Any strategy posts for the jungle elves?

[bmwrider]

I just ordered JE and would like something to read on them so I don't have to get started without any idea of how to use them.

If its already posted please give me a link, my search did not so much.

[Sera Eldwyn's boyfriend]

Well, it's hard to give strategy tips to other people because everyone plays differently. My personal strategy with the JE is to keep constant pessure with the Lioness, draw away some of their forces. Once a path is cleared to their summoner I will summon a Lioneer and charge at him. With Champs I would rather go with Shikwa and Miti, but again that goes with preference.

[killercactus]

Build a lot of magic, and try to anticipate drawing event cards to setup combos.

[Ranior]

I just ordered JE and would like something to read on them so I don't have to get started without any idea of how to use them.

If its already posted please give me a link, my search did not so much.

If you've seen KCU's recent Vanguard strategy thread, I plan on doing one very similar with the Jungle Elves. I've put together some of it, but I wanna make sure I put out something thourough and well wrote.

So if you give me a few days, I think you'll find something very useful.

As is, till then, the strength of the Jungle Elves is their strong Champions (particularly Miti Mumway), and their high mobility. They also "break" some rules in summoner wars, such as Lioneers being able to move 7 straight line spaces, Archers shooting over units, and being able to use CoD and other things to move units.

So basically your goal should be to flex that power. Build magic, summon Miti Mumway when you can. Use Chant of Haste to stomp over a common and get to the summoner. Use Chants of Life to keep him alive.

Summon commons sparingly--they are all low life and will give your opponent magic quickly. Use your CoN if there is a need, build them as magic otherwise. Finally, do not Chant of Growth too often, it usually is a waste of an attack and magic. Oh, and Abua's 3 ranged attack can be useful....and with 5 life you can let him take a hit or two usually. Use him wisely, but he can be a good attack if you are being overran.

[Infection Reflection]

Another thing is to decide which champs to use. Use Makeinda for melee champs like Grognack or Sneeks, and maybe Vlox, and use Shikwa on ranged champs. Miti is good for all.

[r0gershrubber]

Against frail Summoners, I've had good success with a relentless onslaught on the Summoner, using Lioneers, Archers, Chant of Haste, Chant of Deception, and Chant of Growth (and Chant of Salvation). Miti Mumway would work also, but this approach often ends the game with less than half of the deck drawn. The Jungle Elves want to build magic aggressively anyway, and this forces your opponent to respond similarly, which is less likely to play into his faction's forte.

Limit your common summoning to those that are opportunistic (e.g. only summon Archers when they can take a shot at the Summoner). Also, try to keep 3 magic in your magic pile to force your opponent to block possible Lioneer summoning lanes.

[Sauam]

Anyone on an in depth strategy book on JE any time soon?

I been wanting to pick up JE once I am done with CL... starting to play JE today and failed horribly. I have face them here and there with VG and CL, thus I do understand their theme a little, but once I take the driver seat, I totally crumble

Few thing I see I have trouble is, mainly their magic, they have no CUE what-so-ever, I just not sure how to manage the magic pile... if I dont summon, I'll get out number and lose control, if I summon I will bottom out and all my common are weak as a twig >___>

[iglew]

Few thing I see I have trouble is, mainly their magic, they have no CUE what-so-ever, I just not sure how to manage the magic pile...

Lack of magic is definitely the JE's big weakness. They are extremely vulnerable to being magic-starved, especially by a faction with Magic Drains. (I'm starting to think the stock GD>JE rivals stock PE>VG as a lopsided match, and for pretty much the same reasons.)

You'll do better if your opponent is someone who just likes to attack, but if he's not, it's hard to force him to summon stuff for you to kill. Having three in the magic pile to threaten a Lioneer makes a huge difference since it will oblige your opponent to fill the lanes with something. Seven in the pile is also a strong threat, since Shikwa plus Chant of Haste can put four dice on a summoner almost anywhere if he isn't properly surrounded.

I think JE probably benefit more than any other faction from cannibalizing their own units, both to collect the magic and ward off CUEs. I would definitely consider killing one or both of the starting archers, and watch for opportunities where you can summon a Lioness to kill something then take out the Lioness from behind with Abua or an Archer. And same idea if you ever end up with a wounded Lioneer.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

While that IS awesome as a starter, it makes them extremely vulnerable to rush. You have to wait to go for it when you know you can deal with anything they can drop at you without endangering Abua too much.

[esper88]

Basically, if you've learned how to play with the Vanguards you can learn to play with the Jungle Elves. Or at least the way I play the Vanguards:

Focus on heroes to an extreme degree. If your opponent pushes with a lot of commons, go tit for tat with your own commons, but aside from that you're going to want to make sure you get out those champions.

Generally Lionesses are your bread and butter as far as commons go. If you get in a situation where you need a common unit, go with the Lioness. Use Archers if you need to shoot over your own Champions/Lionesses etc. to get at something valuable that's blocked by a narrow pass of walls, etc.

Lioneers are incredible, but don't go too crazy. You need to make sure you have enough magic for your Champions. So basically, if you can get a really good shot at a summoner or champion, and you are reasonably sure you'll still get your champions out, go for the Lioneer.

As far as the events go, they need to be used when there is a real niche situation for them. An easy example is if you can Chant of Haste your Miti Mumway to your opponents summoner. Chant of Negation is also incredible from time to time, such as against the Cave Goblins which can only get 3 attacks in and most events are nullified. Chant of Life is going to be your go-to event card, as it's almost always worth it to heal one of your champions.

Abua Shi's ability is used 1.If you get your Lioneer or Miti or whatever next to the opponent's summoner and you can spare the attack. 2. On Shikwa when you can spare the magic and attack. This is easiest to judge effectiveness late game, when you have an idea of how much magic you can spare. 3. Late game when you've got some extra magic and you don't need Abua to attack.

And basically that's it. Somewhat similar to the Vanguards, but they've got their own style. I'm sure there's a lot more to say and I probably got some things slightly wrong, but this is the general idea.

[killercactus]

I just had a big post typed out and lost it, so now this is going to be shorter.

Killing your own units is awesome in the early game for the JE. It might make them susceptible to being rushed or having their walls attacked, but in my experience the threat of a Lioneer rush helps prevent that.

If you go first, try to get to 8 magic by the end of your second turn. If you go second, try to get to 6 magic by the end of your first turn. That means you'll probably be building at least 3 of your first 5 cards you draw as magic, and killing some of your own starting commons. You want to have enough magic to be able to summon a champion soon (especially Miti - I've still never seen an early Miti fueled by Chants defeated, and its going on 7-8 games now. I've been the victim, too [curse you Ranior and your early Miti + double CoH crap]), or at least be able to threaten summoning a champ or 2 Lioneers.

Remember that you can have no magic in your magic pile at the beginning of your attack phase and still plan to use CoG. You just have to kill something before your planned CoG unit attacks. That can be accomplished by attacking and killing another unit with your first attack, or Trampling something en route with Miti or an Elephant. I've even used Vermin to Plague something (they make an interseting combo with CoH incidentally, but I've shyed away from playing that).

Lastly, remember what Jexik said - "The JE are the kick you in the face faction." Look to setup that big turn where you just pin your opponent to the wall and kick him in the face. Like the Cloaks, they're a tricky bunch of dudes and dudettes. Try to plan out a turn where you get a Lioneer at the summoner by using a CoD or even a CoH/CoD combo. Even the double CoH on a champion is very effective (especially if it's Miti). Chant of Salvation is immensely useful in setting one of these big combos up. Use CoN when you can bypass defensive abilities with it or screw your opponent when they can use their abilities to thwart your plan. Use CoL when you have a wounded champion deep in their territory after you've made your "big play". Setting up this turn may involve baiting your opponent into moving to the right place. That is difficult.

Also, remember that CoH and CoD work on Abua Shi. Don't be afraid to CoD Abua Shi into the opposing summoners face if you can swap him with an Archer, but only if he can get the kill shot reliably. Also you can use those to get him out of trouble.

[Jexik]

That "kick you in the face" faction comment was originally put side by side with the Cloaks being the "kick you in the nuts" faction.

Tundra Orcs, by contrast, are the "body blow, followed by a punch to the face" faction.

Phoenix Elves are the "Not the face!" faction.

Vanguards are "rope a dope."

Fallen Kingdom are steroid abusers.

Etc.

[Freddy Finger]

So you guys saying the jungle elves plays like the cloaks?? Ya they both have what you guys call combo type events but I never see how they play the same. Jungle elves are much more swarming than cloak, that's for sure.

[killercactus]

So you guys saying the jungle elves plays like the cloaks?? Ya they both have what you guys call combo type events but I never see how they play the same. Jungle elves are much more swarming than cloak, that's for sure.

That bold part depends on how you play them. They have the ability to swarm and wall-choke with Lionesses if you want to, or they can drop a champion and Chant at it like crazy, making it a complete powerhouse.

I think they're a bit like the Cloaks in that you need to plan out a combo a turn or two before you actually do it. Cloaks have more of this because their attacks are small and surgical, but I've seen some really big JE turns that win games right then and there. Ala the kick to the face.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

What they do have in common with the Cloaks is that they have 50 ways to screw your summoner.

[Jexik]

They're similar in that they have lots of speed and reach. JE are a little more straightforward and honorable. They just hit you hard. Cloaks hit you less hard, but where it counts.

[Infection Reflection]

I'll be metaphoric. The Cloaks are like a shadow with a knife. You don't know it's there until too late. The JEs are like fighting a giant scorpion. It rushes you and kills you with one gory sting.

[Sauam]

I dont think JE is directly comparable to CL... rather I see JE as a mixture of CG's swarm + CL's tricky event + GD's strong champ

because of that, I can see many different JE play style... wall choke/destruct style with mass unit like goblin, sneaky solo target style like cloak, or champ heavy style like GD... perhaps thats the reason I am struggling in using JE for now

coming from playing CL heavily, I can see the biggest different between JE and CL is that JE is tricky with many units and CL is sneaky with very little units... there is different between tricky and sneaky

where enemy can account and ready for JE's tricky event; but CL's sneakiness cannot
and where JE creates their own opportunity; but CL has to wait for theirs

[Sauam]

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Good read guys, it definitely help me see how JE works as the driver rather than just playing against it, thumbs up

[iglew]

coming from playing CL heavily, I can see the biggest different between JE and CL is that JE is tricky with many units

I don't think JE lend themselves well to many units at all. They're just too vulnerable to being magic-starved that way. The JE deck has relatively expensive units, with extra non-summon ways to spend magic (ie, CoL and Abua's CoG), and no CUE or other magic-gaining events. All three champions are good. If you summon a lot of commons you're pretty much giving up on one champ and potentially cutting into your CoG/CoL supply as well.

I see the magic-poorness as the essential quality of the JE deck. The significant difference is that while other expensive decks (eg, Vanguards) are built for the long haul, the JE are best going for a quick win. Like the Cave Goblins, they don't play for the endgame. They need to throw the deck into mounting an attack. But whereas the CG do that mostly with commons, the JE does it mostly with champions.

(The usual caveat that it all depends on the opponent and the circumstances, but that's how I see the JE playing most of the time.)

[Sauam]

but aside from Lioneer, JE's common are all 1 cost, the lioness is one of the most offensive common in the game and can choke wall very easily... so I dont see JE as expensive at all, just that they have zero CUE which is where it hurts most

thing is CL can and will actually want to have like 3 total unit on the board, or less, their game style just force them that way... where JE just cannot do that, if they had less then three then it is a waste on lioness's movement ability, and hamper their events effectiveness (their event work best with more unit you have)

of course that goes back to what I said about them, they can play common heavy style or just simply forgo them and head for their champion, both works... but when it comes to JE and CL direct comparison, CL simply uses much less units... hence my quoted line

[darkbladecb]

but aside from Lioneer, JE's common are all 1 cost, the lioness is one of the most offensive common in the game and can choke wall very easily... so I dont see JE as expensive at all, just that they have zero CUE which is where it hurts most

thing is CL can and will actually want to have like 3 total unit on the board, or less, their game style just force them that way... where JE just cannot do that, if they had less then three then it is a waste on lioness's movement ability, and hamper their events effectiveness (their event work best with more unit you have)

of course that goes back to what I said about them, they can play common heavy style or just simply forgo them and head for their champion, both works... but when it comes to JE and CL direct comparison, CL simply uses much less units... hence my quoted line

Alternatively, the Jungle Elves are also the most successful pure Champ spam deck in the game, since you can Chant of Life and Chant of Haste Champions.

The fabled Champ Heavy metagame was a direct result of Jungle Elf playtesting and the subsequent success of that playstyle with this deck. To that end, I find that I build more aggressively with the Standard Jungle Elves than any single deck build in the entire game for any faction.

[iglew]

Another thing that makes the JE plausible for a pure champ strategy is that two of the champs have the ability to kill two commons in one turn.

[iglew]

but aside from Lioneer, JE's common are all 1 cost, the lioness is one of the most offensive common in the game and can choke wall very easily... so I dont see JE as expensive at all, just that they have zero CUE which is where it hurts most

You're right about the commons, but even so, no CUE of any sort, most expensive set of champions, and magic cost for CoL and CoG adds up to expensive for me.

Still, you've piqued my interest. I'm curious to try a lots-of-Lioness strategy, which I've never really explored. I could see it against certain factions, like maybe the PE. I'm just afraid it will enable the opponent's CUE's (especially Magic Drains) and give away too much magic in the form of Lionesses, too. Sounds like something fun to try, though.

[Setharillius]

With the new commons in Hawk's Strike, the commons are more expensive.
When I play the jungle elves I try to keep a low unit count early on so I won't get hit with magic drain and the like, that paired with the fact that I'm not summoning loads of commons means sooner champions. I also cannibalize my first couple of units and build magic heavily.
usually ends in loads of magic.

[I Hate Atlaga]

Wow, so many heroscapers over here! Hey guys!

I've only played once total, a loss for the JE against some nasty Swamp Orcs, so don't listen to anything I say, but. . .

The Lioneers are deadly but hard to use. I like getting a surgical first strike at the beginning of the game with the starting Lioneer. I've found however, that it's difficult to summon more, much less in a position where they can unleash a decent attack. I would rely mainly on Miti and the Lionesses, although Lionesses aren't so good against Smashers, because of fear. Also, don't be afraid to use Abua Shi offensively. With some timely Chants of Life, he's a force to be reckoned with.

[prometheuslkr]

Wow, so many heroscapers over here! Hey guys!

I've only played once total, a loss for the JE against some nasty Swamp Orcs, so don't listen to anything I say, but. . .

The Lioneers are deadly but hard to use. I like getting a surgical first strike at the beginning of the game with the starting Lioneer. I've found however, that it's difficult to summon more, much less in a position where they can unleash a decent attack. I would rely mainly on Miti and the Lionesses, although Lionesses aren't so good against Smashers, because of fear. Also, don't be afraid to use Abua Shi offensively. With some timely Chants of Life, he's a force to be reckoned with.

The main problem with an offensive Abua being that Chant of Life can't be used to heal a Summoner... (and I think you mean Savagers not Smashers).

If you build most of those Lionesses and Archers it's not that hard to get Lioneers out. Whether you can use them effectively just depends on whether your opponent is blocking up all of the attack lanes. Against the SO, yes, it would be hard to use them because they usually have a lot of Vine Walls clogging up the board.

[Ranior]

Wow, so many heroscapers over here! Hey guys!

I've only played once total, a loss for the JE against some nasty Swamp Orcs, so don't listen to anything I say, but. . .

The Lioneers are deadly but hard to use. I like getting a surgical first strike at the beginning of the game with the starting Lioneer. I've found however, that it's difficult to summon more, much less in a position where they can unleash a decent attack. I would rely mainly on Miti and the Lionesses, although Lionesses aren't so good against Smashers, because of fear. Also, don't be afraid to use Abua Shi offensively. With some timely Chants of Life, he's a force to be reckoned with.

Yeah, Lioneers against SO aren't all that useful, partly because of Vine Walls, partly because Muglug is so tough with 7 life.

Overall when I play Jungle Elves (which I do alot...when I play. It has been far too long...), I usually only summon up maybe one more Lioneer than the starting one. I'd recommend with the Jungle Elves working hard to get Miti or Makienda Ru out when you can. Shikwa isn't as strong in my opinion, the other two are gonna help lead to success, particularly Miti.

But really it sounds like at this stage your best bet to get better is play some games. Speaking of which, I should do soon. Which, if you wanna get some more plays in, there is this online system called Vassal. Check out the link in my sig, and you can get started. It's pretty awesome.

[Shockma Ranyk]

Wow, so many heroscapers over here! Hey guys!

I've only played once total, a loss for the JE against some nasty Swamp Orcs, so don't listen to anything I say, but. . .

The Lioneers are deadly but hard to use. I like getting a surgical first strike at the beginning of the game with the starting Lioneer. I've found however, that it's difficult to summon more, much less in a position where they can unleash a decent attack. I would rely mainly on Miti and the Lionesses, although Lionesses aren't so good against Smashers, because of fear. Also, don't be afraid to use Abua Shi offensively. With some timely Chants of Life, he's a force to be reckoned with.

Chant of Life cannot be used on Abua. A summoner with virtually nine life at the cost of two magic would be extremely powerful though...

[I Hate Atlaga]

Heh. I was sure it could be used on a Summoner. . .

Maybe we won't mention that anymore.

[Barliman]

As far as I can remember, there is no faction that can heal its summoner.

[iglew]

As far as I can remember, there is no faction that can heal its summoner.

Technically, Sera can remove wound markers from herself with an Intercession. But then she has to put them right back on....

[Sauam]

Technically, Sera can remove wound markers from herself with an Intercession. But then she has to put them right back on....

Ha, talk about trolling... never knew Sera is such a troll lol