got a Stone well before 2000. I'd guess an empire that size would require at least 100-200 years to build, but of course, a warrior-king on the order of Alexander the Great could do it in one generation.

The problem with this continuity is the Phoenix Elves. Like I said before, we have every reason to believe that Prince Elien is a first-gen Summoner, but in his bio, Maelena tells him that Lightbringer was trying to build an alliance against Ret-Talus. That means one of two things. Either Maelena has really crappy information (and this is very possible, since presumably a race living in a volcano doesn't get much international commerce), or Elien is actually over 1000 years old. Since a bunch of fantasy setting list the life span of an elf as practically or actually infinite, I can accept this. However, we know that the Phoenix Elves and Tundra Orcs found their Summoning Stones almost simultaneously, suggesting that Grognack is also 1000 years old. Very interesting.

[Elcor13]

The problem with this continuity is the Phoenix Elves. Like I said before, we have every reason to believe that Prince Elien is a first-gen Summoner, but in his bio, Maelena tells him that Lightbringer was trying to build an alliance against Ret-Talus. That means one of two things. Either Maelena has really crappy information (and this is very possible, since presumably a race living in a volcano doesn't get much international commerce), or Elien is actually over 1000 years old. Since a bunch of fantasy setting list the life span of an elf as practically or actually infinite, I can accept this. However, we know that the Phoenix Elves and Tundra Orcs found their Summoning Stones almost simultaneously, suggesting that Grognack is also 1000 years old. Very interesting.

Since there are multiple Lightbringers it is possible that they're talking about Kalon or someone, or even just the one right before Sera (I know she hasn't been in charge long.)

[KCU Master 2007]

Yay Itharian lore!

[The Ranger's Apprentice]

Yeah, I think she just got her Stone. So did Vlox, I think. Actually, I think most of them just got their Stones, although some might be older, like Oldin, and some might be younger, like Sera. I think Elien is older than you think, although Maelana's mentioning Lightbringer might mean, like you said, a Lightbringer right before Sera. Or maybe you live longer when you have a Stone.:)

[prometheuslkr]

Do good always win, or do the winners call themselves good?


And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

Good always wins.

[prometheuslkr]

Or maybe you live longer when you have a Stone.:)

Now that makes sense. It would explain why a 16-year-old girl in a dress can take as many hits as 3 armored knights put together.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

IIRC Sera is the first non-Lightbringer to carry a Summoning Stone.

And did Truth become a unit, has it's own book, and no one told me about it?

[prometheuslkr]

And did Truth become a unit, has it's own book, and no one told me about it?

That would be cool, but no. I was talking about the Book of Truth, aka the Bible.

[The Ranger's Apprentice]

Good should always win. If they don't and all the good guys die, there's a problem. Right?

[Infection Reflection]

Good should always win. If they don't and all the good guys die, there's a problem. Right?

Unless they take the bad guys with them.;)

[Tisroero]

I'm currently writing a novel about the rise of the villain. We see how he's afflicted (adoptive father is burned to death, wife is killed while pregnant), and the lengths he goes to to gain the knowledge and means to avenge his family.
This knowledge is that of his ancestral races, war, tactics, and politics.
Imagine Ret-Talus offering alliances rather than assimilation through conquest, and you'll have a good idea of what it's about.

So really, not all books where the bad guys win are simply about the good guys dying. And in a lot of ways my protagonist, despite technically being a villain, has justifiable actions.

So the concept of morality in Summoner Wars is not new territory for me. There are shades of gray in the story for sure.

But something someone wrote irked me slightly, something about Grognack being a murderer. Last I checked, the only kill he's made that's been written about is a self-defense incident. And while they plan on wiping out the Phoenix Elves, those guys are pretty screwed up anyway, and if the Tundra Orcs succeed in defeating them, it's more of a blessing.

And if that morality scale means more further along the storyline, it means that the PE must win the earlier battles and branch out, attacking everyone, while the TO dedicate themselves to victory over them to make up for their previous failure.

Thus, they will be truly neutral, they aren't inherently good, but they're actions will benefit the other peoples.

One last thing; maybe She gave Grognack the vision. I believe the Elves have truly fallen away.

[The Ranger's Apprentice]

That would be me who called Grognak a murderer. He killed that guy in his bio just to get the Summoning Stone! The PEs aren't really evil, they're just kind of territorial. Prince Elien may be arrogant but he's not evil. Maybe they would be not so evil if Holleas took over...

[Tisroero]

Re-read the bio. The man tried to ambush Grognack. He had it coming, really. And if you don't see how warped the Phoenix Elves are then well, remember that in-fighting is exactly what Ret-Talus has been trying to accomplish. Two of the summoners, Sneeks and Abua Shi, are very likely to be directly influenced by Ret-Talus himself planting summoning stones.
I say this because they both dealt with visions of dead persons, and it'd be an easy matter to use phantoms disguised as the deceased, or even the deceased directly. No doubt others were somehow affected by Ret-Talus's machinations.
How about the factions that aren't? Like say, the PE? They found their own stone, and the choice they made with it wasn't to unite and defeat Ret-Talus, it was to complete their own goals for conquest. Prince Elien is a selfish prick, a godless lesser who plans on using the stone to achieve the most unlikely ends.
The orcs are proud warriors who consider the other races to be food. Horrifying to some, nothing out of the ordinary to them. That's as neutral as neutral gets. the elves are their first target, something that was decided long ago for whatever purpose. The other races are considered ripe for plundering, but if they didn't exist the PE would likely back-stab everyone and then be consumed by Ret-Talus. FK defeats everyone, game over, so to speak. PE and TO just happen to not be a good guys versus bad guys situation.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

[-]PE and[/-] TO were lead by dreams to their Summoning Stones, presumably led by Ret given his agenda. A mysterious stranger sold it to the GD. It's a good bet to say that so far, except the Vanguards (and likely the Cloaks), they were all given by Ret.

edit: Elien has a "friend". Wonder when he'll come out of the closet.

[sitnam90]

I don't know why PE are seen as so evil. Their homeland got smashed by blue orcs, they have to live in frikkin volanoes. I don't see anyone thinking of the cloaks as evil, and their mission for evenge is the same as the PE. It's not optimal, but national rivalries aren't easy to ignore.

[prometheuslkr]

There homeland didn't get smashed by blue orcs, it got smashed by a friggin' Snowstorm!

[Tisroero]

The bios don't say Elien found his in a dream, just that they have a "friend."
Hell, he could be working for Ret-Talus and tricking his own people into thinking they're working against Ret-Talus.

I've no doubt The Fallen Kingdom is behind everything, seeing as that's the major plot point. How much they are is another matter.

[Tisroero]

I don't know why PE are seen as so evil. Their homeland got smashed by blue orcs, they have to live in frikkin volanoes. I don't see anyone thinking of the cloaks as evil, and their mission for evenge is the same as the PE. It's not optimal, but national rivalries aren't easy to ignore.

... there's no ulterior motive beyond revenge. Vlox may think he's gonna crush the empire, then join up with the Vanguards.

I doubt he'll succeed.

[sitnam90]

There homeland didn't get smashed by blue orcs, it got smashed by a friggin' Snowstorm!

But the orcs came later and invaded the elves in their volcanic dwelling, atleast from how Prince Elien's bio describes it. I just don't seem how being under attack by orcs, and wanting revenge for it, is evil. The overall good is hard to see when your rival is at your doorstep

[Tisroero]

Because they aren't just after revenge. Elien is allied with something, and wants to destroy more than just the TO.

He's up to something, and if he succeeds then the entire world is gonna be screwed.

[sitnam90]

Because they aren't just after revenge. Elien is allied with something, and wants to destroy more than just the TO.

He's up to something, and if he succeeds then the entire world is gonna be screwed.
He made it clear that his mission was revenge against those who had wronged him. But he doesn't make hostile statements towards the Vanguards when questioned by Maelaena, and he intends to go after the undead after his vengeance is complete. He speaks of the rebirth of the phoenix elves in a dramatic tone, but he doesn't really make any statements that would be evidence of him attacking the 'great races.' Now who is 'friend' is is certainly important, but if it is Ret-Talus then the dead king must be fooling Prince Elien. Being fooled into evil deeds isn't the mark of being evil.

Prince Elien might have a plan of doom, but to conclude he is up to evil with so little circumstantial evidence isn't the route to prove so.

[Elcor13]

Don't forget that Truth said that the rankings were not necessarily reflective of where each faction is right now, but rather kind of his broad view of them. So where each faction is at the moment they get the stone may change after they've begun using it. They do say that absolute power corrupts, absolutely.

And as to the good guys always winning...well, aside from the fact that there's rarely a clear good and bad guy in conflict, there are certainly times when the bad guys one. Like the Armenian Genocide :-/

[PePe QuiCoSE]

PE don't roll dice. That CLEARLY indicates they are evil.

[sitnam90]

Don't forget that Truth said that the rankings were not necessarily reflective of where each faction is right now, but rather kind of his broad view of them. So where each faction is at the moment they get the stone may change after they've begun using it. They do say that absolute power corrupts, absolutely.

And as to the good guys always winning...well, aside from the fact that there's rarely a clear good and bad guy in conflict, there are certainly times when the bad guys one. Like the Armenian Genocide :-/

Well we can only make our opinions on what we knoiw, but besides that the problem with Truths rankings is that good/evil aren't tangible and can't be measured objectively. So even if we all knew the truth, who's to say we have the same opinion anyway

You Armenian by any chance?

[Elcor13]

Well we can only make our opinions on what we knoiw, but besides that the problem with Truths rankings is that good/evil aren't tangible and can't be measured objectively. So even if we all knew the truth, who's to say we have the same opinion anyway

You Armenian by any chance?

I'm pretty sure that the numbers in fact are pretty tangible...more tangible than the fluff anyway. And sure, people view acts in different lights, but you'd be hard pressed to say that anyone else's view of who's evil or good is more relevant than Truth's, since, you know, he designed the game.

And no, I'm not Armenian, just a fan of history. I point to the fact that over 500,000 people were killed and as far as I know the Turkish Government still hasn't admitted that it happened yet...they say it wasn't a Genocide. Sounds like a win for the bad guys to me :-/

[killercactus]

Sounds like a win for the bad guys to me :-/

You guys ever see the movie Jeepers Creepers? The bad guy definitely wins that one.

But, I guess it's pretty broken when you can just eat a person to regenerate any body part, and also whip a full sized battle axe out of your coat.

[sitnam90]

I'm pretty sure that the numbers in fact are pretty tangible...more tangible than the fluff anyway. And sure, people view acts in different lights, but you'd be hard pressed to say that anyone else's view of who's evil or good is more relevant than Truth's, since, you know, he designed the game.

And no, I'm not Armenian, just a fan of history. I point to the fact that over 500,000 people were killed and as far as I know the Turkish Government still hasn't admitted that it happened yet...they say it wasn't a Genocide. Sounds like a win for the bad guys to me :-/

He designed the game, but from what I remember him stating he has left room for interp in the fluff so that we can decide who is what in the game. Most of his rankings are gray area numbers, and even the straight 10s have been debated here.

Reason I asked is because it seems that only Armenians know about the Armenian Genocide, which is sad.

[mrbistro]

I'm doing some thread necromancy just for fun. Here's my view of the scale.

Fallen Kingdom 10/0
Filth 10/0
Swamp Orcs 9/1
Cave Goblins 7/3
Phoenix Elves 6/4
Benders 6/4
Sand Goblins 6/4
Deep Dwarves 5/5
Guild Dwarves 5/5
Tundra Orcs 5/5
Cloaks 4/6
Jungle Elves 3/7
Mountain Vargath 1/9
Shadow Elves 0/10
Vanguards 0/10

[Sauam]

Mrbistro, I rather like your list much better... no offense Truth :p

However Shadow Elve at 0/10...? That, is, something to think about

[The Ranger's Apprentice]

I quite agree there. Shadow Elves seem no better to me than the Phoenix Elves. Why are the Tundra Orcs more good than the Phoenix Elves? Why are the Jungle Elves so good?

[ChaosChild]

I'm doing some thread necromancy just for fun. Here's my view of the scale.

Fallen Kingdom 10/0
Filth 10/0
Swamp Orcs 9/1
Cave Goblins 7/3
Phoenix Elves 6/4
Benders 6/4
Sand Goblins 6/4
Deep Dwarves 5/5
Guild Dwarves 5/5
Tundra Orcs 5/5
Cloaks 4/6
Jungle Elves 3/7
Mountain Vargath 1/9
Shadow Elves 0/10
Vanguards 0/10

Interesting. Care to elaborate some? Maybe anecdotally in a paragraph or two? :D

[chardris77]

Speaking of which, how are the bios coming, Bistro?

[sitnam90]

I quite agree there. Shadow Elves seem no better to me than the Phoenix Elves. Why are the Tundra Orcs more good than the Phoenix Elves? Why are the Jungle Elves so good?

How do you know anything about the SE? Can't say much about them when nothing has been released

[The Ranger's Apprentice]

They just look evil.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

You can read the back of the box of the Master Set which has a bit of Selundar, were it shows he does not do favors.

Comparing event driven, you can't possibly say the SE (or Selundar) aren't evil. In that sense the list would be:

BD
PE
everyone else
VG (their events are so nice that they are just built as magic!)

[The Ranger's Apprentice]

Why are the Phoenix Elves so evil? That's what I don't understand.

[Klaxas]

They just look evil.


how do you know she is a witch?
she looks like one!

[sitnam90]

Comparing event driven, you can't possibly say the SE (or Selundar) aren't evil. In that sense the list would be:
......not sure if serious.

[Tisroero]

how do you know she is a witch?
she looks like one!

Couldn't have said it better. And as much as sitnam90 and I bicker over good/evil factions(semantics, really) I'm going to second his point. There's nothing to say whether their intentions are good or not. A bit like guilty until proven innocent, only now with reduced black and white.

[Anoir]

Well reading Tacullu's bio really makes me think the Benders are fairly neutral. However Tacullu seems to have his own agenda. I wonder if he's as old as Ret?

[killercactus]

Well reading Tacullu's bio really makes me think the Benders are fairly neutral. However Tacullu seems to have his own agenda. I wonder if he's as old as Ret?

Where is his bio posted?

[Clarissimus]

Somebody on BGG caught Truth playing around with the faction and unit bios. It's still a work in progress but you can see what is up so far. And Truth promised more updates soon.

http://www.plaidhatgames.com/sum_faction_bd.html
http://www.plaidhatgames.com/sum_faction_se.html (Selundar gets to play Mr. Exposition.)

[prometheuslkr]

How do you know anything about the SE? Can't say much about them when nothing has been released

On the back of the Master Set, something has. There we have a scene where Selundar is basically, "Yeah, I just saved your life, but now you owe me big." As opposed to doing the right thing and sparing the dudes' lives and leaving. I'd made him a 1/9 at least for that.

[Clarissimus]

For those who don't own a Master Set, you can read the back of the box here:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/1046759/summoner-wars-master-set?size=large

[The Ranger's Apprentice]

I guess Selundar didn't do anything evil. Neither one did, or at least, that we were told. I wonder what Tacullu looks like under his cloak...

[chardris77]

Ahhhh!!! Click news then faction tab!!! NOW!!!

Edit: well, the B and SE bio's are cool, but the other four pull up JE instead. Is that supposed to happen?

[killercactus]

Ahhhh!!! Click news then faction tab!!! NOW!!!

I'll check after lunch - I keep getting redirected to the JE tab

[flamejuggler]

reading Tacullu's bio, it sounds like he is secretly plotting against the Bender empire, despite clearly being one of the most powerful Benders! wtf! Maybe the 2nd summoner will be the person that is unnamed at the end of the bio (rather than another faction's summoner). interesting that there is conflict within their ranks, and the only leader we know of theirs isnt even on their side really...So what IS his agenda then??? what is the Bender empire's goals at large??

[Elcor13]

Ahhhh!!! Click news then faction tab!!! NOW!!!

Edit: well, the B and SE bio's are cool, but the other four pull up JE instead. Is that supposed to happen?

As of right now all of them but the DD are up. And I'm almost positive that Colby is working to get them up too. So yeah. :)

[sitnam90]

On the back of the Master Set, something has. There we have a scene where Selundar is basically, "Yeah, I just saved your life, but now you owe me big." As opposed to doing the right thing and sparing the dudes' lives and leaving. I'd made him a 1/9 at least for that.

While that seems questionable, his newly released bio makes me lean towards him being a good guy, if not one of the goodest guys in the game. He even talked about peace, which is pretty unheard of for most of the factions

I don't trust Tacullu. He really hasn't done anything evil, he just mind-gamed an uptight demon. But I just have trouble trusting the dude. The Benders seem pretty evil to me. Gulldune is described as being a horror among a people with dark pleasures. The fact that he wasn't arrested or something for his actions makes me think that the Benders are evil.

Krusk seems mischievous and cruel, but I think the savage attitude of the Sand Goblins is more due to environment then just wanting to be jerks. Much like their cave cousins, the Sand Goblins live in a harsh environment in which only the strongest survive. The fact that the goblins are successful in these environments is probably do to their savageness.

I'd rank Tacullu a 5/5 just because we don't know what exactly his intentions are, but I suspect him to be much more evil.

Selundar is a solid 9 good/ 1 bad, just because of the servitude thing. Not really sure what servitude implies, so that could raise or lower his score. But his bio makes him overwhelmingly good.

Krusk is 5/5 to me, just because I don't find goblins that evil but their definitely not good, pretty much neutral

[Arutha]

I dont see anything

[sitnam90]

It doesnt work in the forum, but if you look on the factions tab oin the regular summoner wars website you'll find the new factions

[prometheuslkr]

It doesnt work in the forum, but if you look on the factions tab oin the regular summoner wars website you'll find the new factions

Not for me.

[darkbladecb]

Try clearing your browser cache.

[prometheuslkr]

I still got nothin', could you put the links in this thread please?

[sitnam90]

http://www.plaidhatgames.com/sum_faction_bd.html

From there the tab SHOULD work

[lildrummahboi34]

I think theres a typo in the Javelineer bio. it says cave goblins. no big deal though. Im loving the bios!

[PePe QuiCoSE]

i see it on FF but not on chrome, might be that? safari probably works the same as Chrome.

[sitnam90]

I think theres a typo in the Javelineer bio. it says cave goblins. no big deal though. Im loving the bios!

Good mix of humor and serious story telling. Kreep's bio had me dying wit laughter

[prometheuslkr]

So... are we going to be seeing any more of the 'pink elf' from Mugglgug's bio?
and krusk reveals that summoners can teleport themselves! Will this ever feature in gameplay?

[PePe QuiCoSE]

Grognack had already teleported himself? And I think Sneeks too.
I thought the elf was Selundar? Which by the way the SE sucks, they get all the cool backstory but their are nothing but wimpy elves which are too coward to show how much of an a*hole they are. :mad: Meeeh for the glory!

[killercactus]

I too think the elf is Selundar. I'm more interested about the girl from Tacullu's bio. Sera Eldwyn is my first instinct, but it could be anyone. Even Violet.

[thenightsshadow]

When I finished reading it, I was positive it was 100% Violet.

[Setharillius]

Oddly enough I was thinking of someone within the bender empire...

[PePe QuiCoSE]

yeah, I got it was the next bender summoner or Kalal, who also sees through time or stuff. Why would Onion know about Violet?

[sitnam90]

Well she is part of the Cloak resistance fighting the Benders and the daughter of the founder of the Cloaks. Not a stretch to say he may have some intel on her. But I think it's someone in the bender empire or Sera Eldwyn

[Arutha]

“A man plots against it, He… is you.”


“I do see another. She knows nothing of your plans, but her goals run counter to your own. Yes, she is very strong. Under the right circumstances, she could be your undoing.”

“Who is she?” Tacullu demanded. And the demon gave Tacullu a name he knew all too well.

some one is trying to save the benders :)
so it does not lock like the cloaks

[PePe QuiCoSE]

yeah, was going to say that. The Cloaks want to "beat" the Benders, the Empire. Not specifically Onion.

[Anoir]

Odd the first thing I thought of when I read about "she" was the "her" referred to in Prince Elien's Bio.

Also I like that Tacullu is an Ogre since he has layers. :P

[Laughsalot]

so im a bit confused on whos enemy is whos... im just curious, like is it the shadow elves vs the sand goblins? or shadow elves vs deep dwarves, id just like to know the battle stance on the 6 newest factions.... if someone would be so kind

[chardris77]

Aside from

PE vs TO,
GD vs CG, and
FK vs VG

there aren't really any nemesises. (Nemesi?)

[Sauam]

and krusk reveals that summoners can teleport themselves! Will this ever feature in gameplay?

From what it been told, the Summoning stone grant the owner the power to teleport short distance (I say short because otherwise they would just teleport right next to ret talus face...)



so im a bit confused on whos enemy is whos... im just curious, like is it the shadow elves vs the sand goblins? or shadow elves vs deep dwarves, id just like to know the battle stance on the 6 newest factions.... if someone would be so kind

Not every faction necessary needs an enemy per say, although what's been provide it shows the SE is really good (kind of underground soldier ala terminator John Connor) and already warn the rest of more peaceful faction about the up coming war, such as the MV, those people at the swamp village... so on

Speaking of SE and John Connor, that is how I feel about them, they are unseen but has the purest intention to cleanse the world (or fight against the inevitable destruction of war)

Great Bios, we finally gets what we've been waiting for before the next excitement which are the iOS sw app!

[airdroppers]

Where do I find these new bios? :confused:

[Sauam]

Where do I find these new bios? :confused:

Try clearing your browser cache

or try this link

http://www.plaidhatgames.com/sum_faction_bd.html

or if you using google chrome, try using incognito mode

[killercactus]

Another rivalry is Cloaks vs Benders, and Sand Goblins vs big bugs

[The Ranger's Apprentice]

What are the big bugs?:confused:

[PePe QuiCoSE]

also there are rumors about an upcoming one between Mugglug and Toilet Paper

[Setharillius]

What are the big bugs?:confused:

You know... sikka sikka beetles and such.

(It's in Krusks Bio)

[killercactus]

What are the big bugs?:confused:

The big bugs they talk about killing in the bios - though I doubt they have a summoning stone.

[airdroppers]

Try clearing your browser cache

or try this link

http://www.plaidhatgames.com/sum_faction_bd.html

or if you using google chrome, try using incognito mode

Porno mode, oops I mean incognito mode works just fine, thanks.


:D

[sitnam90]

One thing that humors me about the new bios is the transition of Ret-talus from doom of the earth to a pawn in the Stewards game. The FK, VG, PE, and CK bios all make the FK out to be a very scary force, but the MV, SE, and BD bios take away a lot of that scare factor

Ofcourse, we have no idea how much Ret-Talus knows about his puppet master and if he fears him or not. After thousands of years, he probably figured something out

[Laughsalot]

From what it been told, the Summoning stone grant the owner the power to teleport short distance (I say short because otherwise they would just teleport right next to ret talus face...)




Not every faction necessary needs an enemy per say, although what's been provide it shows the SE is really good (kind of underground soldier ala terminator John Connor) and already warn the rest of more peaceful faction about the up coming war, such as the MV, those people at the swamp village... so on

Speaking of SE and John Connor, that is how I feel about them, they are unseen but has the purest intention to cleanse the world (or fight against the inevitable destruction of war)

Great Bios, we finally gets what we've been waiting for before the next excitement which are the iOS sw app!



ohhhh.... mhm k, thanks for lettin mekno guys! :)

[prometheuslkr]

So... Tundle's bio is up. You have to wonder: What is the Devourer of Worlds? The Avatar? Is there any truth in what the council members said, or was it all deception by Kynder? Like the human man who is no longer human and the female he shall do violence against. Ret-Talus and Sera? Tacullu and The Name He Knows All Too Well? How long have they had the Father Gem?

[prometheuslkr]

Porno mode, oops I mean incognito mode works just fine, thanks.


:D

:mad: That hardly needed mentioning...

[Aleph]

So... Tundle's bio is up. You have to wonder: What is the Devourer of Worlds? The Avatar? Is there any truth in what the council members said, or was it all deception by Kynder? Like the human man who is no longer human and the female he shall do violence against. Ret-Talus and Sera? Tacullu and The Name He Knows All Too Well? How long have they had the Father Gem?

I know, right? It's like trying to figure out whether the whole movie of the Usual Suspects is a lie...

Presumably the events of the Bender and DD stories align to reveal at least a partial truth.

[glenn3e]

This thread is interesting and deserves a bump

[mrbistro]

More thread necromancy! Itharia's storylines have developed, and here's my revised scale to reflect that:

Fallen Kingdom 10/0
Filth 10/0
Swamp Orcs 9/1
Cave Goblins 7/3
Phoenix Elves 6/4
Benders 7/3
Sand Goblins 7/3
Deep Dwarves 5/5
Guild Dwarves 5/5
Tundra Orcs 5/5
Cloaks 4/6
Jungle Elves 5/5
Mountain Vargath 1/9
Shadow Elves 1/9
Vanguards 0/10
Mercenaries (Rallul's company)

It's kind of hard to give the Vanguards a perfect 10 on the good scale, but I've tried to judge the faction's intentions. I choose not to rate Rallul's company yet.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

god I hate Selundar.

[Phoenixio]

Me too. I had hoped the number of good guys would stay minimal with the Vanguards, and that the others all had hidden agendas, lowering their scores. Why would two isolated races, aka the Shadow Elves and the Mountain Vargath, want to fight for everyone else? Be more like the original factions and fight for your own reasons instead of being gentle to all living beings! Get real!

As for the Filth, I've always seen them like a very very little group of cultists following a mad prophet or something. That prophet is lonesome and travels the roads with no goal. He ends up in the path of others, and those others despise his mutated look and the ill omens that follows him, or want his summoning stone. They thus often engage into battle against this easy prey. Little do they know of how much he can mutate his innocent looking followers, and this man with no allies ends up killing a lot of people. And that's why he's so "evil" on that scale.

At least that's what I see when looking at the Demagogue's starting setup. Neat huh?

[Ryujin]

I think the mercenaries should be rated 1/1/$8$. (Although I dunno about Rallul's lot.)

Also, remember, this is based on the factions' intentions. Selunder might have the best intentions in the world, but the way he carries them out might be a little naughtier then 1/9

[thenightsshadow]

More thread necromancy! Itharia's storylines have developed, and here's my revised scale to reflect that:

Fallen Kingdom 10/0
Filth 10/0
Swamp Orcs 9/1
Cave Goblins 7/3
Phoenix Elves 6/4
Benders 7/3
Sand Goblins 7/3
Deep Dwarves 5/5
Guild Dwarves 5/5
Tundra Orcs 5/5
Cloaks 4/6
Jungle Elves 5/5
Mountain Vargath 1/9
Shadow Elves 1/9
Vanguards 0/10
Mercenaries (Rallul's company)

It's kind of hard to give the Vanguards a perfect 10 on the good scale, but I've tried to judge the faction's intentions. I choose not to rate Rallul's company yet.

I guess I kinda have no real say on it, being the fact I'm just a fan of the game, but I see the factions slightly differently than the list shows. It might be because I'm focusing on a different tenet, but here's what I think.

Swamp Orcs 10/0
Filth 9/1
Cave Goblins 8/2
Fallen Kingdom 8/2
Phoenix Elves 8/2
Benders 7/3
Sand Goblins 6/4
Deep Dwarves 6/4
Cloaks 5/5
Jungle Elves 5/5
Guild Dwarves 4/6
Tundra Orcs 4/6
Mountain Vargath 3/7
Shadow Elves 2/8
Vanguards 1/9

[glenn3e]

So Mr.Bistro....I heard that you were the mastermind behind the stories of Itharia. When can we see an update to the Almanac and new faction stories :D. Your rating on Deep Dwarves is interesting. I always thought of Tundle being up to no good, but maybe he just wants to venture out to the surface world. :D:D:D

[sitnam90]

It must just be me but why is Tundra Orcs at 4/6 or 5/5 morality just seems wrong to me. They don't seem to have any qualities besides being bloodthirsty barbarians. I'd personally put them closer to the red side of the morality scale, at least as much if not more then PE.


Me too. I had hoped the number of good guys would stay minimal with the Vanguards, and that the others all had hidden agendas, lowering their scores. Why would two isolated races, aka the Shadow Elves and the Mountain Vargath, want to fight for everyone else? Be more like the original factions and fight for your own reasons instead of being gentle to all living beings! Get real!
I'm glad we get a few other "good" guys. Really most belong in that grey region IMO, but I think that a balance of the super evil and the super good should be on the extremes. It's not like MV and SE are perfect angels either, but compared to the Benders or Filth they are pretty good.

[prometheuslkr]

More thread necromancy! Itharia's storylines have developed, and here's my revised scale to reflect that:

Fallen Kingdom 10/0
Filth 10/0
Swamp Orcs 9/1
Cave Goblins 7/3
Phoenix Elves 6/4
Benders 7/3
Sand Goblins 7/3
Deep Dwarves 5/5
Guild Dwarves 5/5
Tundra Orcs 5/5
Cloaks 4/6
Jungle Elves 5/5
Mountain Vargath 1/9
Shadow Elves 1/9
Vanguards 0/10
Mercenaries (Rallul's company)

It's kind of hard to give the Vanguards a perfect 10 on the good scale, but I've tried to judge the faction's intentions. I choose not to rate Rallul's company yet.

Here's a list comparing these to Truth's earlier ratings:

Fallen Kingdom: 0
Filth: 0
Cave Goblins: +3
Swamp Orcs: 0
Phoenix Elves: +1
Benders: -2
Sand Goblins: -2
Deep Dwarves: 0
Shadow Elves: +4
Guild Dwarves: 0
Tundra Orcs: 0
Cloaks: -1
Jungle Elves: -2
Mountain Vargath: +1
Vanguards: 0

So Selundar got his rightful gold stars, the Cloaks are on a trajectory into bitter revenge-ness, Frik and Maldaria bring partial redemption for their races, and the Jungle Elves are apparently finally going to do something.

[prometheuslkr]

It must just be me but why is Tundra Orcs at 4/6 or 5/5 morality just seems wrong to me. They don't seem to have any qualities besides being bloodthirsty barbarians. I'd personally put them closer to the red side of the morality scale, at least as much if not more then PE.

Remember that this is based on the author's perspective, not the readers'. I think a lot of this is based on future plans, perhaps as far as the second summoners.

[mrbistro]

When can we see an update to the Almanac and new faction stories
Soon! New material has been created, but awaits the site revamp.

[chardris77]

Soon! New material has been created, but awaits the site revamp.

It exists, yet is unreachable? NOOOOOOO!!!