Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here! [Archive] - Page 3

Barliman

04-10-2012, 08:25 PM

Really? So a defender could prevent the entire pride from moving because you wouldn't be able to move all of them?
No. The "up to 2 spaces each" demonstrates that it is not required to move each Lioness, so if one of them is prevented from moving, it has not impact on the others. This is a situation where moving 0 spaces, and not moving, are considered functionally equivalent, since the purpose of the Lionesses' ability is to allow them to move each turn for free, not to invoke a side effect of moving.

Would all Lionesses trigger fear if they're adjacent to Savagers, since you have to move all of them?
Again, no; as before, I'm certain that is not the intent. I like these questions since they show an awareness of the subtleties of the rules wordings. Even if you take it strictly you can avoid Fear by declining to move any of your Lionesses; but I'm sure the intent is to say "you may move any or all Lionesses that you control". Now, being aware of your question, I wish it had said that.

thenightsshadow

04-10-2012, 09:50 PM

Would all Lionesses trigger fear if they're adjacent to Savagers, since you have to move all of them?

To add on to the ruling Barliman gave, which I believe is the correct one, Units that start adjacent to a Unit with Fear jave the option of moving 0. If they do, they do not trigger Fear.

JYoder

04-11-2012, 10:12 AM

Phoenixio -- Did you ever determine an official ruling on moving an opponent's units that have abilities that trigger when they move? This is where you last left it...

My first impression is that Vermins and Lun do trigger if they are moved by Controllers or any other means your opponent can use. However, there is NO doubt that it's still the Vermin or Lun's controller that has to use the ability.

I'll however admit that, after reading the cards over and over again, there is indeed some subtlety in the sentences. One could interpret it so that it has to be the controller of those units that has to move them so their ability triggers. I'm pretty sure it's case number 1, but I'll still ask so we are 100% sure.

Phoenixio

04-11-2012, 01:25 PM

Didn't get any news about it, sorry. The team is in "hyperactive mode", so I guess the question got lost in the flow. I'll see if I can ask Jexik or Truth directly at a moment they won't be able to flee :rolleyes:

airdroppers

04-13-2012, 05:17 PM

Wow, so Lun can "counter act" to a Controller? That is just amazing.

lightstriker

04-13-2012, 09:29 PM

Sorry, this is... a very stupid question :D But, regardless:

If Miners activate tunneling, can some of the Miners still move normally, or must they all tunnel?

Thank you.

joepinion

04-13-2012, 09:52 PM

Yes, some of them can move normally. Tunnel is optional. (Hence the phrase "may place...")

Thx1139

04-15-2012, 11:14 AM

Hello,

I need a clarification about something which is certainly obvious.

Concerning the Phoenix Elves Archer, what means "4 clear straight line space away".

Does it mean :

You can wound target at 5 spaces from you (Archer-4 clear spaces-target).
Or
You can wound target at 4 spaces from you (Archer-3 clear spaces-target).

It's the same with Prince Elien and the "within 2 clear line spaces" :

Is it "a target at 3 spaces" (PElien-2 clear spaces-Target)
or
"a target at 2 spaces" (PElien-1 clear spaces-Target)

For a non native english speaker, it doesn't seem so obvious.

Thanks for your help.

thenightsshadow

04-15-2012, 01:33 PM

If you draw a straight line from the Unit attacking to the target, count the Unit attacking as space 0. Normal Ranged Units can attack up to 3 straight line spaces away, so when counting for them, count the Ranged Unit as 0, then the next space as 1, and so on.

That should help with how you use them.

cmgames

04-15-2012, 01:55 PM

And "clear line" means that there can't be anything else in the intervening spaces.

This is what frustrates me about the PE summoner and the Bender's summoner. It is almost impossible to use their abilities without putting them right out in the action. Other summoners' abilities can be used far more effectively without needing to expose them to the enemy.

~Z

Renard

04-15-2012, 02:10 PM

Well, if they didn't need clear spaces both powers would get pretty abusive, especially Elien's. Also, Elien has warriors, who can protect him after he uses his ability and Tacullu has controllers, who can bring enemy units closer to him so he can use his ability and still stay protected.

prometheuslkr

04-15-2012, 07:11 PM

So to summarize:
Normal range is: attacking unit-up to 2 spaces-target
Far Shot is: archer-up to 3 spaces-target

Note the wording: within 2/3/4 spaces. Highlight 4 spaces going out from the archer. The target has to be within the highlighted area.

airdroppers

04-24-2012, 02:10 PM

I just want to confirm this; If Lun gets moved by a Controller, can he spend a magic to activate his ability off turn?

killercactus

04-24-2012, 02:46 PM

I just want to confirm this; If Lun gets moved by a Controller, can he spend a magic to activate his ability off turn?

The way it's written, it seems that Gem of Calling cannot be used. This is a continuation of the "moving debate" we had a couple pages back that is still awaiting an answer.

To me, the wording seems to imply that only Lun's owner can activate his ability. If that's true, then Controllers and such wouldn't trigger it, because Lun's owner did not move him. So that's how I've been playing it.

Cleon

05-02-2012, 03:09 PM

Alright, this isn't a rules question but rather a Vassal one. I've had Vassal and the old SW module on my computer since I last played online SW (last summer) but I can't seem to import the newest one. I installed the newest Vassal and I downloaded both the newest Summoner Wars and Monsterpocalypse modules but I can't import them. It says it's an invalid import for both. I also can't open either with Adobe Reader 9; it just says "Adobe Reader could not open 'Summoner_Wars_(1-33)-2.vmod' because it is either not a supported file type or because the file has been damaged..."

I'm by no means a computer wiz and in fact I kinda suck when it comes to computers so maybe the answer's obvious. But does anyone know what I can do to get them imported?

PePe QuiCoSE

05-02-2012, 03:12 PM

not sure what your problem is, but you don't really need to import modules. Just go to Open Module, look it up and once you open it, it should start appearing in your available modules (so you don't need to fetch it every time you open it).
Hope that's the problem, because if not no idea.

Cleon

05-02-2012, 03:24 PM

Ryujin

06-29-2012, 01:19 PM

thenightsshadow

06-29-2012, 01:38 PM

I'm not 100% sure if this is a joke question, but the Walls need to be faction-specific.

Phoenixio

06-29-2012, 02:12 PM

The Walls are part of the event set of a Summoner. You can't change that, at least yet.

mrbistro

07-01-2012, 04:10 PM

In all seriousness, the rules force you to use your faction's own Wall cards. If you used another faction's Wall cards it could be considered card marking.

thenightsshadow

07-01-2012, 04:11 PM

Now, the question is, mrbistro, can you use Sneeks' Walls in Frick's (or however you spell it) deck and vice versa?

Barliman

07-01-2012, 04:40 PM

If I am playing a Cave Goblin deck, can I replace my Cave Goblin walls with mercenary walls if I have 3 or less mercenary units? Can I replace all three walls, or does the wall in the starting setup have to be a Cave Goblin wall?
I agree with the answers given, that you only include Mercenary Unit cards, not Walls. However, by a strict interpretation of the Deck Building rules -- the kind of strict reading we always apply to the SWs cards -- there is nothing to disallow using Mercenary Wall cards. Here are pertinent exerpts:

Mercenary cards can be included in ANY deck, up to a maximum of 6 Mercenary cards in a single deck. Note: Mercenaries will have a different color of card back than the rest of the cards in your deck. This means that players will be able to tell when you have a Mercenary card on top of your Draw Pile or in your hand.

• ... Collect that Summoner’s Unit Card and Reference Card.
• ... include in your deck each of the Event Cards listed and no more. [Note: Walls are not listed.]
• ... include in your deck each of the cards that will be used in your Summoner’s Starting Set-Up.
• Next add 2 Wall Cards to your deck.
• Finally, add enough Unit Cards to your deck so that you have a total of 18 Common Units and 3 Champion Units in your deck. All of the Units in your deck must belong to the same faction as your Summoner, with the exception of Mercenary Unit Cards. ...
So this is something that should be added to the FAQ, and flagged for re-phrasing in the next edition of the rules.

airdroppers

07-01-2012, 10:51 PM

Now, the question is, mrbistro, can you use Sneeks' Walls in Frick's (or however you spell it) deck and vice versa?

What a sneaky way to ask if the events are interchangeable between Summoners. :p

vorakesh

07-05-2012, 03:48 PM

Hello,

I have a question.

When you attack with a unit, do the rules require to declare the attacker and the attacked unit before you roll the dice?

E.g. when your unit may attack more than 1 unit, this becomes important. I didn't find anything about it in the rules/faq, maybe it's obvious. I hope this is the right thread for such questions.

vorakesh

PePe QuiCoSE

07-05-2012, 03:56 PM

uh yes, you have to declare which.

cmarie

07-05-2012, 05:39 PM

Can anyone point me to a thread in which rule questions for the 4-player version are posted? Or should I just post mine here? I have a few different questions about how the gameplay works, and they don't seem to be answered by what it says in the rule book.

cmgames

07-06-2012, 12:11 AM

vorakesh

07-06-2012, 06:49 PM

uh yes, you have to declare which.

Ah, thanks. In a FTF-Game we usually played this way.

cmarie

07-07-2012, 01:08 PM

Ask away! We wait with bated breath.

~Z

OK, I got my rule questions sorted out when I took a closer look at the cards (phrases like "choose an opponent" help), but I do still have one burning question. For my first 4-player game, we'll have two experienced players and two total beginners. So I'm thinking each team will include one beginner and one veteran, with the two beginners across from each other and ditto the vets. Easy as pie. My question is about which factions would be best for this matchup. We have the Master set and both starter sets.

I'm thinking maybe set up the beginners with the Phoenix Elves and the Mountain Vargath, while the veterans would get Guild Dwarves and something else...seems like Shadow Elves, Tundra Orcs, or Sand Goblins would be best. I don't want the more experienced people playing such complicated factions that the beginners feel like a totally different game is happening on the other side of the board.

Thoughts?

cmgames

07-07-2012, 02:14 PM

Well, my first point is that the two "sides" of the board need not (and should not) be seen as separate battles. Both opponents can (and should) be considered in planning your moves. Remember that the right side of the board "wraps" around to connect to the left side of the board, so always consider how to take advantage of that - but coordinate with your partner so that you don't end up getting in his way.

Now to your question. If you have the "Vanguard" faction, I suggest one of the experienced players use that. Tundra Orcs, Deep Dwarves, Benders, Jungle Elves, or Cloaks might be good. Do not introduce somebody to the game by using The Filth against them!

~Z

glenn3e

07-07-2012, 03:14 PM

In a 4 player game, I suggest not bringing the Filth at ALL. The "pass magic" mechanic can seriously screw with the FL's Mutation Tempo. If you're not careful, you might lose your Mutations to your ally's discard pile.

I LIKE TAU!

07-10-2012, 09:44 PM

I have a question. Where should I report problems with Vassal?

PePe QuiCoSE

07-11-2012, 08:14 AM

mostly in one of the vassal threads, like the one on how to play or stuff (search vassal, it should appear). Definitely not on the iOS forum.

Killer Lawnmower

07-22-2012, 09:17 AM

Question. Why is this thread not stickied?

And...when Krung gets Wild Swing against the Swamp Orcs, and there is a guy on a Vine Wall, do both the guy and the Vine Wall die? It says ALL adjacent cards affected.

killercactus

07-22-2012, 10:05 AM

Killer Lawnmower

07-22-2012, 10:13 AM

Yep - Krung hits everything.

That is sweet. I couldn't find an answer during the game just by looking quick in a couple threads so they did rock-paper-scissors and we ended up doing the 'hit everything' so glad that worked out.

jadarx

07-29-2012, 08:31 PM

Two quick questions about Shadow Elves:

Blade Master's 'Once per turn' restriction is per unit, correct? If I have 3 BladeMaster's, each can use the extra attack.

If I summon multiple Hunter's, can I place each next to a Shadow Elf unit or is the 'Once Per Turn' for all Hunters.

Renard

07-29-2012, 08:40 PM

Blade masters can all swift strike in the same turn, but only one hunter can shadow step. The difference is BMs say 'Once per turn, after attacking with this blade master...', while hunters say 'Once per turn, when summoning a shadow elf hunter...'

kekekela

07-29-2012, 11:37 PM

Can I use two Chant of Haste cards on the same unit in one turn? (So that I get an extra four squares of movement)

Ryujin

07-30-2012, 12:00 AM

Can I use two Chant of Haste cards on the same unit in one turn? (So that I get an extra four squares of movement)

You can use two Chants of Haste to move a unit a total of 4 spaces during your event phase. However, you must let the the first Chant resolve before playing the second Chant. This means that if you play both on Miti Mumway, he can not end his first movement on top of another card, even if a second Chant moves him 2 more spaces.

I LIKE TAU!

08-02-2012, 07:56 AM

If I were to put Saella in a Guild Dwarves deck, can I use heroic feat on her? As far as I can tell I can, but I don't think it's fair to kill vlox with 3 cards and no luck.

PePe QuiCoSE

08-02-2012, 08:08 AM

no restriction on Heroic Feat, so it's good.

I LIKE TAU!

08-02-2012, 08:18 AM

Freebuild question - If I use heroic feat on a SG bomber and roll a 6 and a miss (along with whatever the last die is), what happens?

Uncleeurope

08-02-2012, 08:28 AM

Freebuild question - If I use heroic feat on a SG bomber and roll a 6 and a miss (along with whatever the last die is), what happens?

I'm guessing that it is discarded because that is the first thing it asks. Almost like a checklist.

Q. Is there a miss?
Yes: Then discard
No: continue to question two

Q. Is there a six?
Yes: attack again and return to question one.
No: you hit and end the attack.

That is at least my understanding...

PePe QuiCoSE

08-02-2012, 08:49 AM

i guess this is the same case as the mind witch, he keeps rolling, when he finishes rolling, he gets discarded.

Uncleeurope

08-02-2012, 08:57 AM

That answer makes more sense than mine! Thanks PePe

Gojirazard

08-07-2012, 01:10 AM

Choose an Opponent. If you have fewer Units on the Battlefield that that opponent does, you may remove up to 3 cards from your Discard Pile and place them on top of your Magic Pile. You may Summon Units during this Event Phase.

From my reading and understanding, the second sentence concerning moving 3 cards from discard to magic pile would be an optional conditional, not required to pass the conditional in order to play the card. Also, this conditional would not apply to the third and final sentence concerning summoning units during event phase.

My question is, is it possible to play Summoning Surge when you have more or equal units, not gaining the 3 card bonus, but getting the benefit of third sentence--being able to summon during event phase?

Edit:

Note: some Event Cards state that a certain requirement must be met before the card can be played. You must meet all specified requirements before playing such a card.

I realize this exists, but Summoning Surge doesn't state that certain requirements must be met, just that you get an extra benefit if it is met.

TheOne

08-07-2012, 01:16 AM

Me and zard were discussing about compulsive and optional wording on Event Cards. Based on my judgment, mechanical clauses end on periods, and are guided by the words "if", "must" and "may". If an optional clause gets disregarded, does it return to your hand since you did not follow the text etc etc?

prometheuslkr

08-07-2012, 08:35 AM

From my reading and understanding, the second sentence concerning moving 3 cards from discard to magic pile would be an optional conditional, not required to pass the conditional in order to play the card. Also, this conditional would not apply to the third and final sentence concerning summoning units during event phase.

My question is, is it possible to play Summoning Surge when you have more or equal units, not gaining the 3 card bonus, but getting the benefit of third sentence--being able to summon during event phase?

Edit:

I realize this exists, but Summoning Surge doesn't state that certain requirements must be met, just that you get an extra benefit if it is met.

I would tend to say Yes, but...

So, can Summoning Surge be played with no effect when you don't have less units than your opponent? I'm assuming yes, since it says 'Choose an opponent. If you have less units than that opponent something something', but it would be nice to have confirmation.

No you can't. There's a shadowy passage in the rulebook that states that "an event can't be played if all conditions for it to be played aren't met". So since having less unit is a condition, you can't use it like that for nothing (even if a second summoning surge would be better, or to boost units, and so on).

...Phoenixio's word overrules mine.

PePe QuiCoSE

08-07-2012, 09:57 AM

Welll, that definitely needs a FAQ then. I see that the intended use for the card is to not play it unless you do have less units than your opponent, but as Goji states, it's worded with an "If" and not with a "Must" (you must have less units...). And being separated by sentences, interpreting that the last one is not related to the above 'If' is a valid way of reading it.
So my interpretation is that you can indeed use it if you don't have less units for the Summon effect (or Crossbowmen), even if I don't really like the gameplay results, unless it's ruled otherwise.

Phoenixio

08-07-2012, 04:50 PM

I can assure you all that this has been discussed a lot within the playtest team, and that catch-up events must meet all the requirements in the conditions to be played, even if some conditions and effects are on different sentences. It's a shame for Crossbowmen or for those wanting to summon without the extra magic, but it's a direct interpretation of the Event rules, p.6 of the original rulebook (might have changed place in the Master Set or new edition rulebook).

Gojirazard

08-07-2012, 10:54 PM

Then is there an issue with the rulebook? It seems to be that the line "some Event Cards state that a certain requirement must be met before the card can be played" is saying something entirely different than what it is being read as.

Here's what it says, based on my reading: "some Event Cards state that a certain requirement must be met before the card can be played."

It reads to me that the card itself must say that it cannot be played.

Maybe it was clarified in a later rulebook. Or maybe I'm just crazy and reading it wrong.

Sgt. Squirrel

08-15-2012, 06:09 PM

I have a few questions involving Filth and Deep Dwarves.

1)Can Illusionary Warrior be used for Filth Mutations on their own? I would think the answer is no, but I have thought of different variations.

2)Can Illusionary Warrior work on a Filth Mutation if there is already an enemy cultist or zealot adjacent to the champ/gem mage where the mutation would be placed?

3)And What if I used two Illusionary Warriors one after the other. The first one I use to place a cultist/zealot adjacent to my champ/mage. The second one I use to get a Filth Mutation out of my magic pile. Am I able to place that Mutation onto the Common Unit since I own it?

4)Also, if I were able to do that, could I place the Mutation on any Common Unit I own, not just a cultist or zealot?

killercactus

08-15-2012, 09:38 PM

1) No - mutes have to be summoned on top of a filth common you control.

2) No - you don't control the filth unit AND:

3) No - IW only let's you place a unit on an empty space. Note that this answer and #1 contradict each other, which makes IW never work on mutations.

4) No - see #3

cmgames

08-15-2012, 09:56 PM

More basically, the Illusionary Warrior says "Choose a common unit...". Mutations are not common units (though they can replace common units in deck builds).

~Z

killercactus

08-15-2012, 09:59 PM

More basically, the Illusionary Warrior says "Choose a common unit...". Mutations are not common units (though they can replace common units in deck builds).

~Z

Actually not true. Mutations are considered commons. Stuff like Assassinate, Battle Frenzy and Charm work on them.

Joseph

08-16-2012, 11:51 AM

Hey, if jake eldwyn uses heaven's rain, and rolls a 3, would it wound a guardsman in the range of the power?

glenn3e

08-16-2012, 12:27 PM

Yes, because its not an attack.

Joseph

08-21-2012, 02:00 PM

If anica kills an enemy skeletal archer, does spirit drain activate? It does not on the app, im not sure if this is a bug, or if is the right rules?

Corre

08-21-2012, 02:10 PM

If anica kills an enemy skeletal archer, does spirit drain activate? It does not on the app, im not sure if this is a bug, or if is the right rules?

It should activate. Spirit Drain and Magic Locked will both trigger and resolve independently since neither depends on the other. Anica destroys the Skeleton so she gets Spirit Drain, whether the skeleton goes to Anica's magic pile or not is irrelevant.

Jebuh214

08-21-2012, 02:11 PM

If anica kills an enemy skeletal archer, does spirit drain activate? It does not on the app, im not sure if this is a bug, or if is the right rules?
Yes it would. Even if you don't get the skeleton archer due to magic locked, you still get the extra magic from spirit drain.

Joseph

08-21-2012, 06:03 PM

Then there is a glitch on the app. the skeleton rolled 5 onmagic lock, and drain did not activate.

glenn3e

08-21-2012, 06:43 PM

Then there is a glitch on the app. the skeleton rolled 5 onmagic lock, and drain did not activate.

a lot of the FK units bug with other FK units. So FK vs FK matchups are bugsville. Cultist, Skele Archer, Skhull, Reaver, Zombie Warrior all react weirdly when acting against each other. So far the only one that seems surprisingly okay is when a Zombie Warrior kills a Reaver. You get a new Zombie Warrior and the Reaver spawns at somewhere else.

Emorelleum

08-27-2012, 08:22 PM

So I'm a long time reader, but first time poster...two questions

First, what constitutes a player's "back row" in a four-player match? Are the two halves of the board specific to each player, or do players share a back row? If players share back rows, then does a player using the thief's steal ability get to choose the player they steel from? Otherwise, if they are separate, then can Dagger and rogues get their backstab bonus by flanking a unit who is on their ally's side of the board (since they would technically be closer when counting spaces).

Secondly, a stress case for Silt's "At any time" ability: In the rule-book, it seems that placing wound markers on a unit and checking if the unit will be removed from the board are two separate actions. After recieving wounds from a counterattack such as retribution or riposte, can you use cunning to switch places between when a unit is mortally wounded and when it is removed from the board?

thenightsshadow

08-27-2012, 09:01 PM

1) The two halves of the board are specific to each player, but as a team they share "the back row". So something non-committal like Dagger and Rogues would get the BACKSTAB bonus if they BACKSTAB a Unit belonging to the player on the other board, but a Thief that specifies an opponent will STEAL from the player whose back row he finished the turn on.

2) No. It is a good question, and I'll forward that to Barliman (or another playtester) to be put into the FAQ, but the answer is that while the two actions are separate, they are always taken in succession.

(If I were to use M:tG Terms, the death of a creature is checked due to state-based actions and it's put in the Magic Pile as a result of those actions. There is no way to claim "damage on the stack" when using 'At any Time' abilities.)

For reference:
'At any time' means that a player may use this ability between phases on an opponent's turn (if it can be used during that turn) and it may be used at any point on your turn when game actions do not supersede it.

a) You can move a Unit one space, use Kynder's Mage Push, then move that same Unit another space to finish its movement.
b) (Assuming Free Build here) You can play Chant of Haste, moving three common Units, and after moving the second, you may use your Silts' ability to switch places before moving the third one.
c) When unfreezing a Unit you control, if you're anticipating Bragg being played this turn, you must do it in-between the Draw Phase and the Summon Phase. Otherwise, once the TO player starts summoning, it's too late to unfreeze. Likewise, if your Baldar is Frozen and you wish to unfreeze him, you can't do it in-between attacks. It has to be done before the Attack Phase starts.

Someonelse

08-27-2012, 09:59 PM

I see no reason why The thief could not steal from either opponent.
Unless its in the 4 player rules specifically. Ill have to check later.

Sgt. Squirrel

08-29-2012, 05:49 PM

If a freeze is placed on a mutation and it is returned to it's owner's hand, is the freeze removed, or what happens?

Joseph

08-29-2012, 07:02 PM

Shockma Ranyk

08-29-2012, 07:26 PM

No, since you still have the host, not to mention another mutation. This brings up another question of mine: if a jE unit is frozen, and You play CoD on it, is the unit stilll frozen, or is the unit it switched with frozen?

Freeze attaches to a UNIT, not to a space. Does that answer your question?

Sgt. Squirrel

08-29-2012, 09:28 PM

No, since you still have the host, not to mention another mutation. This brings up another question of mine: if a jE unit is frozen, and You play CoD on it, is the unit stilll frozen, or is the unit it switched with frozen?

So you are saying that the new mutation that replaces the originally frozen mutation inherits the freeze?

JYoder

08-30-2012, 03:42 AM

Interesting scenario came up in a game tonight with a friend. It was Shadow Elves vs Deep Dwarves. DD controlled a SE swordsman on the board via Illusionary Warrior. SE summoned Taliya and via her ability, put the swordsman into the DD's hand. The question is, can the DD player summon this unit like normal, even though it's an SE unit? We assumed he could, but it seemed odd enough that I wanted to double check here.

thenightsshadow

08-30-2012, 03:58 AM

This is correct. If a Unit the opposing player owns ends up in that player's hand, it may be summoned. Feels weird, but kinda cool. The same thing goes with Sairook and Kaeseeall, and the ruling there was the same: Sairook goes into the PE's hand.

JYoder

08-30-2012, 04:05 AM

Cool, but at least Sairook is a merc, so that doesn't seem as odd -- just seems odd that you can summon a completely different faction, but good to know. Thanks.

Niner

09-01-2012, 11:32 PM

New player here. I got a question about Tundle. After I use Tundle's Mediate ability, I only can attack with 1 unit only instead of the normal 3 units attack, right?

Emorelleum

09-01-2012, 11:46 PM

As I understand it, that is exactly what the card means. Realize also that the 1 attack might be using an "insead of attacking (normally)" (I don't believe any Deep Dwarve units have such an ability, but mercenaries do). Also another interesting tidbit, using Meditate does not exclude Tundle from being that one unit that gets to attack.

Ranior

09-01-2012, 11:59 PM

New player here. I got a question about Tundle. After I use Tundle's Mediate ability, I only can attack with 1 unit only instead of the normal 3 units attack, right?

Correct. Emorelleum has it exactly right.

Niner

09-02-2012, 02:19 AM

Niner

09-04-2012, 09:28 AM

This is regarding to Krusk's Sandstorm ability, it says "move each of the chosen units up to 1 space", am I able to move each unit one at a time?

killercactus

09-04-2012, 10:03 AM

This is regarding to Krusk's Sandstorm ability, it says "move each of the chosen units up to 1 space", am I able to move each unit one at a time?

The movement happens at the same time, so as the active player, Krusk's controller gets to determine in which order each unit moves. So the answer is yes - move them one at a time, which Krusk's controller deciding the order. That means stuff like Plague can trigger if you move the Vermin before the Plagued Unit.

Niner

09-04-2012, 11:29 AM

killercactus

09-04-2012, 12:04 PM

Here is another question but it's not a ruling question. As most of you already know, I just started playing SW a few days ago and I absolutely love to play Deep Dwarves and planning to expand into Piclo reinforcement pack from the master set that I already have.

Any advice on how to play DD and any good decks?

Since it apparently doesn't seem broken, I'll share my DD deck. I regret not being able to go to GenCon this year and crush people with it....

Siphon Deep

Tundle + Events and Starters

Lun
Kynder
Sprog

Gem Mage x5
Rune Mage x4
Scholar x2
Battle Mage x2

I feel like this deck can do everything. It has the tools to go on the offensive with Lun / Kynder / Gem Mages / WtFG, and also has the ability to turtle or stay on the defensive with Sprog / Rune Mages / Tundle / Lun pulling commons in. I like to use Sprog to pull an enemy wall to my side of the board and trap a Rune Mage against it, creating a little fortress that lets him Siphon forever. Battle Mages are there because I wanted a common with more than 1 life but that could still lay down a big punch - you could replace them with 2 more Scholars if you lean a bit more towards defensive play. I like to, on occasion, create a big push backed by Magic Stasis though to assassinate an unsuspecting summoner, and they work well for that.

PePe QuiCoSE

09-04-2012, 12:14 PM

Siphon DeepDon't you find anything wrong with sharing a deck that you though could be OP and stop playing because it was no fun to a new player?

A nice thing to try with the DD with the Reinforcements is to switch Sprog with Piclo OR having a deck with Deep Troll, Gren and Sprog. For the commons, always keep the gem mages, the rest switch them up as you please IMO, you can't go wrong that way. The basic idea when switching Champs in and out is to keep a balance between the ones that spend magic and the ones that generate (magic or life), you can have all champs that spend but you don't want all champs that generate.

Niner

09-04-2012, 12:20 PM

Since it apparently doesn't seem broken, I'll share my DD deck. I regret not being able to go to GenCon this year and crush people with it....

Siphon Deep

Tundle + Events and Starters

Lun
Kynder
Sprog

Gem Mage x5
Rune Mage x4
Scholar x2
Battle Mage x2

I feel like this deck can do everything. It has the tools to go on the offensive with Lun / Kynder / Gem Mages / WtFG, and also has the ability to turtle or stay on the defensive with Sprog / Rune Mages / Tundle / Lun pulling commons in. I like to use Sprog to pull an enemy wall to my side of the board and trap a Rune Mage against it, creating a little fortress that lets him Siphon forever. Battle Mages are there because I wanted a common with more than 1 life but that could still lay down a big punch - you could replace them with 2 more Scholars if you lean a bit more towards defensive play. I like to, on occasion, create a big push backed by Magic Stasis though to assassinate an unsuspecting summoner, and they work well for that.

Thanks for the decklist. Btw, what do you think about Gren? I see some deck uses it instead of Sprog. Your thoughts?

killercactus

09-04-2012, 02:25 PM

Don't you find anything wrong with sharing a deck that you though could be OP and stop playing because it was no fun to a new player?

Well, my thought is that if it didn't dominate at Gen Con, then it must not be an issue. Besides, there's a lot of stuff that I don't find fun that other people do, like fishing, badminton, Oldin, etc.

JYoder

09-04-2012, 04:38 PM

Besides, there's a lot of stuff that I don't find fun that other people do, like fishing, badminton, Oldin, etc.

Awesome Oldin reference -- made me laugh out loud. :)

Niner

09-05-2012, 02:15 AM

Does Swamp Orcs affected by Vine Walls effects as well while getting out from a Vine Wall?

thenightsshadow

09-05-2012, 02:56 AM

Niner

09-05-2012, 03:14 AM

What specifically are you referencing?

1) Hunters or anyone under the influence of Ambush can use Vinemancer Ambush when leaving a Vine Wall.
2) Savagers, Blerg, and Swamp Beasts have to roll to move off a Vine Wall as well.

Let me get this straight, in general all Swamp Orcs need to roll to move off a Vine Wall unless they have an ability which requires them to move off a Vine Wall freely. Am i right?

thenightsshadow

09-05-2012, 03:58 AM

Correct. Swamp Orcs are not immune to Vine Walls, and when they find their abilities gone from them, like Luka or Chant of Negation, they find they can't move through Vine Walls anymore.

Savagers, Swamp Beasts, Blerg, and Glurp are not able to move through Vine Walls on their own, and need outside help (see Ambush).

Niner

09-05-2012, 04:16 AM

Niner

09-06-2012, 07:16 AM

Another question, if I win the dice roll, do I have the options either to go 1st or let my opponent goes 1st?, I can't seem to find that in the rule book unless it's men made rule.

prometheuslkr

09-06-2012, 07:35 AM

Another question, if I win the dice roll, do I have the options either to go 1st or let my opponent goes 1st?, I can't seem to find that in the rule book unless it's men made rule.

I don't believe that's in the rulebook but that seems to be the way everyone does it.

tghops

09-06-2012, 07:46 AM

It actually is in the rulebook under game set up.
"7. Each player rolls a die. The player with the highest roll chooses who will take the first turn."

Niner

09-06-2012, 07:48 AM

It actually is in the rulebook under game set up.
"7. Each player rolls a die. The player with the highest roll chooses who will take the first turn."

Oh .. i see it now. Thanks guys.

arrab

09-08-2012, 04:24 AM

Hello

I have a question about Shadow Elves.
Does card "Stalking Advance. You may move all Shadow Elf Units that you control up to 1 space each." allow me to move all my units during Play Event phase, and then move 3 in my Move phase or instead of moving 3 units for 2 spaces i can move all but for 1 during Move phase ?

I LIKE TAU!

09-08-2012, 10:27 AM

Hello

...allow me to move all my units during Play Event phase, and then move 3 in my Move phase...

This is correct.

Sgt. Squirrel

09-08-2012, 06:05 PM

Can a berserker attack sera if there is a gk next to the berserker?

Here are their abilities

berserker: When this berserker attacks, it may attack all enemy units that are adjacent to it. Resolve each attack separately.

gk: If an enemy unit is adjacent to one or more guardian knights that you control, when that unit attacks, a guardian knight must be a target in that attack.

What threw me off was the resolve each attack separately. it seems to me like that makes it a separate attack each time the berserker attacks the different units adjacent to him, in which case it would probably have to attack the gk. but on the other hand, then it would attack the gk multiple times, and that doesn't make much sense.

esper88

09-08-2012, 06:28 PM

Q: What happens if a Berserker or Hydrake is adjacent to many units, some of which are Guardian Knights?
A: Assault trumps Protector. All adjacent enemy Units can be attacked, even if a Unit with Protector is one of them.

From the Book of GK.

arrab

09-09-2012, 08:04 AM

Do I get bonus from Scholar ( http://www.plaidhatgames.com/sum_forums/showthread.php?817-The-Book-of-Scholars ) every time when I attack enemy unit adjecent to scholar:
1) when there is more than one attack on the same enemy unit;
2) when I attack 2 different units next to one scholar.

killercactus

09-09-2012, 08:13 AM

Sgt. Squirrel

09-09-2012, 08:13 AM

1) Yes
2) Yes

As long as there is a scholar adjacent to the card being attacked, add 1 attack die no matter how many times you attack a card, or how many different cards you attack.

prometheuslkr

09-09-2012, 08:48 AM

Although it's important to remember the bonus from insight is always just 1 die per attack, even if there is more than one scholar adjacent to the target.

MtS

09-09-2012, 02:36 PM

Sgt. Squirrel

09-09-2012, 02:54 PM

1) Tacullu only pays the cost of the mutation, b) and both the mutation and the common are discarded

2) If the unit only has one life, you may only remove one wound marker from the wall. Notice it says one at a time- that means that you remove one to the unit, so it dies, so you no longer have a unit that you can transfer wounds to

3) Torodin can move onto that middle space after trampling all three commons. you add the wounds [I]when[I] he tramples the units

MtS

09-09-2012, 03:21 PM

Thanks,

I tend to agree with all the answers expect for number 2. I thought the "One at a time" part refered to the walls, to ensure you won't transfer the Wounds from the same Wall more than once. I think you may be correct that you cannot remove more Wounds than the chosen unit could receive (that's actually how we've decided to play it even though I was against it :)), but I don't think the reasoning is correct.

EDIT: Well I don't know. You're probably right. I just cannot decide how to read the Fury of Godshome card properly (probably the only card I have a real problem with). If it is like you say, would you be able to distribute up to 3 Wounds from a single Wall to the multiple Units?

Sgt. Squirrel

09-09-2012, 03:40 PM

Here's the event:
Fury of Godshome:
One at a time, remove up to 3 wounds from each Wall on the Battlefield and add them to a Common or Champion Unit that is adjacent to that Wall.

To me, it seems pretty clear that one at a time is referring to the wounds, since it already includes "from each wall on the battlefield" which specifies the walls. Plus, the placement of one at a time also implies to me that it refers to the wounds. Also, it says add them to A common or champion unit adjacent to that wall, so that implies that only one unit is affected per wall.

MtS

09-09-2012, 03:55 PM

I completely agree about one Unit from one Wall (what a relief, that would certainly be one overpowered event if not)

I had to do a bit of googling to find from where I had the impression that it refers to the walls and found this thread on boardgamegeek, where thenightsshadow explains it is refering to the walls:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/801857/fury-of-godshome-clarification

Sgt. Squirrel

09-09-2012, 04:01 PM

Ok, I read the thread, and thanks for clearing that up.

But you can still only move a number of wound markers from a wall onto a unit equal to that unit's remaining health points.

MtS

09-09-2012, 04:04 PM

Ok, thanks a lot.

prometheuslkr

09-09-2012, 05:14 PM

Few questions:

1a. When is Tacullu counter-summoning a mutation, does he has to pay only the summoning cost of the mutation or the common underneath as well?
1b. Both the mutation and the mutated common are discarded when counter-summoned, right?

2. When using Rallul's event Fury of Godshome, can you choose to remove 3 Wound Markers from a Wall and place them on an adjacent Common even though it has just 1-life remaining.

3. Torodin's advanced was played. Imagine this situation:
T C C C
T - Torodin
C - 1-life Common
Can you end Torodins movement on the space with a common in the middle? In other words - Does each common receives the Wound Marker when Torodin moves a space or does all the commons receives a Wound each after Torodin finishes his move?

Well... I know Torodin can't just move 1 space onto a 1-life unit, trample it to death, and end his move on that space. But I'm really not sure about the situation you present here, since Torodin would have already moved "over" the unit in question. However, in Torodin's FAQ it says that with Torodin's Advance he still can't trample a unit more than once to inflict multiple wounds, which would lead me to believe that Trample wounds are inflicted after he finishes his, move, so no, I don't think you would be able to end your move on a space that had a common on it.

MtS

09-10-2012, 10:21 AM

Well... I know Torodin can't just move 1 space onto a 1-life unit, trample it to death, and end his move on that space. But I'm really not sure about the situation you present here, since Torodin would have already moved "over" the unit in question. However, in Torodin's FAQ it says that with Torodin's Advance he still can't trample a unit more than once to inflict multiple wounds, which would lead me to believe that Trample wounds are inflicted after he finishes his, move, so no, I don't think you would be able to end your move on a space that had a common on it.

In play it seemed rather counter-intuitive, because I usually remove the trampled-to-death commons immediately when Torodin leaves the space, but great catch in the FAQ. It certainly seems to imply that the Wounds should be added after the Torodin's move ends.

arrab

09-10-2012, 06:12 PM

I have a question about Savager http://www.plaidhatgames.com/sum_forums/showthread.php?864-The-Book-of-Savagers - when his skill activates ? When enemy unit moves from space not adjacent to space adjacent to orc ? When enemy is moving away from savager ? Both (so when enemy is just passing by savager, 2 rolls occurs ) ?

Shockma Ranyk

09-10-2012, 06:17 PM

thenightsshadow

09-10-2012, 09:11 PM

Ok, I read the thread, and thanks for clearing that up.

But you can still only move a number of wound markers from a wall onto a unit equal to that unit's remaining health points.

That is incorrect. You can place 3 Wound Markers from a Wall on a Unit that has 1 Life left. The damage resolution happens after each transfer, but the wounds are not transferred 1 at a time, rather, as a group. So while you cannot move 3 Wound Markers onto a Stone Golem to move it onto another Unit, you can "heal" your Wall 3 Wounds by placing those 3 Wounds on an adjacent Stone Golem even if that Stone Golem already has 2 Wounds on it.

MtS

09-10-2012, 09:35 PM

That is incorrect. You can place 3 Wound Markers from a Wall on a Unit that has 1 Life left. The damage resolution happens after each transfer, but the wounds are not transferred 1 at a time, rather, as a group. So while you cannot move 3 Wound Markers onto a Stone Golem to move it onto another Unit, you can "heal" your Wall 3 Wounds by placing those 3 Wounds on an adjacent Stone Golem even if that Stone Golem already has 2 Wounds on it.

Seems I should've stuck with my interpretation and heal my walls :). Thanks for the ruling.

Sgt. Squirrel

09-11-2012, 06:29 AM

Man, wrong again

Oh, well, just goes to show I should leave question answering to those who actually know what they're talking about:)

casualtoast

09-14-2012, 09:04 PM

So...despite feeling like we already know the answer, my wife and I would still love some clarification on whether CG goblin rush event can be used on units that are being held (are 'engaged') by a GD defender? The obvious answer seems like no, they can't, but hoping to have a firm ruling.

thenightsshadow

09-14-2012, 09:33 PM

Your assumption is correct, Goblin Rush cannot move Units next to a Defender.

Caleb Wolfbrand

09-14-2012, 10:18 PM

Yo, first post, hello everyone. Been reading for a while.

My question involves team games, 2v2's to be specific. If a Rusher begins his movement phase on your allies side of the field, he does NOT get his ability activated, correct? My friend was trying to argue that because it wasn't an enemy side, it would work. But I argued that it's not Sunderved's side. Same reason we can't put our walls on each other's side. Which... Is also true, right?

Thank you in advance.

Phoenixio

09-14-2012, 10:24 PM

You can actually put Walls on your allied side if I remember correctly. So in that regard I'd assume you can trigger a Rusher's movement as well. It's still physically Sunderved's side too.

But as far as team game goes, you might as well house-rule it the way you want. It's not a very... rigorous part of the rules, so to speak.

Joseph

09-15-2012, 04:48 PM

Yes, this actually a very good thing to do when you and your ally turtle. instant ally help can sometimes mean the differnce between victory and defeat. the beatiful thing is, you only have 3 walls, so you aren't gonna have to worry about 6 summoning points near you, usually. i do remmeber a game where my grandpa was DD, and his ally, my dad, was VG. He second tuen summoned sprog, and reformed the wall over to my dad's side. Than, he placed both walls on my dad's side (we house ruled this into being allowed, in case you think this is cheap), creating the ultimate turtle fortress. We won, barely, only because his jake rolled 3 misses at a REALLY inopportune time. (on a weak miti)

jwalker

09-20-2012, 10:13 AM

a pretty tricky point came up last night when we proxied the new conjurer (SO). The SO player had also some Apprentice mages and the ability reads:
"Once per turn, when this Appprentice mage attacks ..." while the Conjurer reads: "At the beginning of your attack phase you may destroy one vine wall ..."

So can the Conjurer actually use his ability more than once per turn to destroy more than one vw and gain range + attack or even multiple +AV? I guess it's this timing thing that prevents more than once to use an ability that starts at a specific phase ? If not than unfortunately I see no limitation to destroy 5 vw to get ridiculous AV boosts.

glenn3e

09-20-2012, 10:56 AM

killercactus

09-20-2012, 11:56 AM

Well it does say "you may destroy ONE". Not two, not three but one. So yeah, following the text literally it means you can only do it once.

glenn is correct - it's limited to "one" by the ability. The difference between the App Mage and the Conjurer is just the point in the turn in which they can activate the ability. Conjurer has to do it before anyone attacks (like Gem Mages) - that can have implications in the choices you make when attacking. App Mages (and Battle Mages for DD) can wait until it's their turn to see what happens before they decide whether or not to use Magic Shot.

Joseph

09-21-2012, 07:25 AM

What's up with all the adds? First, a few days ago i saw one for hoodies, now football? What's happening?

jwalker

09-21-2012, 10:16 AM

Well it does say "you may destroy ONE". Not two, not three but one. So yeah, following the text literally it means you can only do it once.

I totally agree that this is the way this ability should work - however from just the text alone this is not enough to prevent using it multiple times - unless "at the beginning of .... ability can only be used once. you are correct it says ONE, but it does not state anywhere in the text (like it does for the apprentice mage) that you cannot use the ability again.

Don't get me wrong I'm all for the only one wall / conjurer.

thenightsshadow

09-21-2012, 10:22 AM

jwalker

09-21-2012, 01:00 PM

Think about it like this:

"At the beginning of the Attack Phase,..." you can only activate it once, since once you've activated it once and had it resolve, by the time you activate it again it's no longer the beginning of the phase.

yeah it's this in between phases timing thing - I just checked all the other unit ability and one can nicely see that ALL before or after phases ability do not have the once per turn part (because it's not necessary) while ALL in between a phase ability have the "once per turn" phrase.

problem solved thanks guys

I LIKE TAU!

09-22-2012, 06:57 AM

How do you report someone on here?

thenightsshadow

09-22-2012, 07:26 AM

See that triangle caution sign on the bottom-left on your post? That's how you report a post. As for the "person"...no idea.

Ranior

09-22-2012, 07:27 AM

Bottom left of each post has a nice triangle. Click on that.

I LIKE TAU!

09-22-2012, 08:36 AM

ok, thanks.

Shurma

10-04-2012, 08:06 AM

I am sorry if my quetsion is too stupid, but it is bothering me. In 3-4 player game, as i can see in the rules i can attack and move on the other side of the map like it is rounded. Does it include ranged attacks? Basically if I am on the edge of left side of the map can i shoot someone 3 spaces from the right side of the map ?

Uncleeurope

10-04-2012, 09:59 AM

Yes you may! One side is a direct portal to the other side. Almost like Pac-Man...

Shurma

10-04-2012, 10:06 AM

Thank you very much for the fast answer

Uncleeurope

10-04-2012, 10:11 AM

Gladly! Happy to helpify!

arrab

10-04-2012, 05:44 PM

I have a question about 4 player game and mind control. Can I mind control enemy units on my teammates side of the Battlefield ?

Joseph

10-04-2012, 06:01 PM

Eh.....this is a tricky question. Its really up to you. Most house rule yes. This has come up with Sunderved's command power.....just house rule it how you want it. I am pretty sure the answer is yes you can.

Caleb Wolfbrand

10-04-2012, 09:48 PM

The more I think about those kind of questions, the more I think you (the players) should just set one rule in motion when playing teams - you either share "sides" or don't. That means you can put walls on their side, Rushers get movement boost on your allies side, Mind Control works, etc. But if you choose the other way, where player 1's side of the field "belongs" to him exclusively, and player 2's is his, then that stuff does not work. The rule book I think DOES actually say your teams side counts as yours, cause you can put walls down, etc. Would check the booklet again but it's at someone's house.

Joseph

10-05-2012, 06:26 AM

You CAN put walls down on allies sides. its in the rule book. Just doesn't define if "on your side" abilities work.

arrab

10-07-2012, 07:26 AM

I think (and we played this way last time) the term "your teams side" isn't equal to "your side". I think that rule about putting your walls on your ally battlefield means that you shouldn't consider his side as your. Team play only allow you to put walls and rulebook doesn't mention about anything else.

prometheuslkr

10-07-2012, 03:36 PM

Does anybody have a link to where Truth said that all "instead of attacking normally" abilities were being errata'd to "instead of attacking"? And why hasn't the FAQ been updated to address this?

darkbladecb

10-07-2012, 11:39 PM

Does anybody have a link to where Truth said that all "instead of attacking normally" abilities were being errata'd to "instead of attacking"? And why hasn't the FAQ been updated to address this?

Is the fact that the likes of Elien have been errata'd is not enough? The FAQ is certainly due for a massive overhaul. I'll ask Colby about it.

prometheuslkr

10-08-2012, 10:51 AM

Is the fact that the likes of Elien have been errata'd is not enough? The FAQ is certainly due for a massive overhaul. I'll ask Colby about it.

I was just trying to find the specific quote from truth because in the "factions" section and on vassal the old cards are still up.

NinjaKnight

10-08-2012, 10:54 AM

So... I've been getting a little bit ansi waiting for preorders to come in and so I was reading the card spoilers, trying to figure out what to expect. it was than that I met Luka (http://www.plaidhatgames.com/games/summoner-wars/mountain-vargath). So anyways, here's the question(s):

1. If a filth common is within 3 spaces of Luka at the start of it's turn, but then mutates into something else, is it considered a "new unit" and therefore unaffected by disruption field? Or is it classified as the same unit, only mutated? which would render it incapable of gaining an ability that turn?

2.Under similar circumstances, would Jungle Elves' Chant of Negation counter Luka's Disruption Field? How does a situation like this resolve. Because in theory, the JE units have been told that they cannot gain abilities this turn, though the ability that was suppressing their abilities has since been rendered null and void... What happens there?

joepinion

10-08-2012, 10:59 AM

1. Mutated Units are considered new units so this also negates Kogar, Deceivers, etc, as well as Luka.
2. Well, CoN happens all the way back in the middle of the JE player's turn. So Luka doesn't have an ability at the beginning of her turn and therefore cannot negate any JE units.

NinjaKnight

10-08-2012, 11:05 AM

2. Well, CoN happens all the way back in the middle of the JE player's turn. So Luka doesn't have an ability at the beginning of her turn and therefore cannot negate any JE units.
Yes, that is assuming the JE player played CoN last turn. Would a negated ability come back to a JE unit if CoN was played during that turn's event phase?

joepinion

10-08-2012, 11:14 AM

Yes, that is assuming the JE player played CoN last turn. Would a negated ability come back to a JE unit if CoN was played during that turn's event phase?

Ahh, sorry, good question. The language for Luka is matched with the Deceivers' wording, so I'd say it works the same way, which is, even though you've negated Luka's ability during the event phase, her ability kicked in and had its (lasting) effect at the beginning of the turn, so the JE units still don't have abilities even after the CoN is played. (Similarly, even if you play CoN vs the Benders, your stunned units remain stunned.)

superkrm

10-08-2012, 11:29 AM

Rath, his ability seems to grant unlimited movement towards a wounded common not an exchange or placement since it says "instead of moving normally".

If the unlimited movement assumption is true, GD defenders could block Rath from wounded commons, right?

NinjaKnight

10-08-2012, 11:49 AM

Oh, I've got this one.

to answer your question about Rath Superkrm, the answer would be no. You see, Wrath doesn't "move" to the wounded commons, he is "placed" beside them. GD Defenders block movement not placement.

darkbladecb

10-08-2012, 03:46 PM

Ahh, sorry, good question. The language for Luka is matched with the Deceivers' wording, so I'd say it works the same way, which is, even though you've negated Luka's ability during the event phase, her ability kicked in and had its (lasting) effect at the beginning of the turn, so the JE units still don't have abilities even after the CoN is played. (Similarly, even if you play CoN vs the Benders, your stunned units remain stunned.)

This is correct.

thenightsshadow

10-08-2012, 04:42 PM

Except the current ruling for Deceivers at the moment is that Chant of Negation does negate Stun.

Edit:
At least, AFAIK.

darkbladecb

10-08-2012, 08:36 PM

Except the current ruling for Deceivers at the moment is that Chant of Negation does negate Stun.

Edit:
At least, AFAIK.

The Stun has already happened the turn you play CoN. So your Unit is already stunned. You get the benefit of CoN against Luka and Deceivers the NEXT turn as their abilities don't get to trigger during their turn.

I LIKE TAU!

10-16-2012, 10:25 PM

Ok, so strange and unusual situation coming up. Let's say the MU is DD vs CL. The DD deck summons sprog and takes one of his walls to the DD back row. He covers 2 out of the 3 sides, leaving one on the back row open, with RMs and tries to be mean. A theif comes and raids. At the end of the turn, it steals and goes to the wall on the back row. Why wouldn't he be able to steal again? And again? etc.

tortugatron

10-17-2012, 12:49 AM

I think since the Thief Steals at the end of your turn, it can only steal once per turn. My understanding is that the Steal action signifies the end of the turn and therefore you don't activate the Thief's ability again. I could be wrong. Very strange situation.

If you could infinite Steal by this situation, I see no reason that by the same reasoning Sneeks couldn't infinite Sly.

thenightsshadow

10-17-2012, 03:32 AM

The Stun has already happened the turn you play CoN. So your Unit is already stunned. You get the benefit of CoN against Luka and Deceivers the NEXT turn as their abilities don't get to trigger during their turn.

That's what I meant. I got confused and thought you were talking about that.

PePe QuiCoSE

10-17-2012, 08:22 AM

I think since the Thief Steals at the end of your turn, it can only steal once per turn.Yeah, that. But take into account the exception that if there's a Rune Mage in play by the opponent he can indeed steal to infinity.

:)

killercactus

10-17-2012, 11:39 AM

Steal is only gonna work once, just like Gem Magic is only gonna work once. Gem Mages can't just keep payingagicnto bounce around everywhere.

I LIKE TAU!

10-18-2012, 09:16 PM

Thanks all. I was hopeful, but I suppose it doesn't make much sense. Poor rallul in a 4 player game. Although it might be clearer (at least to me) if there was a "once per turn" phrase in there. Although I like Pepe's ruling best. A deck bringing a wall there is likely to be using RMs and so might as well punish them. However, in a 4 player game against DD and MR, I feel bad for MR with your ruling. May need to revise it. :)

vivafringe

10-30-2012, 05:59 PM

Let's say I have an Edible Mutant with 5 wounds on it. Can I summon a different mutation onto it to ensure I get the 2 magic for myself?

Sgt. Squirrel

10-30-2012, 06:01 PM

Yes- say you summon a winged mutant onto it- all five wounds are transferred onto the winged mutant, and since it only has three lives, it is killed, and it and the common go to your magic pile.

XPD

11-01-2012, 11:54 PM

I had a situation were Vlox had cloak of shadows on but was with in two spaces of Gror's Hammer Quake if Vlox wasn't the target of the attack does Vlox still take the damage for non-6 hits? Only question that Cloak of Shadows says that 'when an opponent rolls to attack the chosen unit' while the original attack is targeting a different unit.

thenightsshadow

11-02-2012, 12:03 AM

When a Unit is affected by an attack, it is counted as if that Unit is being attacked as well. So Cloak of Shadows still works.

XPD

11-02-2012, 12:15 AM

Thanks, I didn't want to assume anything. I always have a hard time determining how some of that stuff interacts.

XPD

11-05-2012, 05:02 PM

Wait... I just looked at the FAQ and it disagrees that it was attacked

1.0.0.31: Is being affected by an attack the same thing as being attacked?
No. Being affected by an attack is being affected by an attack, which is distinct from being attacked.

thenightsshadow

11-05-2012, 05:21 PM

I'll ask just to make sure. But as far as I can tell, just because they're distinct and have different in-game meanings doesn't mean they are separate.

Smashers still get auto-hit when they're not the one attacked by Gror, so I don't see why Cloak of Shadows wouldn't work on a Unit not adjacent to Gror.

Sneeks7177

11-07-2012, 11:21 AM

How can I become a senior member here on the forums?

killercactus

11-07-2012, 11:31 AM

How can I become a senior member here on the forums?

Post more.

Sneeks7177

11-07-2012, 12:49 PM

Hahaha! Ok I assumed so. How long did it take you?

killercactus

11-07-2012, 12:58 PM

Hahaha! Ok I assumed so. How long did it take you?

I'm not sure what the post count is to bump it up... at this point, I'm waiting for someone to give me a witty title.

thenobleknave

11-07-2012, 01:10 PM

I'm not sure what the post count is to bump it up... at this point, I'm waiting for someone to give me a witty title.

If I could assign titles, you'd likely get "Wants a Witty Title". But I can't, so you won't. Personally, I want a radsauce title.

thenightsshadow

11-07-2012, 02:13 PM

I think the amount is either 50 or 100. I forget what the default is in this kind of forum, but it's one of those two.

Edit:
Checked. Senior Member is at 100. Member starts at...I'll have to check.

brock

11-07-2012, 02:24 PM

I think "Member" is at 30?

Sneeks7177

11-07-2012, 02:53 PM

Ok. Thanks for your help! I'll probably ask something later. What do you mean by a "Witty tile" anyhow? You can't change your username can you?

joepinion

11-07-2012, 02:57 PM

Hey man, the big thing is, don't worry about it. No one here is going to look down on you or discount your opinions because you have less posts. The best way to be a part of the community and gain credibility is just to contribute quality content.

Sneeks7177

11-07-2012, 03:01 PM

Thank you very much! I will definantly keep this in mind. Thanks for making me feel welcome!

Sneeks7177

11-07-2012, 03:19 PM

I just realized, I get Webmaster because I'm within 3 posts!

I LIKE TAU!

11-07-2012, 04:01 PM

Everyone so far is right. The titles go where the junior or senior member thing is. Look at TheNightShadow's, he knows.

Sneeks7177

11-07-2012, 05:55 PM

Hahaha that's awesome! I didn't notice that before.

ZeeJr

11-14-2012, 07:53 PM

If I prevent a wound with Thorkur, does that keep a Scrapper from blindsiding him?

I see that this has been answered on BoardGame Geek and elsewhere, but those links are broken or something so I cant get to the answer.

Thanks.

tortugatron

11-14-2012, 08:16 PM

Since no wounds were inflicted, I would say blindside doesn't take effect.

thenightsshadow

11-14-2012, 08:25 PM

Correct, Blindside requires a Wound Marker to be dealt to use.

ZeeJr

11-14-2012, 10:58 PM

Correct, Blindside requires a Wound Marker to be dealt to use.

Thats what I thought. Thanks for confirming. And thanks tortuga.

JYoder

12-06-2012, 05:52 PM

Tonight I finally get to play with the 2 latest reinforcement packs for the first time. Yes!

Anyway, when customizing the Filth, how does swapping in Champs work? The base deck just has the Abomination. So if I want 2 champs in my deck, I assume I have to swap out 1 mutation... or is the Filth limited to 1 champ?

If not, I assume the most mutations I can swap out for champs is 2, in order to adhere to the 3 champ limit. (But those mutations are gold, Jerry, gold!) Likewise, can I swap out the Abomination for an additional mutation?

tortugatron

12-06-2012, 05:54 PM

Mutations can take the place of champs or commons. Filth have a 3/18 split just like every other faction.

JYoder

12-06-2012, 06:02 PM

So I could remove 3 cultists and the Abomination and add 4 new mutations? Hmm. Did not know that. Very interesting.

I LIKE TAU!

12-06-2012, 09:05 PM

I have a deck with all 13 mutations.

mogPlaidHat

12-11-2012, 09:42 AM

As the rulebook states, "You cannot attack a card that is blocked by 1 or more cards", and gives an example of a card being block by an enemy wall. However, it is not clear to me how a card "blocks" another. Is it simply by staying between the atacker and the card the atacker wants to attack? For example, I was thinking I could attack from behind my own wall with a ranged unit, or does it block my attack as an enemy wall would?Thank you.

Sneeks7177

12-11-2012, 10:50 AM

Yes, you have it right. You MAY NOT attack a card if another card (Friendly or foe) is in between the card you wish to attack and you. You MAY NOT attack through walls. Range units MAY attack from up to three clear spaces away (Meaning the card your attacking is on the third square.)

Sneeks7177

Adam

12-12-2012, 06:35 AM

In team play, the rules say I can build magic into my team mate's magic pile. Does the term "build" refer specifically to the build magic phase, or is any time I gain magic (destroying a unit, magic drain, etc) considered building magic?

JYoder

12-12-2012, 10:17 AM

Adam... it's during the build magic phase.

New Question: I want to make sure we did this right, but a storm mage can still use it's ability after it moves up against the Horror mutant, right? (The SM card says, "Instead of attacking...")

tortugatron

12-12-2012, 11:16 AM

I would say that the storm mage can use its ability, but I'm not 100 percent about it. Instead of attacking still counts as one of your attacks that turn...

Adam

12-12-2012, 11:56 AM

Thanks.

I don't think Storm Mage can do something in place of an attack when it cannot attack. Not 100% sure.

Smitty

12-12-2012, 12:35 PM

I'll second this question about the Storm Mage. A similar discussion was had regarding Deceivers and whether stunned units could use "instead of attacking" abilities. The ruling at first seemed to be that they could, but then PePe pointed out a post on BGG where Jexik said that ruling was never made (here (http://www.plaidhatgames.com/sum_forums/showthread.php?750-The-Book-of-Deceivers&p=42751#post42751)). The question was also not addressed in the FAQ.

So, the general question is: can units who are prevented from attacking still use "instead of attacking" abilities? The main Yes argument seems to be that it's not an attack, the main No argument is a unit needs to be able to attack to then do something instead of attacking.

Hitman

12-12-2012, 01:22 PM

I would think this rule from the FAQ would enforce the NO argument.

"1.0.0.21: When a Special Ability says “instead of attacking” and it is used, does that count towards the limit of 3 Unit attacks per player turn?
Yes. During your Attack Phase, you choose 3 Units to attack with. They can choose to use their attack as normal or to use an “instead of attacking” ability if they have one."

If you have to choose the unit to attack, in order to use its "instead of attacking" ability, then anything that prevents that card crom attacking would prevent you using that ability.

tortugatron

12-12-2012, 01:30 PM

Hitman

12-12-2012, 01:49 PM

In the new FAQ for the horror mutant, if a unit has an instead of moving ability, it can still attack if it is adjacent. I would assume that this then means that since it doesn't count as a movement an instead if attack wouldn't count as an attack. That is my official using to keep rule uniformity.

The Horror mutants ability triggers on ending your normal move next to the mutant, but you still would have chosen your moving unit to move before using its "instead of moving ability" So if something prevented your unit from moving you could not use you "instead of moving" ability. Just likr you cant use your "instead of attacking" if you cant attack.

If it is ruled that you can use an "instead of attacking" ability to attack with a unit that is stunned, does that mean you can use an "instead of moving" ability to move a stunned unit?

killercactus

12-12-2012, 02:07 PM

The only thing close thy I can find is Miner vs. Defender. Miners are, per the FAQ, allowed to Tunnel away from Defenders, so that supports the Yes argument. However, miners have very strange wording in their power, so it's tough to compare them to anything.

I think I've played before that Rune Mages can Siphon when a Defender is adjacent, which would also support Yes, though I don't have a ruling on that.

Plus, I don't think that "attacking" is the same thing as "choosing a unit to attack with". It's been established that using an "instead of" ability counts as one of your three activations (FAQ), that you can choose either an attack or an "instead of" for that activation (FAQ), and that "instead of" abilities are not attacks (see Elien vs FK Cultist). To me, all these things are enough to assume a Storm Mage or Firebeast can blow up the Horror Mutant.

Hitman

12-12-2012, 03:01 PM

killercactus

12-12-2012, 03:04 PM

So are "instead of moving" abilitys not technically moves? How does a Lioneer Rider ability work into that. Can a Lioneer rider away from a Deceiver? Or becasue the rider ability involves the Lioneer 'moving' it counts as a moving? If that is the case, then what is the defeinition of attacking?

My understanding is that "Instead of moving normally" is still moving, but "instead of moving" or "placing" is not moving. So Rider is still moving, but Siphon isn't. Tunnel isn't moving because it results in "placing", even though it says "instead of moving normally". Like I said - that one is weird.

Hitman

12-12-2012, 03:16 PM

So then cards that have "instead of attacking normally" still counts as attacks? Prince Elien says "instead of attacking normally" but in your example you said that it does not count as an attack.

Smitty

12-12-2012, 03:28 PM

Tunnel makes sense if you keep in mind the ability's intention: the Miner can make an uninterrupted move to adjacent another Miner, but it counts as one of your three movements, so that Miner can't also move normally.

Using the same logic (determine the intention, then work backwards), I would assume that "instead of attacking" abilities worked on Horror Mutant (and Deceivers) since "instead of attacking" abilities are intended to work when/where attacking is prevented. However, I am hardly an expert.

thenightsshadow

12-12-2012, 03:39 PM

So then cards that have "instead of attacking normally" still counts as attacks? Prince Elien says "instead of attacking normally" but in your example you said that it does not count as an attack.

The official wording of Prince Elien now has the word normally dropped from his card. Check his FAQ and the Fire Drake's FAQ for the official wording.

Hitman

12-12-2012, 04:24 PM

The official wording of Prince Elien now has the word normally dropped from his card. Check his FAQ and the Fire Drake's FAQ for the official wording.

I was not aware of that change, do the new starters have the the revised wording?

Plus, I don't think that "attacking" is the same thing as "choosing a unit to attack with". It's been established that using an "instead of" ability counts as one of your three activations (FAQ), that you can choose either an attack or an "instead of" for that activation (FAQ), and that "instead of" abilities are not attacks (see Elien vs FK Cultist). To me, all these things are enough to assume a Storm Mage or Firebeast can blow up the Horror Mutant.

I can see how it is worked out now but I dont like it. I would like more clarification on how the attack phase works. Do you pick the unit to attack with and then choose to use its ability? Or do you say I am going to spend 1 of my 3 attack phase activations to use this ability?

In the rules it sates that unit may choose to use its ability or do a normal attack. Which to me implies that it would have to be able to attack in order to choose its ability.

But then does the wording of Horror Mutantans "unit may not attack" mean that the unit cannot be declared as one of your three attack phase activations or just cant make a normal attack?

All of a sudden the Rules of Summoner Wars does not seem so simple :P

thenightsshadow

12-12-2012, 04:36 PM

JYoder

12-12-2012, 05:49 PM

killercactus, you also have to keep in mind the ruling at the moment is that Fire Beasts cannot kill Deceivers when Stunned. This is an area that'll need clarification in the FAQ.

I was kind of tracking until you said that. Now I'm confused.

If the ruling is Fire Beasts cannot kill Deceivers when stunned, then "instead of attacking" means a unit still needs to be able to attack. That would seem to answer my initial question, therefore, a Storm Mage could NOT use its ability on Horror.

But if that's the case with Fire Beasts, then by extension, Deceivers should prevent the Rune Mage Siphon. Then by extension of that, Defenders should be able to prevent Siphon... however, I thought Defenders could NOT prevent Siphon.

So what am I missing?

Hitman

12-12-2012, 06:04 PM

I was kind of tracking until you said that. Now I'm confused.

If the ruling is Fire Beasts cannot kill Deceivers when stunned, then "instead of attacking" means a unit still needs to be able to attack. That would seem to answer my initial question, therefore, a Storm Mage could NOT use its ability on Horror.

But if that's the case with Fire Beasts, then by extension, Deceivers should prevent the Rune Mage Siphon. Then by extension of that, Defenders should be able to prevent Siphon... however, I thought Defenders could NOT prevent Siphon.

So what am I missing?

This is the way I interpet the ruling to be.

The wording on defenders is wierd through. I dont know if it was changed with the new starters, but the wording on the website says a unit adjecent to the defender cannon be moved, where a Deceiver is a unit cannot move.

I wold interpet this as a Deceiver prevents the unit from being chosen as unit to move and therefore cannot use "instead of abilities". But with the Defender you can can still choose the unit to move and use its abilities(Zero space movement), you just cant phically move away.

JYoder

12-12-2012, 06:29 PM

No, that's not the case, because a unit with Plague next to a defender cannot move 0 spaces, and therefore, cannot trigger it's ability.

I have to say, this discussion is a little deflating. A strength of SW is its elegant design and careful wording. In going along with that, there really needs to be a simple base rule to clarify what "instead of attacking" or "instead of moving" means. As I see it, there are two options...

1) "Instead of attacking/moving" takes up of 1 of your 3 attacks/moves, regardless of any other conditions.

OR

2) "Instead of attacking/moving" can only take place if the unit is allowed to perform an attack/move.

darkbladecb

12-12-2012, 06:31 PM

As things currently stand, an instead of attacking ability is not an attack and, therefore, instead of attacking abilities will affect the Horror.

It's kind of combination of:
2.6.5.1: If a Unit uses an "instead of moving" ability next to the Horror Mutant, can it attack the Horror mutant? Yes. The Unit used its ability instead of moving, so did not end a move next to the Horror Mutant and may thus attack it.

and

1.0.0.21: When a Special Ability says “instead of attacking” and it is used, does that count towards the limit of 3 Unit attacks per player turn?
Yes. During your Attack Phase, you choose 3 Units to attack with. They can choose to use their attack as normal or to use an “instead of attacking” ability if they have one.

So, during your attack phase, you are choosing a Unit. Then, that Unit is either attacking or using his ability. The unit cannot in this case attack, but because the unit is using an instead of attacking ability (and that's not blocked here) that's fair game.

killercactus

12-12-2012, 06:33 PM

The new starters have the revised wording, yes.

killercactus, you also have to keep in mind the ruling at the moment is that Fire Beasts cannot kill Deceivers when Stunned. This is an area that'll need clarification in the FAQ.

Alright - I didn't know that. That definitely changes things.

If that's the case, I'd agree then that Storm Mages can't blow up Horror or Deceivers. However, I'm now confused about Defender vs Miner - I don't think it as easy as "cannot move = cannot be moved".

darkbladecb

12-12-2012, 06:35 PM

Alright - I didn't know that. That definitely changes things.

If that's the case, I'd agree then that Storm Mages can't blow up Horror or Deceivers. However, I'm now confused about Defender vs Miner - I don't think it as easy as "cannot move = cannot be moved".

Fire Beasts can blow up Deceivers.

Miners can "move" away from defenders because they're getting placed into the a new space.

darkbladecb

12-12-2012, 06:36 PM

JYoder

12-12-2012, 06:54 PM

I'll fix your problem and say that it is 1.

If that's the case, then awesome -- and thank you! Because that answers all questions...

Storm Mage, after moving adjacent to Horror Mutant, can zap it.
Deceiver cannot prevent Rune Mage Siphon.
Defender cannot prevent Rune Mage Siphon.
Fire Beast can torch Deceiver.
etc.

However, as I understand it, the word "normally" turns it into option 2, meaning a Lioneer cannot zip away from a Defender, etc.

Hitman

12-12-2012, 06:54 PM

I'll fix your problem and say that it is 1.

Unless it is an "instead of moving normally". :P

Its not the ruling I like, but I am glad to get some clarification on it. Thanks.

darkbladecb

12-12-2012, 06:58 PM

Unless it is an "instead of moving normally". :P

Which is moving, but different. ;)

JYoder

12-13-2012, 10:12 AM

killercactus

12-13-2012, 11:16 AM

Sorry to prolong this a bit, but this "instead of" ruling is important. TNS said the official ruling is a Fire Beast cannot torch a Deceiver. (Which made KC believe Storm Mage cannot zap Horror.) Based on what DarkBlade said, both are incorrect. So the Fire Beast ruling needs to change. Where are these "official rulings" located so they can be corrected?

I'm not sure there even is anything "official". Maybe that's why I didn't know about it....?

I'm glad that all my typing over the last two pages wasnt in vain.... :)

Olivier

12-13-2012, 11:24 AM

Storm Mage, after moving adjacent to Horror Mutant, can zap it.
Deceiver cannot prevent Rune Mage Siphon.
Defender cannot prevent Rune Mage Siphon.
Fire Beast can torch Deceiver.
etc.

I wish the correct ruling was option 2 as none of these things make sense to me.

JYoder

12-13-2012, 11:34 AM

I wish the correct ruling was option 2 as none of these things make sense to me.

Rules-wise or thematically?

tortugatron

12-13-2012, 11:44 AM

Everyone of these should be roll a die. On the result of 4 or higher, ignore the rules.

Olivier

12-13-2012, 11:57 AM

Both. Mostly, it's un-instinctive. Then I do not like having to check the exact wording of each card, including that of my opponent, in the middle of a game and sometimes check the FAQ just to be sure that the effect that I'm trying to create will effectively happen, considering the specific match-up. example: i'm playing bender against filth, now i have to check every single mutation before i play my deceivers to check which one(s) can get around it. and my opponent has to check all mine before he plays horror. it makes things unnecessarily more complicated. Already, and even though I play this game a lot, I sometimes make mistakes because I didn't read properly a card (or forgot about it) and it makes me mad. For example, I only realized yesterday that claw mutant doesn't work on summoners. Well, it was written all the time, yes, I had just never paid attention to it and it cost me the game. Now this " instead of moving/attacking", with the "normally" clause adds another layer of complexity that distracts me from the game. My instinct tells me that if a fire beast is stunned it shouldn't be able to blast the deceiver. Even if it's the official ruling, I know that I will forget about it and lose games because of it. Or when my partner will play a game against me, and I blast his deceiver with my fire beast, he will get mad even after I show him the FAQ. Because it's not instinctive.

Edit: well, I just realized that my example with bender vs filth is actually invalid because summoning a new mutation actually makes it a different unit and therefore un-stuns it. But that's exactly my point: there is already enough complexity as it is.

killercactus

12-13-2012, 02:20 PM

Honestly I don't think it's very complex at all - I think it's actually simpler.

Instead of attacking is not attacking. Done.

thenightsshadow

12-13-2012, 02:26 PM

Sorry to prolong this a bit, but this "instead of" ruling is important. TNS said the official ruling is a Fire Beast cannot torch a Deceiver. (Which made KC believe Storm Mage cannot zap Horror.) Based on what DarkBlade said, both are incorrect. So the Fire Beast ruling needs to change. Where are these "official rulings" located so they can be corrected?

Thankfully the official ruling for that can be changed, and we'll just need to point it out on the Unit pages.

JYoder

12-13-2012, 03:26 PM

Olivier, I do see what you mean -- it can be a bit non-intuitive to have to gauge the exact wording in certain cases. And it's most painful after a play has been made and both players need to determine the meaning, especially if one is caught off guard with out realizing how it could work. But on the flip side, it does allow for more choices and variability, which is a good thing. And I'm very glad there at least appears to be a consistent ruling.

To try to help make it more intuitive, think of it this way, in regards to movement...

Three people are allowed to walk down the street. However, two have been granted special privileges.

Adam has none. All he can do is walk.
Barry, "instead of walking," may choose to fly a kite... something entirely different.
Charles, "instead of walking normally," may choose to run down the street... but that's still considered moving.

Now a barricade has been placed across the sidewalk to prevent moving. It affects Adam and even Charles, regardless of what he chooses. However, Barry can opt to be unaffected by the barricade by not "moving" at all and flying a kite.

Hopefully that helps. However, it's definitely most confusing when the end result of an "instead of attacking" or "instead of moving" still results it what appears to be an attack or movement. Therefore, the Rune Mage is less confusing -- his ability does not result in him moving anywhere. However, the Fire Beast is more confusing. Because based on what we've now learned, if the Fire Beast hellfires a Cultist (which looks like an attack since the Cultist is killed) then Death Curse does not trigger.

So in that regard, it goes back to your non-intuitive comment, which I definitely understand, but if the ruling is consistent, it can be worked around.

thenightsshadow

12-13-2012, 04:02 PM

You want confusing?

- What happens when Maelena attacks a FK Cultist, and only the wound from BURNING BLADE hits?
- How about the game state when Silts gets two wounds from different Vine Walls in the same turn?
- Or using MAGE PUSH on a Cave Goblin Unit in-between SWIFT STRIKE attacks?

You can't avoid confusing situations in a game with multiple moving parts. It's the ugly thing of having this many parts. I'm glad that Summoner Wars is so simplistic the FAQ page is 8-9 pages, not 1,000+ pages, personally.

thenobleknave

12-13-2012, 04:41 PM

- What happens when Maelena attacks a FK Cultist, and only the wound from BURNING BLADE hits?
DEATH CURSE triggers. It's still an enemy attack, BURNING BLADE just ups the damage.

- How about the game state when Silts gets two wounds from different Vine Walls in the same turn?
His ability is a "place," so Vine Walls only affect him when moving. It happens sequentially. Vine Walls state, "On a result of 3 or lower, that Unit receives 1 Wound Marker and cannot move off of the Vine Wall space." So he could try to move off a Vine Wall, fail and take a Wound, use CUNNING to move onto a different Vine Wall, try to move again, fail and take a second Wound, being stuck on that Vine Wall.

- Or using MAGE PUSH on a Cave Goblin Unit in-between SWIFT STRIKE attacks?
SWIFT STRIKE says "immediately," I'd give that priority over MAGE PUSH.

Of course, I could be wrong on any of these :D

thenightsshadow

12-13-2012, 05:01 PM

First one is no, actually. A few of the answers on the FAQ have to be combined but you can see on the Unit page the answer is no.

The second one has happened. It is legally possible in game to have Silts move twice and get caught by two different Vine Walls. The confusing thing is asking how it would happen. However, in the scenario you describe, since you have him trapped on the Vine Wall, and it's still the movement phase, can he now then be pushed with Sandstorm after being trapped?

thenobleknave

12-13-2012, 05:36 PM

The wording of BURNING BLADE does make it seem like that's a reasonable interpretation, although it still seems a bit shaky to me.

I would assume that Krusk can Sandstorm a Unit off of a Vine Wall (or at least try) even if that Unit failed to move off of it because it's a separate movement entirely. The Vine Wall rules don't state "for the rest of the turn," rather just that the Unit in question can't move off of the Vine Wall. I would assume it's the same thing as if you were to have Sin-Sin or Vlox CHARM a Unit off of a Vine Wall that earlier failed to move.

Convoy_Avenger

12-14-2012, 08:20 AM

If I have a Deceiver with Stun next to some Shadow Elves, on their turn, does Stalking Advance allow those units to move? And if so, can they attack and move additionally after the fact?

killercactus

12-14-2012, 08:33 AM

- Or using MAGE PUSH on a Cave Goblin Unit in-between SWIFT STRIKE attacks?
SWIFT STRIKE says "immediately," I'd give that priority over MAGE PUSH.

Mage Push is only during Kynder's turn, and regardless, "any time" abilities can only activate on the opponents turn between phases, so it still wouldn't work.

killercactus

12-14-2012, 08:37 AM

If I have a Deceiver with Stun next to some Shadow Elves, on their turn, does Stalking Advance allow those units to move? And if so, can they attack and move additionally after the fact?

If those Shadow Elves you speak of are common, then no - they cannot move with Stalking Advance, and they definitely can't attack.

Upshmuzza

12-18-2012, 01:10 AM

Hello community,

(Q) Possessed Wall: Since the card says "(…) At any time, a player may choose to discard 2 cards from their hand (…)", couldn't you then simply do that during the "Draw Cards"-Phase? Say you hadn't any cards in your Hand and want to get rid of the Possessed Wall Event.
You draw cards normally during the phase. You discard two cards you don't like (thus get rid of the event) and then draw two new cards (all in the same phase)?

Is that allowed by the rules? How come then people saying that Possessed wall is a strong event?
It seems to me to do only little damage to your opponent because of the "at any time"…

Thanks in advance –
Upshmuzza

thenightsshadow

12-18-2012, 02:01 AM

The rules for Freeze apply here as well. Because you don't control Possessed Wall, you can only get rid of it in-between phases. Basically, you have these options:

Between an opponent's Build Magic Phase and your Draw Phase.
Between your Draw Phase and your Summon Phase.
Between your Summon Phase and your Event Phase.
Between your Event Phase and your Movement Phase.
Between your Movement Phase and Attack Phase.
Between your Attack Phase and your Build Magic Phase.
Between your Build Magic phase and an opponent's Draw Phase.

Besides those times, you can't do it on your turn.

Upshmuzza

12-18-2012, 03:53 AM

Thanks for the quick response! .)

Smitty

12-18-2012, 08:20 AM

Wait, I thought "at any time" meant any time on your own turn, and only in-between phases on your opponent's turn, with the controller of the card being irrelevant. That's what the FAQ says, at least, and TNS, while I do see on the FAQ discussion thread here (http://www.plaidhatgames.com/sum_forums/showthread.php?2161-FAQ-2-0-Discussion-cb-style&p=47207#post47207) where you talked about Freeze, later in that same thread here (http://www.plaidhatgames.com/sum_forums/showthread.php?2161-FAQ-2-0-Discussion-cb-style&p=47657#post47657) KC and Barliman quote the FAQ to show it doesn't matter who controls Freeze.

That said, you still couldn't discard Possessed Wall during the middle of your Draw phase, because drawing up to all 5 cards is one action, and can't be split:

2.6.6.1: Can the cards be discarded from the hand (to discard Possessed Wall) in the middle of the Draw Phase, so we can continue drawing until we reach 5 cards? No. The drawing up to five cards in the draw step is an entire action. You draw a number of cards such that you have five cards in your hand. Therefore, you may not discard cards during this draw cards action. You may, however, discard cards prior to the entire draw action to discard Possessed Wall.

killercactus

12-18-2012, 08:32 AM

Wait, I thought "at any time" meant any time on your own turn, and only in-between phases on your opponent's turn, with the controller or the card being irrelevant. That's what the FAQ says, at least, and TNS, while I do see on the FAQ discussion thread here (http://www.plaidhatgames.com/sum_forums/showthread.php?2161-FAQ-2-0-Discussion-cb-style&p=47207#post47207) where you talked about Freeze, later in that same thread here (http://www.plaidhatgames.com/sum_forums/showthread.php?2161-FAQ-2-0-Discussion-cb-style&p=47657#post47657) KC and Barliman quote the FAQ to show it doesn't matter who controls Freeze.

That said, you still couldn't discard Possessed Wall during the middle of your Draw phase, because drawing up to all 5 cards is one action, and can't be split:

2.6.6.1: Can the cards be discarded from the hand (to discard Possessed Wall) in the middle of the Draw Phase, so we can continue drawing until we reach 5 cards? No. The drawing up to five cards in the draw step is an entire action. You draw a number of cards such that you have five cards in your hand. Therefore, you may not discard cards during this draw cards action. You may, however, discard cards prior to the entire draw action to discard Possessed Wall.

I agree that this is correct. I read that response just now and started looking for where we talked about that, but Smitty was faster.

Freeze and Possessed Wall create "any time" abilities that either player can activate. The controller of the card doesn't matter - what matters is which player can activate the ability, and whose turn it is. On your turn, you could move someone one space, discard for Possessed Wall, and move that same unit another space. You can't do this between after an opponent moves a unit one space on their turn - you have to discard for Possessed Wall between their phases.

However, the draw phase thing doesn't work thanks to the elegant little FAQ entry above...

thenightsshadow

12-18-2012, 09:43 PM

Oh right, that was changed. Thanks for updating, kc and Smitty.

TheInnocent

12-19-2012, 02:45 AM

I'm sure this has had a thread somewhere, but I'm not sure how to find it (so links are welcome!). What's the ideal net cost range for a custom deck?

killercactus

12-19-2012, 07:22 AM

I'm sure this has had a thread somewhere, but I'm not sure how to find it (so links are welcome!). What's the ideal net cost range for a custom deck?

Are you talking in terms of summon cost? If you are, I used to think it was around 40, but then I started just looking at the champions cost. So many commons get built that it tends not to matter really IMO.

TheInnocent

12-19-2012, 11:49 AM

Are you talking in terms of summon cost? If you are, I used to think it was around 40, but then I started just looking at the champions cost. So many commons get built that it tends not to matter really IMO.

Yeah, in terms of summon cost. I agree for most factions that I look more at champ cost than common cost, but right now my main curiosity is for a common-heavy JE build. Anyone have any thoughts on that? I ask because I have a build that I like a lot, but my wife is putting together a deck of her own and she's hoping for a rough economic guideline.

killercactus

12-19-2012, 12:02 PM

It really depends on what you plan on summoning. I never expect to get more than 10 magic out of my opponent, and that's probably a bit high. If you want to summon 5 commons, that means you can build 8, so you're at 18. Build a couple events to get to 20. That gets you to 20 for the 3 standard champs if don't kill your own guys.

That's kind of how I figure out where my basic economy for a deck is. There's not really a rule of thumb I can come up with.

TheInnocent

12-19-2012, 03:27 PM