Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here!

[Sauam]

*deadpan*
Are the Deep Dwarves really supposed to have 4 Walls?

Broken- tier!

[esper88]

As a general rule, where do discarded cards go?

Powers like Fear, Taculla's Counter Summon, events like Freeze, where do those cards go? Only really matters for FK and Summoning Surge decks, but it's still a good thing to know.

[prometheuslkr]

Discard pile of the player that is discarding the card.

[Sujoah]

Are you allowed to look through your opponent's magic pile? It's nice if you want to see what they could still possibly have in their hand at the end of the game.

[killercactus]

Are you allowed to look through your opponent's discard pile? It's nice if you want to see what they could still possibly have in their hand at the end of the game.

Yes - discard piles face up and public knowledge

[Sujoah]

Yes - discard piles face up and public knowledge

I fail. I meant to type Magic Pile. I know you can look through your own, but what about your opponent's?

[Klaxas]

you are allowed to know the ammount of magic in the magic pile but not allowed to look through the cards in it, if i recall correctly. I dont even think the owner can look through it unless they play illusiory warrior. not as sure on the second part but im pretty sure you cant look through your opponents magic pile

[prometheuslkr]

I believe rulebook 2.0 says that you can look at the cards in your own magic.

[Elcor13]

Being able to look through your opponents magic pile kind of defeats the purpose of having them face down...

[Sujoah]

Being able to look through your opponents magic pile kind of defeats the purpose of having them face down...

Yeah, that's what I always thought. Illusionarry Warrior just brought up being able to look through your own, so I figured I may as well ask about your opponent's, too.

[esper88]

Being able to look through your opponents magic pile kind of defeats the purpose of having them face down...

Not necessarily. It could have just been to differentiate from the discard pile in an obvious visual way. The question was worth asking.

[thenightsshadow]

When a trample Unit such as Miti Mumway moves over a Unit that shares a space with a Vine Wall, what happens when Miti Mumway fails the die roll to move off the Vine Wall?

[esper88]

That's a doozy of a question. My best guess is that the Trample unit cannot attempt to Trample a unit on a Vine Wall.

But I think we need a ruling by someone with authority.

[Tisroero]

Could just say that units can't trample over a wall.

[froembum]

Page 4 of the master set rulebook...

"A Unit can never use an Event or Special Ability to move through a Unit that is on a Vine Wall"

So you cannot even try to trample a common if they are on a vine wall, looks like it stops flying too.

[jschild]

Page 4 of the master set rulebook...

"A Unit can never use an Event or Special Ability to move through a Unit that is on a Vine Wall"

So you cannot even try to trample a common if they are on a vine wall, looks like it stops flying too.

I think flying would be ok as they do not move "through" a unit.

EDIT: Nope, I'm wrong, flying cards use the exact same "through" wordage and thus would be affected as well.

[KCU Master 2007]

Yeah they do. Flying and greater flying both state that the unit can move through other units. So vine walls stop them.

[esper88]

This just came up in a game, believe it or not:

SFA

That's a Sniper next to a FireBeast next to the Admiral with 1 health left.

If the Firebeast uses Hellfire to autowound both of them, can the Admiral nerf the wound from the Sniper or couldn't he because he would be dead?

This situation applies to other area attacks such a Krung and Violet and Magic Torrent.

[VanceMadrox]

The player whose turn it is gets to choose the order in which damage is applied.

[Sauam]

The player whose turn it is gets to choose the order in which damage is applied.

this

it's important because I remember Truth post it somewhere that if AOE attack that can deal fatal wound on both summoner at the same time will make a difference (as I will choose to deal the fatal to enemy summoner first, than win the game as soon as that happens)

[PePe QuiCoSE]

Custom Earthquakes ftw

[Setharillius]

So what happens when Blarf, Reapers, Scavengers and the like are "Freeze"ed? their ability should theoretically not be usable, so what about that magic under them?

[Tisroero]

What about the magick?

[Elcor13]

So what happens when Blarf, Reapers, Scavengers and the like are "Freeze"ed? their ability should theoretically not be usable, so what about that magic under them?

I think that whoever kills them if they're frozen still get the magic. Freeze doesn't stop them from having cards underneath, just stops them from using them as a bonus (much like Chant of Negation.)

[Quintaton16]

That's right. The rules governing what happens to cards under another card are in the rulebook, not dependent on the abilities on the card. So the additional cards can't be used as per the ability, but they still work as the rulebook says, namely that cards under a Unit which is destroyed go to the Magic pile with the Unit.

[Charr21]

Does the word "Unit" mean everyone on the battlefield but the Wall or including the Wall? I just need this cleared up because I am confused.

[Klaxas]

Does the word "Unit" mean everyone on the battlefield but the Wall or including the Wall? I just need this cleared up because I am confused.

walls are not units. commons, summoners and champions are units. if an ability also effects Walls, the term Card is used.

so for example, all adjacent units, would hit everything but walls. where all adjacent cards would also effect walls.

[The Ranger's Apprentice]

I'm guessing that means the PE Guardian's Precise wouldn't work on a wall, right?

[lildrummahboi34]

that would be correct, as silly as it seems.

[Airstone]

I probably thought about this too much since it probably just a balancing reason for precise not working on walls but...

You don't need precision when you hit a wall. So actually causing damage to it is what you are rolling for. The way I see it is precision is just the guardians training to find weak spots in the enemy units defense (or the magic of Spirit of the Phoenix guiding the other units).


GD Engineers and Ballistas are actually attacking the walls structural integrity which gives them the potential to do more damage rather than just auto damaging like a precise guardian against units.

[Upshmuzza]

Hey guys, we just played our first match of Summoner Wars (CG vs GD) and we had some questions after game 1.


1. Ranged Combat: Is a unit with a ranged attack able to attack another unit, when it is adjacent to it?

2. Event Phase: Is it valid to play Horde Attack, Rage and Rush in the same phase? (I had two turns today when I played all three of them and I was obliterating my opponent's units... We both became unsure about playing them all in one turn)

3. Horde Attack: When there is an enemy unit X adjacent to one of my Fighters, and I shoot at this particular unit X with a Slinger from distance
- does the Slinger still get his +1 attack value (beacause the Fighter is adjacent)?

4. Attack Phase: Do I have to declare and resolve all my attacks at the same time or can I declare unit 1 to attack, then roll, then see how the attack went and then declare and resolve unit 2 to attack (and so on)?

5. First Round: Is it correct that the player who takes the first turn in a game skips the first 3 phases and thus doesn't have any cards in his hand, nor the ability to summon anything until round 2?

6. Hammer Quake: Does Gror damage his own units (and walls) as well?
_____

Uhm, that's all for now, I guess. By the way - English is not my first language, so please don't mind my bad grammar and language in general.
Thanks!

Cheers from Berlin,
Upshmuzza

[thenightsshadow]

1. Ranged Combat: Is a unit with a ranged attack able to attack another unit, when it is adjacent to it?

YES.

2. Event Phase: Is it valid to play Horde Attack, Rage and Rush in the same phase? (I had two turns today when I played all three of them and I was obliterating my opponent's units... We both became unsure about playing them all in one turn)

YES.

3. Horde Attack: When there is an enemy unit X adjacent to one of my Fighters, and I shoot at this particular unit X with a Slinger from distance
- does the Slinger still get his +1 attack value (beacause the Fighter is adjacent)?

YES.

4. Attack Phase: Do I have to declare and resolve all my attacks at the same time or can I declare unit 1 to attack, then roll, then see how the attack went and then declare and resolve unit 2 to attack (and so on)?

The second.

5. First Round: Is it correct that the player who takes the first turn in a game skips the first 3 phases and thus doesn't have any cards in his hand, nor the ability to summon anything until round 2?

YES. Also, they can only move two Units if they go first, not three. They still get to attack with three, though.

6. Hammer Quake: Does Gror damage his own units (and walls) as well?

YES.


That was quick, huh?

[Upshmuzza]

That was quick, huh?

Yeah man, you're awesome ;)
Thanks a lot.

[Upshmuzza]

Some new questions did arise:

1. Berserker: If there are, for instance, 2 enemy units and 1 friendly unit adjacent to the Berserker and you opt to use his Assault ability, does the Berserker attack the friendly unit as well or can you decide only to attack the 2 enemy units?

2. Goblin Rage: Does the 2nd attack provided by Swift Strike always have to target the same unit as the first attack does - or can you attack unit A with the 'normal' attack and attack unit B with the attack provided by Swift Strike?

3. Gror: Do you only roll once the dice for his Hammer Quake ability and apply the wounds to all units in the AOE or do you roll damage seperately?
___

By the way... it seems that Guild Dwarves really can only shine in the late game. We figured out that Cave Goblins really gank up too fast for most of the games and that summoning 1 or 2 Guild Dwarf Champions takes far too long to keep up pace with the Gobboz... Any tips?

[Clarissimus]

1. Berserker: If there are, for instance, 2 enemy units and 1 friendly unit adjacent to the Berserker and you opt to use his Assault ability, does the Berserker attack the friendly unit as well or can you decide only to attack the 2 enemy units?

Go back and read the card. It says the Berserker "may attack all enemy Units that are adjacent to it." So when your Berserker attacks you basically have two choices: 1) You can attack normally, choosing as your target any one card (enemy or friendly, walls included) or 2) You can attack all adjacent enemy units.

Also note that when the game says "Units" it does not include walls. Walls are "cards" but walls are not "units."


2. Goblin Rage: Does the 2nd attack provided by Swift Strike always have to target the same unit as the first attack does - or can you attack unit A with the 'normal' attack and attack unit B with the attack provided by Swift Strike?

You just get to attack again, could be the same target or a different one, your choice. Nothing on the Goblin Rage card says it has to be the same target.


3. Gror: Do you only roll once the dice for his Hammer Quake ability and apply the wounds to all units in the AOE or do you roll damage seperately?

The card says "all units are affected by the attack." So you just attack once (ie roll dice once) and then resolve the attack as if every unit in range was affected by that dice roll.


By the way... it seems that Guild Dwarves really can only shine in the late game. We figured out that Cave Goblins really gank up too fast for most of the games and that summoning 1 or 2 Guild Dwarf Champions takes far too long to keep up pace with the Gobboz... Any tips?

If you are getting flooded by enemy units (Cave Goblin or otherwise) you need to summon units to defend yourself! It's true that having a few awesome champions can be very powerful, but sometimes it's not worth risking an early death to save up for them.

And by killing hordes of goblins you will be getting magic back for their deaths. You can use that to help get your champion(s) out.

[Upshmuzza]

Not exactly a rule question, but:

1. Swamp-Orcs: In the "Factions" Section there is always the name of vine walls, however, I couldn't find those anywhere. What exactly are vine walls?

Cheers from Berlin,
Upshmuzza

[Sauam]

Not exactly a rule question, but:

1. Swamp-Orcs: In the "Factions" Section there is always the name of vine walls, however, I couldn't find those anywhere. What exactly are vine walls?

Cheers from Berlin,
Upshmuzza

Vine walls are special walls that only the Swamp Orcs has control of. Think Tundra Orcs and their Ice walls but much more complicated (in a good way)

I take it that you don't have the Master Set? What's the wait...? ;)

[Upshmuzza]

What's the wait...? ;)

Money. 50€ is quite a sum for me.

How many vine walls are included in the deck? Are they event cards or special 'tokens' in multiple numbers?

[killercactus]

Money. 50€ is quite a sum for me.

How many vine walls are included in the deck? Are they event cards or special 'tokens' in multiple numbers?

They're basically special tokens - you get 15 of them.

They act like walls, except that you can move onto them and place them under other units. You can't shoot through them, and you can't move off of them unless you roll a 4 or higher. If you roll and fail, you stop there and take a wound. Also, you can never move through a unit that is on a vine wall.

[Upshmuzza]

Wow, that sounds very interesting and indeed powerful.

Does anyone of you guys have experience with playing Swamp Orcs?
Is there a thread or deckbuild in the forum, where one could read more about Swamp Orc strats?

[Clarissimus]

I agree that the Swamp Orcs are powerful -- they can often prove to be a very challenging opponent as their Vine Walls extend across the map, blocking off your units and making it hard (or even impossible) for your summoner to hide from them.

Here is a forum thread in which Swamp Orc strategy is discussed:
http://www.plaidhatgames.com/sum_forums/showthread.php?t=1042

[Nil0]

Am I allowed to roll 6+ dice (heroic feat)? Or does 5 dice in a starter set mean 5 dice is a limit?

[chardris77]

Yes, you may roll more than 5 dice.

[Shockma Ranyk]

Can a player rearrange the order of the cards in his or her magic pile, for the sake of Illusionary Warrior, Raising the Dead, etc?

[lildrummahboi34]

Can a player rearrange the order of the cards in his or her magic pile, for the sake of Illusionary Warrior, Raising the Dead, etc?

No, sir. A player may only look at cards in the magic pile. Rearranging is a no go.

[iglew]

I'm still wondering if you can pick the order they go in when doing a Magic Drain or killing a Reaper. We've been playing you can choose the order, but I never heard an official ruling on that.

[thenightsshadow]

Magic Drain should be as if you took the top two cards of the opponent's Magic Pile and placed them on top of yours without rearranging.

As for the Reaper, as far as I can remember, it's supposed to be the Reaper first, then the first Unit he killed, then the second, etc., until the last.

[iglew]

Magic Drain should be as if you took the top two cards of the opponent's Magic Pile and placed them on top of yours without rearranging.

As for the Reaper, as far as I can remember, it's supposed to be the Reaper first, then the first Unit he killed, then the second, etc., until the last.

Is this how these were ruled, or just how you think it should be? I looked for an official ruling but couldn't find any. If you know of one, please tell me where.

By default, the general pattern seems to be that when order for something is not specified, the player doing it can choose the order.

[thenightsshadow]

I agree there should be an official ruling.

Speaking of which, what's the official ruling on Chant of Negation on Elut-Bal's ability and Stonecloak's ability?

[Elcor13]

I agree there should be an official ruling.

Speaking of which, what's the official ruling on Chant of Negation on Elut-Bal's ability and Stonecloak's ability?

I'd assume that Elut-Bal costs 7 that turn and Stonecloaks don't do a wound to the wall.

[iglew]

The Chant of Negation thing has been answered. The question only came up because of the text on the picture on the website, which says "on the Battlefield", which Elut and Stonecloaks aren't yet. The text on the actual card has different wording which clearly includes all of an opponent's Units, whether on the board or not.

This is discussed in the comments to the Book of Abua Shi. Jexik said that the card on the website is an earlier version and it was changed precisely to cover cases like this.

[thenightsshadow]

Next question:

You control a Deceiver and a Controller, adjacent to each other. Your opponent plays Mind Control on the Controller, bringing it to his side. Now, it's an enemy Common Unit, and it did start the turn adjacent to the Deceiver, so will it be stunned, even though it wasn't an enemy Common Unit at the start of your opponent's turn?

[killercactus]

I don't think so. Stun is checked at the beginning of the turn, and the Controller doesn't become an enemy until after that.

[thenightsshadow]

Question: If a Unit moves to trample a common Unit, which is right next to a Unit with Fear, and the Fear roll succeeds, what happens to the Unit that was moved over?

Answer: The Unit that was moved over does not receive a Wound Marker, because the Unit did not travel onto and off the Unit.

[Upshmuzza]

Can one use sandstorm multiple times in the same turn?

[Sauam]

Can one use sandstorm multiple times in the same turn?

Krusk can only activates Sandstorm once each turn AND only right after the movement phase.

If a card specify a time when you can use the ability (in this case after movment phase). You can only do so when that specific moment. If it were meant to be whenever and/or multiple times, it will says so. Such as "Whenever so and so..." or "For each so and so magic spent"

Think of it as "triggering" effect in other card games. It triggers after movement phase, once that is over, you missed the time to activates.

[Upshmuzza]

Thanks for reply.

[Sauam]

Thanks for reply.

np.

Also note that Krusk's Sandstorm are activated in sequence. The general rule in this game is activates ability in the orders it is worded.

So Sandstorm will be:
1) Pay 2 magic
2) Choose up to 3 units
3) Move up to 1 space each (in order of your choice here)
4) Roll for each unit moved in this way (again, in order of your choice)

So if a unit that has an ability that activates right after it is moved (like Rats) It will activates between step 3 and 4... So a step 3a)

[Ryujin]

Question: How do you change a thread's title? I thought you were supposed to edit the title of the original post, but that didn't work.

[thenightsshadow]

I believe that function of vbulletin is locked. It'll take Truth or another administrator to enable that in order for it to work.

When it does, though, changing the OP's title is indeed how you change the title.

[lildrummahboi34]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed already, but does anyone know what will come with purchases in the iOS App?
For Example, if I bought the Jungle Elves, what cards do I get to play with? will I get the base faction deck? will I have 10 of every common to use? what about reinforcement packs? will those be a separate purchase as well?
Regardless of how it is distributed, I will buy it all. I am just rather curious.

[joepinion]

Reinforcement packs... I believe they're bought separately. 10 of a common from the base deck... I THINK I remember you should be able to do that without re-buying a deck. However I still don't know if anything is set in stone with that kind of stuff.

[teaforthetillerman]

Two-part question:

(1) Does Lun's ability permit him to move a unit, say, during the build magic phase, or must he use his ability *immediately* after moving?

(2) Is there an *official* answer regarding this? It's not in the FAQ. My playmate is skeptical of answers from "some guys on internet forums" and would prefer an *official* answer from a PHG representative. ... is this even feasible? Do PHG rules gurus post here?

(Obviously I'm aware that (1) has been answered here by forum participants in the past. However, see (2) for why this awareness doesn't help our situation.)

Thanks a ton.

[Barliman]

Two-part question:

(1) Does Lun's ability permit him to move a unit, say, during the build magic phase, or must he use his ability *immediately* after moving?

(2) Is there an *official* answer regarding this? It's not in the FAQ. My playmate is skeptical of answers from "some guys on internet forums" and would prefer an *official* answer from a PHG representative. ... is this even feasible? Do PHG rules gurus post here?

(Obviously I'm aware that (1) has been answered here by forum participants in the past. However, see (2) for why this awareness doesn't help our situation.)

Thanks a ton.
1) In the card texts, "after" always means "immediately after", unless otherwise stated.

2) The guys on these forums include many playtesters, who have been told the correct interpretations during their playtesting work. It wouldn't hurt to add your question to a future version of the FAQ, though.

If you want an official answer, you can send a PM to Colby aka truth, the designer, or to James aka Jexik, the head playtester.

[prometheuslkr]

Two-part question:

(1) Does Lun's ability permit him to move a unit, say, during the build magic phase, or must he use his ability *immediately* after moving?

(2) Is there an *official* answer regarding this? It's not in the FAQ. My playmate is skeptical of answers from "some guys on internet forums" and would prefer an *official* answer from a PHG representative. ... is this even feasible? Do PHG rules gurus post here?

(Obviously I'm aware that (1) has been answered here by forum participants in the past. However, see (2) for why this awareness doesn't help our situation.)

Thanks a ton.

This belongs in the Book of Lun, but...

After some searching, I didn't find anything about it in the FAQ or in the Books. I guess we just all assumed it was intuitive to be immediately after moving. Where was (1) answered by forum participants? (edit: nm, found that thenisghtsshadow at least specifically addressed it) But yes, representatives of PHG, such as Truth, Jexik, and Phoenixio, to name a few, do post here on a regular basis.

[MNT]

For example, when my "Warrior"(Mountain Vargath) with "Battle Frenzy" adding 1 Attack Value, faces against "Scout"(Shadow Elves) at their side of the Battlefield. Do I need to roll a die to kill, or the "scout" will just die instantly at the time I decide to kill it since it has only 1 life point anyway?

[thenightsshadow]

+1 Attack Value only means one more die roll. It doesn't mean you deal 1 additional damage.

It's possible (11% of the time) for a Mountain Vargath Warrior using Battle Frenzy to miss a Scout. If that same Warrior is also under the effect of Command/Greater Command, there's a 2.6% chance to miss that same Scout.

So no, you don't get to automatically kill anything with an regular attack. Precise/Sluggish are the exceptions.

[MNT]

Thank you so much:)

[teaforthetillerman]

This belongs in the Book of Lun, but...

After some searching, I didn't find anything about it in the FAQ or in the Books. I guess we just all assumed it was intuitive to be immediately after moving. Where was (1) answered by forum participants? (edit: nm, found that thenisghtsshadow at least specifically addressed it) But yes, representatives of PHG, such as Truth, Jexik, and Phoenixio, to name a few, do post here on a regular basis.

Thanks--I'll hope they see this.

[prometheuslkr]

Thanks--I'll hope they see this.

And if not, you could always shoot one of them a PM.

[darkbladecb]

It's immediately after for Lun. I'll try to remember to tell Jex for the next FAQ.

[Barliman]

It's immediately after for Lun. I'll try to remember to tell Jex for the next FAQ.

I'm pretty sure "after" means "immediately after" every time -- at least I can't think of an instance when "after" could mean "in a later phase of the turn", unless it explicitly says so.

[Upshmuzza]

Hello there,

I've got two questions.

Q1. "Gang Up" (Goblin Horde Attack): What does 'every other friendly Cave Goblin Unit' mean in the descriptor? Does that mean, that if there are two Berserkers (for instance) adjacent to an enemy unit and you play Goblin Horde Attack, that each of the Berserkers gets effectively +1 AV...? (So attacking with both would mean attacking with 6 dice totally = 3+3, right?)

Q2. Translation Issue (Phoenix Elves): In Germany, the word "clear" in the ability-texts for all Phoenix Elves (e.g. Prinz Elien, Archers) was completely left out in the translation. I wondered if this has great effect on the rulings and the way one could interpret how the ability works. Could you please point out, where the difference would be with all those cards, if their abilities would also work without having a "clear straight line", but instead only in a "straight line". That would help me a lot.
____

Hoping for a quick response. Thanks in advance.

[thenightsshadow]

Hello there,

I've got two questions.

Q1. "Gang Up" (Goblin Horde Attack): What does 'every other friendly Cave Goblin Unit' mean in the descriptor? Does that mean, that if there are two Berserkers (for instance) adjacent to an enemy unit and you play Goblin Horde Attack, that each of the Berserkers gets effectively +1 AV...? (So attacking with both would mean attacking with 6 dice totally = 3+3, right?)

Yes. Basically, when attacking with a Cave Goblin Unit, count all the Units adjacent to the Unit you are attacking, but don't count the attacking Unit. If a Slinger attacks Krung while being three clear straight line spaces away, and there are two other Slingers and a Fighter adjacent to Krung, that Slinger gets 4 AV for that attack. (This AV holds if you attack the same target again with Rage, but not if you change targets. You'd have to calculate the new AV based on that same formula mentioned up there.)



Q2. Translation Issue (Phoenix Elves): In Germany, the word "clear" in the ability-texts for all Phoenix Elves (e.g. Prinz Elien, Archers) was completely left out in the translation. I wondered if this has great effect on the rulings and the way one could interpret how the ability works. Could you please point out, where the difference would be with all those cards, if their abilities would also work without having a "clear straight line", but instead only in a "straight line". That would help me a lot.
____

Hoping for a quick response. Thanks in advance.

One major problem is Prince Elien being able to use Fire Blast behind Walls and allied Units, and Archers being able to attack from behind Walls and allied Units. As you can no doubt tell, that makes the game that much harder when facing the Phoenix Elves. This would also mean a Unit with Rider (not in PE, but is in the CG reinforcements) would be able to travel through Units.

[XPD]

I just bought the Master Set and played 3 games so far. One question I have on movement is, can you move off of a space then back on to it with the same move. This came up with Vinemancers Ambush move off a vine wall and back on it to get the attack boost, and Torodin move on a common and back for Trample and keep positioning.

[joepinion]

Absolutely. In fact, you can even move a unit zero spaces and have it count as a move, if you choose. (That wouldn't help Torodin or Hunters, but it would help Krusk since he can move a unit 0 spaces and then could still roll the dice to add wounds to each "moved unit.")

I hope you're enjoying the game!

[XPD]

I think the game is great and excited to see how the other factions work.

Alright just looking for clarification and most of this comes from the books of summoner wars in the unit section.

Silts and Kynder both have abilities that say "Once per turn, at anytime on your turn." Can you use these abilities on your opponent's turn in between phases? A comment was made about using Silts on your opponent's turn. Is this to be read, "Once per your turn, at anytime during your turn" Or "Once per turn, during anyone's turn when you could activate a card or at anytime during your turn."

[joepinion]

Only during your turn. However, this even includes during a move (after the first move and before the second) for Silts or someone else.

There are cards that let you do things during your opponent's turn. For example, the Tundra Orc's Freeze card... You can "unfreeze" yourself "at any time"... in this case it means in between phases of your opponent's turn. (And anytime during your turn.)

[Upshmuzza]

http://www.plaidhatgames.com/images/sw/cards/SO_Blerg.gif

1. (Adapt) Blerg: If I opt for removing the Wound Counter from Blerg, what happens the with the destroyed enemy unit? Does it wander to my magic pile (as usual) or is it still alive?

2. (Adapt) Blerg: Does the +4 Attack Value mean 2+4 = 6 in total, or is a maximum of 4 AV in total meant?

3. Vine Walls: Since Vine Walls do count as walls (and not units), they are not affected by abilities, which target units (such as Gror's Hammer Quake ability), is that right...?

4. Hunter: Can a Hunter move off of a Vine Wall one space, and then move onto that same Vine Wall within the same movement to get his +1 AV bonus for this turn...?
___

Thanks in advance for the help!

Cheers,
Upshmutsa

[Sauam]

1. (Adapt) Blerg: If I opt for removing the Wound Counter from Blerg, what happens the with the destroyed enemy unit? Does it wander to my magic pile (as usual) or is it still alive?

A: Goes to Magic as normal

2. (Adapt) Blerg: Does the +4 Attack Value mean 2+4 = 6 in total, or is a maximum of 4 AV in total meant?

A: +4 means just that, plus four. So you are again correct, 6 in total.
Still waiting to see a game where Blerg reaches that large...

3. Vine Walls: Since Vine Walls do count as walls (and not units), they are not affected by abilities, which target units (such as Gror's Hammer Quake ability), is that right...?

A: Yes.

4. Hunter: Can a Hunter move off of a Vine Wall one space, and then move onto that same Vine Wall within the same movement to get his +1 AV bonus for this turn...?

A: Yes again! Do note he need to either move off, or move on to activates.



You pretty much got it in the bag as far as ruling goes. :cool:\
Seem like you'll be fine in the future. Summoner wars are known to have a very solid and intuitive set of rules. So just do how it is read and you'll be 99% good to go.

[Upshmuzza]

@Sauam: Thanks for the kind words and fast response, man .)
@Blerg: Did anyone notice he has an alligator-cap on? ^^

[prometheuslkr]

3. Vine Walls: Since Vine Walls do count as walls (and not units), they are not affected by abilities, which target units (such as Gror's Hammer Quake ability), is that right...?



Note that Gror's ability does affect vine Walls because Gror affects all cards in range, not all Units.

[Upshmuzza]

Note that Gror's ability does affect vine Walls because Gror affects all cards in range, not all Units.

You're right. I missed that somehow.
Thx for clarification.

[thenightsshadow]

Question for those playing the MV:
Would you say it's possible to grab a Wall with Superior Planning?

[killercactus]

Nope - walls are not specific to a summoner as they aren't listed on the reference card. Planning only gets a Sunderved specific Event, and walls are not specific to him.

[thenightsshadow]

Can players use Sandstorm more than once, one right after the other, in succession?

[killercactus]

I'm sure the answer is no, but I don't have a good reason now.

[Sauam]

Can players use Sandstorm more than once, one right after the other, in succession?

Huh...? I thought you would know this by now tns, no offense.

As for your question. It is only once, because it is a "timing trigger" effects. It only triggers right "after your movement phase". So Krusk have only a single opportunity to use Sandstorm... If Krusk were able to use Sandstorm for each 2 magic spend. It would said so. Such as "For each 2 magic spend, do so and so..."

There is many of these so-call "timing trigger" effects. Most notable is Gem Mage "At the beggining of Attack Phase, spend 1 magic..." If Gem Mage were pump'able. It would of said "for each magic..." OR simply won't have the "At the beginning of Attack Phase" clause. Another example would be Sorgwen. Her ability never said once a turn because it don't need to since it's trigger only once at the end of the attack phase.

Edit: This whole coined word of "timing trigger" is only an made up word for sake of exampling.

[mrkurtb]

I know that a unit cannot trample another unit on a vine wall but what happens when trampling a unit adjacent to a Vine Wall?

Specifically, does it go like this?:
1) Miti tramples a Shaman that is adjacent to a Vine Wall
2) "Vine Wall is placed on the space that Unit occupied" -Mugglug's card
3) Miti rolls to see if he moves off of the Vine Wall
4) If successful, he moves off.
OR
If unsuccessful, what then? I assume he is caught on the Vine Wall or does the trample fail completely?
OR
Is the Vine Wall considered to be placed after Miti has left that space?
OR
Is trample not allowed on any unit adjacent to a Vine Wall?

I assume that Miti can trample a unit that is adjacent to a Vine Wall but may become trapped by the Vine Wall that is placed as a result of the death of the original occupying unit. Is this correct? Thanks.

It feels like I've forgotten something obvious here.

[thenightsshadow]

Trample doesn't happen until the trampler moves off of the Unit. So they will never be stuck on the Vine Wall unless they move onto another one.


Huh...? I thought you would know this by now tns, no offense.

I sometimes post questions I know the answer to for the sake of people I play with. They sometimes don't want to hear just my answer.

[joepinion]

The wounds aren't placed until the end of the move, so Miti is unaffected by the vine wall. (edit: ninja'd)

[mrkurtb]

Thanks for the quick replies tns and joe.

I'm giving you guys virtual, virtual rep, if that makes any sense.

[scovron]

hi,
maybe silly question but, is summoner also a unit?
i mean can i use for example special ability of shadow elf summoner on other summoner?

[joepinion]

Yes. That's why some cards specify "common or champion unit" to exclude Summoners.

[Gartch]

Hello everybody

My question is about the event of Mountain Vargath faction:
Superior planning
What is a Sunderved event? Any event of Vargath or only event which affects Sunderved that is only Greater command in basic deck of Mountain Vargath.

Thank you for your answer

[thenightsshadow]

A Sunderved Event is any Event Card that has Sunderved's face on it.

That means all the Event Cards so far, minus the Walls.

[Gartch]

A Sunderved Event is any Event Card that has Sunderved's face on it.

That means all the Event Cards so far, minus the Walls.

Ok thank for the answer :)

[I Hate Atlaga]

Question: When a gorilla pummels someone, does the second attack count as one of the three you are allowed per turn?

[Clarissimus]

Don't think "I get to attack 3 times per turn." Instead, think "I get to attack with 3 units per turn." That will also help you understand Tundra Orc Fighters, Goblin Rage, Shikwa, the Hydrake, and other powers that let you attack more than once with the same unit.

[I Hate Atlaga]

Hehe, I am correct, my brother is wrong. Thanx, Clarissmus.

[Divljan]

Does a mutated common Filth unit still count as a common unit? I would assume so (for example, shield of the hopeful hints that this is the case), but does the mutated unit count as a common for ALL purposes. Can events and abilities of other factions (e.g. Stun, Blazing Conscription, Counter Summon, Assassinate, etc.) that target common units target a mutated common unit?

[PePe QuiCoSE]

yup, they are Commons.
Bring on the pain!

[AGNASH]

1.Can I summon unit near my teammate's wall?

MIND CONTROL:choose a common unit on your side of the battlefield.......
2.Can I choose my teammate's side of the battlefield?

INTO DARKNESS:choose a opponent.if you have fewer unit on battlefield than opponent does...........
3.Is this statement means my side of the battlefield?or both me and my teammate's side of the battlefield?

[joepinion]

1.Can I summon unit near my teammate's wall?
Your teammate's wall is not a summoning spot for you. However, you can place your walls on your teammate's half of the battlefield.


MIND CONTROL:choose a common unit on your side of the battlefield.......
2.Can I choose my teammate's side of the battlefield?
Yes.


INTO DARKNESS:choose a opponent.if you have fewer unit on battlefield than opponent does.
3.Is this statement means my side of the battlefield?or both me and my teammate's side of the battlefield?
Yes, all over the whole battlefield.

Basically, after your starting set up, there is no difference between your half and your teammate's half. When the game says "your side" it means as opposed to your opponents' side.

[Someonelse]

Walls can only be placed on your side, except for SO vinewalls.

[AGNASH]

1.if i use sandstorm to move a enemy unit moves off of a space containing a Vine Wall,should the enemy unit roll a die?

2.can sandstorm move vine wall or wall?

[killercactus]

1.if i use sandstorm to move a enemy unit moves off of a space containing a Vine Wall,should the enemy unit roll a die?

2.can sandstorm move vine wall or wall?

1. You can attempt to move a unit on a VW with Sandstorm. The units controller rolls a die for VW damage as normal. If they fail the roll, the unit receives a wound and cannot be moved. You then roll for Sandstorm damage normally.

2. Sandstorm can only move Units. Walls are not Units.

[chardris77]

I'm sure this has been asked before, but remind me, if you kill a unit with cards under it, what order are cards placed in your magic?

[Tisroero]

An alternating and random one.

Or just flip the pile over.

Also available in flipping the unit over first and leaving it on top of the pile.

[chardris77]

An alternating and random one.

Or just flip the pile over.

Also available in flipping the unit over first and leaving it on top of the pile.

Personally, it makes sense that all of the cards are going to your pile at the same time, so you decide what the order is. Is what you said the official word?

[thenightsshadow]

Personally, it makes sense that all of the cards are going to your pile at the same time, so you decide what the order is. Is what you said the official word?

I've been told before that what you said is the official word: you can place them in any order you wish.

[Ryujin]

Can you switch mutations on a frozen mutant?

[Quintaton16]

I would say yes. The rules on Summoning Mutations are not part of the special abilities of any Mutation, but are covered by the Filth Rules Card. There's no reason a Freeze would stop those rules from working.

[AGNASH]

if a unit is destroyed or discarded by my card's special ability,the unit will be placed on top of my magic pile or discard pile?

[XPD]

if a unit is destroyed or discarded by my card's special ability,the unit will be placed on top of my magic pile or discard pile?

If you activated it yes, but I think there is an exception with trample if your opponent activates the move. I think the basic rule is if the card is under your control and it causes a card to be destroyed or discarded it goes to your magic pile or discard respectively

[killercactus]

if a unit is destroyed or discarded by my card's special ability,the unit will be placed on top of my magic pile or discard pile?

That depends completely on whether the unit was destroyed or discarded. If the unit is destroyed by an ability or event you control (i.e. Trample, Assassinate, Dark Sacrifice), it goes to your magic pile. If the unit is discarded by an ability or event you control (Fear, Into Darkness), it goes to your discard pile.

As for swapping Mutes on a frozen guy, I believe the consensus currently is that yes, you can swap, but the new mutant is still under Freeze.

[bahk]

So let's say a bender takes my mutant, and then I play Heretic's Rebuke on that same mutant. The filth rules say I may normally exchange mutations by returning the one on the field to my hand, but the event itself simply says to place the mutation on top of the unit I take control of. Does the old mutation return to my hand, or am I going to end up with a 3 card stack mutant?

[thenightsshadow]

If you Heretic's Rebuke a mutant, you will indeed exchange mutations since you take control of that common before putting the Mutation on top, and as per the mutation rules, you'll exchange mutations.

[Sauam]

Since there isn't any book yet, I'll ask here.
(will re-post in their book once it's out)

Rune Mage
How does it interacts with ability like Krusk's Sandstorm, or Kyder's Mage Push? So as long as Rune Mage begins adjacent to wall, I can activates 1 time for it's movement, and another time with Sandstorm/Mage Push?

(Will add more question soon...)

[XPD]

Since there isn't any book yet, I'll ask here.
(will re-post in their book once it's out)

Rune Mage
How does it interacts with ability like Krusk's Sandstorm, or Kyder's Mage Push? So as long as Rune Mage begins adjacent to wall, I can activates 1 time for it's movement, and another time with Sandstorm/Mage Push?

(Will add more question soon...)

I think you can only use it once. When the card says "instead of moving with this Rune Mage" I think it works like instead of attacking effects. You need to use up one of your 3 movement actions to trigger it. Sandstorm and Mage Push don't give the unit extra movement actions but force the unit to move.

[Barliman]

Rune Mage
How does it interacts with ability like Krusk's Sandstorm, or Kyder's Mage Push? So as long as Rune Mage begins adjacent to wall, I can activates 1 time for it's movement, and another time with Sandstorm/Mage Push?
No. Siphon happens during its controller's Movement Phase, as a voluntary substitution for the RM's movement. It does not happen during opponents' turns, when opponents force movement upon it.

Good question for the FAQ.

[Sauam]

Thanks guys, but...


I think you can only use it once. When the card says "instead of moving with this Rune Mage" I think it works like instead of attacking effects. You need to use up one of your 3 movement actions to trigger it. Sandstorm and Mage Push don't give the unit extra movement actions but force the unit to move.

I really don't think there is anything to do with "extra movement action" here. Movement is quite different from attacking. Firstly because attacking only occurs during attack phrase, but moving in general is anytime. Secondly, Rune Mage did not use the phrase "instead of moving normally" like DD's Miner.

Although I understand Summoner Wars might be going through some wording change, or not really... So I'm not sure if this whole "normally" phrase are even going to make any different down the road.



No. Siphon happens during its controller's Movement Phase, as a voluntary substitution for the RM's movement. It does not happen during opponents' turns, when opponents force movement upon it.

Good question for the FAQ.

I was actually talking about during the controller's own turn. Such as using Rune Mage in DD or SG (which I did). So more like a question about controller forcing RM's to move once again after it activates the first time.

---

Were there suppose to be the phrase "once per turn" on the Rune Mage? There is room for it... So if not, it just makes me think I can activates this more than once via other means. Mage Push, Sandstorm, Tele-Blast... etc?

[killercactus]

I've asked the same question and not gotten an answer yet.

I want to find a way for it to not work. Sticking a Rune Mage by a wall and then using Sorgwen and a Controller to steal 3 magic is just evil.

[Barliman]

I was actually talking about during the controller's own turn. Such as using Rune Mage in DD or SG (which I did). So more like a question about controller forcing RM's to move once again after it activates the first time.
Oh, yes. Mercenaries. This question just got a lot more interesting.

I was thinking that "normal movement" would rule out movement caused by abilities and events, but here it just says "instead of moving with this Rune Mage", so I would say that, playing it as it reads, the RM ability triggers from those other movements as well!

As long as they are after the start of the Movement Phase, that is. So that would exclude Chant of Haste since it happens in the Event Phase, but would include Sin-Sin's Charm, Telekinetic Blast, Knock Around, Sandstorm, and Mage Push (when done at the right time).

Absolutely FAQ material here!

[killercactus]

I believe that abilities that mention moving, not moving, or instead of moving "during the movement phase" refer ONLY to normal movement, i.e. one of your three movements during the movement phase.

That by no means is official though - just what I think.

[XPD]

Although I understand Summoner Wars might be going through some wording change, or not really... So I'm not sure if this whole "normally" phrase are even going to make any different down the road.



Just wanted to give out the update:

http://blagog.com/2012/03/08/changes-in-the-starter-set-units/

[Barliman]

I believe that abilities that mention moving, not moving, or instead of moving "during the movement phase" refer ONLY to normal movement, i.e. one of your three movements during the movement phase.

That by no means is official though - just what I think.

Rune Mages don't mention when their ability happens, just that they have to begin the Movement Phase adjacent to an enemy wall to be able to use it. I'm sure the intention was to be during the Movement Phase, but as written, a good case can be made for these other applications.

[killercactus]

Rune Mages don't mention when their ability happens, just that they have to begin the Movement Phase adjacent to an enemy wall to be able to use it. I'm sure the intention was to be during the Movement Phase, but as written, a good case can be made for these other applications.

It says "If this RM begins its Movement Phase adjacent to an opponents wall, instead of moving with this RM..."

The use of "with" seems to imply to me that we're talking about that movement phase the RM is currently in. It's not the clearest thing in the world, but it feels to me like that's what it means.

Comparing that to Trample, which doesn't specify anything and is meant to activate at other times during the turn, I feel pretty confident about it.

[bahk]

If you Heretic's Rebuke a mutant, you will indeed exchange mutations since you take control of that common before putting the Mutation on top, and as per the mutation rules, you'll exchange mutations.

So if you swap the mutations after retaking control, I assume the rules still apply that you reduce the new summon's cost by the amount of the one you're replacing?
Also, what would happen in a filth vs filth match and you take their mutation? Do you replace it like normal then put their mutant back into your hand?

[Barliman]

Yes, and yes.

[Gartch]

Does Krung wild swing allow him to attack both a unit and a vine wall if the attacked unit on the VW are on the same space?
On one hand rules say unit in the same space than a VW is considered adjacent to it but on the other hand rules say a unit cannot attack both a VW and a unit on the same space:confused:

Thank you for your answer

[thenightsshadow]

I'm trying to recall how the syntax works, but as far as I can tell, Wild Swing can't hit both the Unit and the Vine Wall.

Similar to Violet's attack or Fire Drake's Breath of Flame, I guess.

[munky]

What happens when Maelena rolls a 2 and a 4 against Baldar?

[Barliman]

Does Krung wild swing allow him to attack both a unit and a vine wall if the attacked unit on the VW are on the same space?
On one hand rules say unit in the same space than a VW is considered adjacent to it but on the other hand rules say a unit cannot attack both a VW and a unit on the same space:confused:

Thank you for your answer

The fact that Units normally must attack only a Vine Wall or a Unit on top of it is moot here. Most Units can only attack 1 card at a time, but Krung's ability allows him to break that rule. In fact, if activated his attack must affect every card adjacent to him. If he is adjacent to a VW he is adjacent to a Unit on top of it as well, so both would be affected.

If Krung himself is on a VW and he Wild Swings an adjacent Unit, the VW would also feel its effects.

[Barliman]

What happens when Maelena rolls a 2 and a 4 against Baldar?
From the FAQ (http://www.plaidhatgames.com/sum_downloads.html):
Q: Does Maelena have to do damage to a Card in order to inflict the automatic wound caused by her BURNING BLADE?
A: No. The Card Maelena is attacking always takes the automatic wound from Burning Blade, even if Maelena doesnʼt inflict any wounds on her roll.

[chardris77]

The fact that Units normally must attack only a Vine Wall or a Unit on top of it is moot here. Most Units can only attack 1 card at a time, but Krung's ability allows him to break that rule. In fact, if activated his attack must affect every card adjacent to him. If he is adjacent to a VW he is adjacent to a Unit on top of it as well, so both would be affected.

If Krung himself is on a VW and he Wild Swings an adjacent Unit, the VW would also feel its effects.

The fire drake MUST affect all the cards within three straightline spaces, though, right?

[Barliman]

The fire drake MUST affect all the cards within three straightline spaces, though, right?
That is correct.

[Gartch]

The fact that Units normally must attack only a Vine Wall or a Unit on top of it is moot here. Most Units can only attack 1 card at a time, but Krung's ability allows him to break that rule. In fact, if activated his attack must affect every card adjacent to him. If he is adjacent to a VW he is adjacent to a Unit on top of it as well, so both would be affected.

If Krung himself is on a VW and he Wild Swings an adjacent Unit, the VW would also feel its effects.

Thank for the answer Barliman

[AGNASH]

there are some cards under the reaper, when i destroy the reaper, the cards under the reaper will place to my magic pile or discard pile?

[thenightsshadow]

Where the Reaper goes, the cards underneath goes.

It's a handy little saying I have. When you destroy the Reaper, the Reaper and all cards underneath it (minus any Vine Walls, since they don't count towards the Reaper's ability) go to your Magic Pile in whatever order you choose.

[yokumo]

Don't fear the reaper. :)

[Mookinizer]

I have a question, is there a particular limit to how many dice your meant to roll for a given attack? I was originally thinking the limit was five (since each core set gives you five dice) but with the new release of the filth faction (particularly with the Abomination), I'm thinking that maybe there isn't one.

[Dustin]

I have a question, is there a particular limit to how many dice your meant to roll for a given attack? I was originally thinking the limit was five (since each core set gives you five dice) but with the new release of the filth faction (particularly with the Abomination), I'm thinking that maybe there isn't one.
There isn't one unless the card says so, like the Abomination example you provided.

[Sauam]

I have a question, is there a particular limit to how many dice your meant to roll for a given attack? ...

Rallul with fist full of dice says hi ;)

ps: both fists

[Sauam]

Since there isn't any book yet, I'll ask here.
(will re-post in their book once it's out)

Rune Mage
How does it interacts with ability like Krusk's Sandstorm, or Kyder's Mage Push? So as long as Rune Mage begins adjacent to wall, I can activates 1 time for it's movement, and another time with Sandstorm/Mage Push?

(Will add more question soon...)

Hmm... still waiting for this. I hope the book will arrives soon. It's vastly important to my DD deck :)

Anyways, here is my second question:

SE Hunter
What happen when I have no empty space adjacent to my wall, can I still use Hunter's ability to summon her adjacent to my other SE unit? (I guess my question is, rule wise, am I still allow to summon if I have no empty wall space?)

[thenightsshadow]

The rule, if I recall correctly, is that you can summon a Hunter next to a Unit, even if you have no Wall. So, it should follow that if your Wall is blocked, you can summon a Hunter next to a Unit.

[joepinion]

Yeah hopefully we get an official confirmation about this Rune Mage soon.. I really hope that you can't trigger it with Controllers/Kynder/Sandstorm/Sin-Sin. Otherwise they're almost a must-build in those four decks and they'll be a huge pain to play against constantly, being able to steal 2 magic per turn. Plus Kynder is already a top-5 champ without this ability.

My logic behind not allowing it is that all those powers say "move the chosen unit up to 1/2 spaces"... which to me sounds like very specific direction on what the movement looks like. Once again, I ask, has anyone ever used Kynder to Tunnel a Miner?

[killercactus]

My logic behind not allowing it is that all those powers say "move the chosen unit up to 1/2 spaces"... which to me sounds like very specific direction on what the movement looks like. Once again, I ask, has anyone ever used Kynder to Tunnel a Miner?

I think the right question is "has anyone ever actually USED a Miner?". The wording on Miners is so weird anyway that I have no idea how that interacts.

I've talked about what I think this should be elsewhere. I don't think any of these should work, but Kynder is the only one that has a shot because he can use his power during the movement phase. I'm really worried more about Controllers abusing this, because of Sorgwen.

[Barliman]

SE Hunter
What happen when I have no empty space adjacent to my wall, can I still use Hunter's ability to summon her adjacent to my other SE unit? (I guess my question is, rule wise, am I still allow to summon if I have no empty wall space?)

Certainly! The Hunter card makes no requirement of having an empty Wall space, or even of having a Wall at all.

(It's true that the rules say you have to have an empty Wall space to summon, but they also say you may only summon next to Walls. It's understood that most rules will be overridden by abilities at times. The requirement to have an empty Wall space is a consequence of the requirement to summon next to a Wall, and since Shadow Step waives the use of a Wall, the requirement for an empty Wall space is moot. In other words, play it as written. :))

[Barliman]

Once again, I ask, has anyone ever used Kynder to Tunnel a Miner?

I don't think that is allowed. The Tunnel movement is done in place of normal movement, and Mage Push is not normal movement, but ability-activated movement. Official confirmation of this interpretation is desired, of course.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

I think Kynder can't trigger Tunnel because it says "instead of moving normally" which kinda implies it's your normal movement action and not some weird broken-with-too-much-life champion ability.

Looking at Rune Mage scan, I'd say that "normally" should go there (like Tunnel) but didn't fit and was not in. Also it says "instead of moving WITH this Rune Mage" not just moving the Rune Mage, so I guess the wording strongly implies it's not activated by other forced movements.

edit: I swear when i started typing barliman's second response was not there!

[joepinion]

I think Kynder can't trigger Tunnel because it says "instead of moving normally" which kinda implies it's your normal movement action and not some weird broken-with-too-much-life champion ability.

Looking at Rune Mage scan, I'd say that "normally" should go there (like Tunnel) but didn't fit and was not in. Also it says "instead of moving WITH this Rune Mage" not just moving the Rune Mage, so I guess the wording strongly implies it's not activated by other forced movements.

This is what makes the most sense to me. killercactus mentioned in another thread that Kynder can activate Lun's Gem of Calling via Mage Push. But there's a language distinction there. Lun's card says "after moving Lun" while the Rune Mage says "after moving with..." as you said. The "with" to me means instead of the Rune Mage moving himself, you can Siphon, but you can NOT Siphon when someone/thing else is moving the Rune Mage. In the latter case you're not moving "with" the Rune Mage, you're just moving the Rune Mage.

[Sauam]

Thanks guys for the clairication on SE Hunter. Its good to know in case of situation like that arise.

As for Rune Mage ability. I hope PHG will just FAQ it down the road, saying it is only meant for "Normal" movement. Or at least FAQ it into "Once per turn"

Because otherwise Rune Mage in Bender, DD or even SG will be very broken.... I've tried. It was ugly when RM gets to siphon like crazy.

[Sauam]

I cannot find books for the Filth, here goes:

On the card itself, it said that Filth Mutation are affect by any ability and/or event that affects commons.

Now does that means only when the Mutation on the field? or everywhere (IE: discard pile, magic pile, hand) Because if its the latter, can DD player use Illusionary Warrior to fetch a Filth common, then IW once again to fetch a Mutation on top of it?

This happen to one of my recent game when I'm testing out my DD Wall Drain build.

[thenightsshadow]

That...is a very good question.

[killercactus]

I cannot find books for the Filth, here goes:

On the card itself, it said that Filth Mutation are affect by any ability and/or event that affects commons.

Now does that means only when the Mutation on the field? or everywhere (IE: discard pile, magic pile, hand) Because if its the latter, can DD player use Illusionary Warrior to fetch a Filth common, then IW once again to fetch a Mutation on top of it?

This happen to one of my recent game when I'm testing out my DD Wall Drain build.

Mutations only say they can be "summoned" onto Filth Common Units. Illusionary Warrior isn't summoning the Mutation, so I don't think that works.

The better question is whether you can play IW and just place a Mutation onto the board. I'm not sure the Mutation rules say anything for or against placing it somewhere - just that it can be summoned only onto a Common Filth Unit. I'm pretty sure the answer is No there, too though.

[Freddy Finger]

So when am I suppose to see the official rules?? FAQ?

[Barliman]

So when am I suppose to see the official rules?? FAQ?

Since the rules card is now in several people's hands, it should be OK to post the actual text:


The Filth Faction introduces a new kind of Unit card to Summoner Wars - The Mutation. When summoning a Mutation, it must be placed on top of a Common Filth Unit you control. The Values and Special Abilities on the Mutation card override those present on its host Unit. If a Filth player summons a new Mutation onto a Unit that already has a Mutation, the previous Mutation Card is returned to the player’s hand, and the new Mutation takes immediate effect. When summoning a new Mutation onto a Unit that already has a Mutation, reduce the new Mutation's Summon Cost by a number equal to the Summon Cost of the Mutation it is replacing. You cannot reduce a Mutation's Summon Cost below 0. When placing a new Mutation on a Mutated Unit, move all Wound Markers over to the new Mutation. All Abilities and Events that affect Common Units also affect Mutated Units. When building a custom Summoner Wars deck, Mutations can be added in place of Common Units and/or Champion Units. You can never have more than 1 copy of a specific Mutation in a deck.

[Barliman]

On the card itself, it said that Filth Mutation are affect by any ability and/or event that affects commons.

Now does that means only when the Mutation on the field? or everywhere (IE: discard pile, magic pile, hand) Because if its the latter, can DD player use Illusionary Warrior to fetch a Filth common, then IW once again to fetch a Mutation on top of it?

I agree that this is a great question.

I also agree that IW is not summoning, so you can not use it to place a Mutation on top of a Filth (or any other) Common.

I will add to that the following: you cannot use IW to fetch a Mutation from your Magic Pile:

When placing a new Mutation on a Mutated Unit, move all Wound Markers over to the new Mutation. All Abilities and Events that affect Common Units also affect Mutated Units.
Notice that you did not quote the rule correctly above. It does not say that abilities and events that affect Commons also affect Mutations. They affect Mutated Units. A "Mutated Unit" is a Common unit with a Mutation on top of it. There is no "on top of" link that binds cards together in a Magic Pile, therefore Illusionary Warrior cannot be used to pull a Mutation out.

[Sauam]

^ Oh crap, how can I miss that?

Good job Barliman, you've solved my question and proved to me that Summoner Wars are indeed carefully ruled/written... almost all the time (still waiting on Rune Mage's ruling).

[largelylegit]

Hi all, a quick noob question:

if a unit has a special ability that let's it perform a second attack, does that count as one of the three attacks for that turn?

I believe the rules state that you may attack with up to 3 units, as opposed to 3 attacks total... so if for example my champion can attack every adjacent opponent... I suspect that I could attack say... 3 enemies with that champion, and then attack with two other units... right?

Thanks in advance.

[joepinion]

Yep, you got it. (No, additional attacks from 1 unit do not count towards your other 2 available attacks per turn.)

[largelylegit]

Final question... if one of my units dies due to a wound marker from my opponents vine wall, does my unit go into his magic pile as usual?

We assumed so, but thought we should double check.

[Ranior]

Final question... if one of my units dies due to a wound marker from my opponents vine wall, does my unit go into his magic pile as usual?

We assumed so, but thought we should double check.

Yes. If a vine wall kills a unit, the player controlling the Vine Wall gets the magic.

[largelylegit]

If I was to destroy a regular wall... am I correct in thinking that it goes on their discard pile as opposed to my magic pile? I believe I read that a wall is a special event card, as opposed to a unit.

[thenightsshadow]

That's the beauty of destroying a Wall, actually. You get it as Magic once you defeat it. Same thing goes for Ice Walls.

[JYoder]

Can an opponent's Controller or Sandstorm use Lun's ability against him after moving him and playing 1 for Gem of Calling?

[thenightsshadow]

Lun's controller is the only one able to use the ability, much like many other abilities out there.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

wow, nice loop in wording there.

[JYoder]

Lun's controller is the only one able to use the ability, much like many other abilities out there.

Well, of course, only the owner of a unit can use it's inherent ability. But for Lun, it simply says it may trigger after he is moved for the cost of 1 magic, so your argument doesn't make sense to me. Or am I missing something?

[killercactus]

Well, of course, only the owner of a unit can use it's inherent ability. But for Lun, it simply says it may trigger after he is moved for the cost of 1 magic, so your argument doesn't make sense to me. Or am I missing something?

TNS is correct. The best analogy I can come up with off the top of my head is Magos. If my opponent controls Magos and I draw cards for my draw phase, can I draw until I have 7 cards in my hand? No, because I don't control Magos.

The same is true for Lun. If my opponent controls Lun and I move him, can I place a Common Unit using Gem of Calling? No, because I don't control Lun.

It has everything to do with Lun's ability (and Magos') saying "when you move...", as "you" refers to Lun's owner. Note how this is different from say, a SO Hunter, whose ability kicks in whenever it moves, regardless of who is doing the moving.

Now, if you had Kaeseeall and took control of Lun through Blazing Conscription and moved him during the turn, then using Gem of Calling would be fine, because you control him.

[joepinion]

I think that "you" in Lun's wording is still referring to Lun's controller, not Lun's mover.

I think the reasoning behind Lun's wording is that if it said, "after Lun moves you may..." you could argue that Lun's controller could actually use Gem of Calling after Sandstorm, etc. But the way it's worded ("after moving Lun, you may..."), it only works for Lun's controller if Lun's controller moves Lun.

Perhaps the least confusing language would've been a Rune Mage-like "after moving with Lun, you may..." but that would have precluded you from using Kynder to trigger Gem of Calling before the movement phase.

I can see where you're coming from due to Smasher's Sluggish text, which seems to talk directly to the opponent... However I think that's just a case of an early card not being totally consistent with the rest of the game as the game grew up.

[killercactus]

I ninja'ed Joe, and he ninja'ed my edit - LOL

And I think Smashers are a different story altogether. They are worded purposely so that both yours and your opponents attacks always succeed. The card isn't talking directly to anyone - it refers to all players, much like the SO Hunter.

[thenightsshadow]

Heh, I'm only someone that knows the rulings based on implied and written card text. You guys do a better job explaining it, much more so than I can. Thanks for the backup.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

does rider overrides summon the night?
im pretty sure it doesn't, but...

[thenightsshadow]

Summon the Night trumps Rider, unfortunately.

[joepinion]

I thought I read somewhere that negatives trump positives. Maybe I'm crazy though.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

cool, happy confirmation.

[JYoder]

Thanks for your replies, KC and Joe. But I'll play devil's advocate just a bit more...

Of course, I agree about Magos or any unit I don't control -- there is nothing allowing their ability to anyone other than the owner.

But if my opponent has Lun, and I cannot trigger his ability by moving him, then you must also be saying if I move my opponent's Vermin or Khan Queso, then I cannot trigger Plague.

If that's the case, then it's *very* good to know as I've seen that played wrong on Vassal, including a recent Ranior / Clarissimus tourney match that most likely determined the game.

So either...

1) By extension, the Controller cannot activate an enemy's Plague ability.

2) Or there's something different between Plague and Gem of Calling that I'm missing. (Both use the word "you.")

However, if there's no difference, yet if the word "you" refers to the owner, then should the owner of Lun be the one to decide if Gem of Calling triggers when an enemy Controller moves him?

Otherwise, I see no reason why Lun's ability shouldn't have the option to trigger... I just don't know who gets to choose. (Unless, of course, you are indeed saying Plague also should not trigger, in which case, the point is moot, and I'd like to know if that's an official ruling.)

[killercactus]

Thanks for your replies, KC and Joe. But I'll play devil's advocate just a bit more...

Of course, I agree about Magos or any unit I don't control -- there is nothing allowing their ability to anyone other than the owner.

But if my opponent has Lun, and I cannot trigger his ability by moving him, then you must also be saying if I move my opponent's Vermin or Khan Queso, then I cannot trigger Plague.

If that's the case, then it's *very* good to know as I've seen that played wrong on Vassal, including a recent Ranior / Clarissimus tourney match that most likely determined the game.

So either...

1) By extension, the Controller cannot activate an enemy's Plague ability.

2) Or there's something different between Plague and Gem of Calling that I'm missing. (Both use the word "you.")

However, if there's no difference, yet if the word "you" refers to the owner, then should the owner of Lun be the one to decide if Gem of Calling triggers when an enemy Controller moves him?

Otherwise, I see no reason why Lun's ability shouldn't have the option to trigger... I just don't know who gets to choose. (Unless, of course, you are indeed saying Plague also should not trigger, in which case, the point is moot, and I'd like to know if that's an official ruling.)

Scratch that

[Sauam]

http://www.plaidhatgames.com/images/sw/cards/khanqueso.gif

http://www.plaidhatgames.com/images/sw/cards/DD_Lun.gif

[joepinion]

KC, by your logic, it sounds like Lun's controller should be able to activate Gem of Calling when someone else moves him.

[killercactus]

Sorry about that I was wrong. Neither gem of calling nor plague should activate when the unit is moved by the opponent. They're worded the same way after all - thanks, Sauam.

[Sauam]

I was actually agreeing with you Killer, Both KQ and Lun should be activated once moved.

The difference is KQ is a "must" and Lun is optional.

KQ is activated but only KQ owner gets to roll the die. I think that's what confusing people... the mover are activating Plague, just it won't always be the mover that rolls. Same case is true for Fear ability in regards who rolling the die.

edit: If my Magic:TG days taught me anything, the word "YOU" always refers to the owner. If an ability are meant for everyone to activates, it would say something along the line of TO's Freeze... Where it clearly says "any players"

[PePe QuiCoSE]

really? wow, I was pretty sure plague activated if opponent moved it.

[joepinion]

If anyone has the cards handy, please double-check the physical cards; as we know there are sometimes small differences from the digital versions.

[Sauam]

If anyone has the cards handy, please double-check the physical cards; as we know there are sometimes small differences from the digital versions.
Showing off my new Mayday premium sleeves :)
It's the second edition, now it's clearer and easier to fit SW cards!
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8295/photo1av.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/268/photo1av.jpg/)

[killercactus]

I really don't think that either ability activates. I don't see how it's different from Magos - feels the same to me. Only Magos' owner gets to draw extra cards when they draw. Only Lun's owner gets to use Gem when they move him, and only KQ's owner gets to Plague when they move him.

Not official by any means - just what I think.

[JYoder]

So how do we go about getting an official ruling? Is this forum monitored by Colby and company?

[killercactus]

So how do we go about getting an official ruling? Is this forum monitored by Colby and company?

Sometimes - more likely Phoenixio will see it and ask.

Maybe one day I'll be a rules team guy.... til then I just have to wait and see.

[Phoenixio]

So how do we go about getting an official ruling? Is this forum monitored by Colby and company?

Well, some playtesters like myself do read some parts of the forum and chime in during rule debates. I do prefer the Books sections for this, as this question dump is just a mess of random stuff nobody will ever read again. I actually had to search for the question, since other things came up since. And I'll admit some very dedicated players that lurk around here now make me nearly obsolete most of the time except in those rare FAQ cases in which I have to ask.

And it's pretty much what I'll do for this one. My first impression is that Vermins and Lun do trigger if they are moved by Controllers or any other means your opponent can use. However, there is NO doubt that it's still the Vermin or Lun's controller that has to use the ability.

I'll however admit that, after reading the cards over and over again, there is indeed some subtlety in the sentences. One could interpret it so that it has to be the controller of those units that has to move them so their ability triggers. I'm pretty sure it's case number 1, but I'll still ask so we are 100% sure.

Oh, and if you have such unanswered questions hidden on the forum, just PM me or post them in the Books section (where I read everything).

[Sauam]

There is difference between "After moving" from "After you moves"

In this case here, both KQ and Lun just read "After moving". It never specify who needs to move them. If these abilities were meant to be activates only after the owner move them. It would of said "Once per turn, after you moves Lun, you may... etc etc"

Its actually quite clear in this case here, I really don't believe they are meant for only the owner to move them.

Additionally, I remember this question were brought up in Krusk's Sandstorm ability. In which case Plague were to be taken affect even after Sandstorm moves them... So there's that too.

[thenightsshadow]

I thought I read somewhere that negatives trump positives. Maybe I'm crazy though.

It's more along the lines that Summon the Night sets the limit to 1. Rider, Greater Flight, etc. don't increase the limit, just allow additional movement past the original. Therefore, Summon the Night trumps Rider, Greater Flight, etc.


Thanks for your replies, KC and Joe. But I'll play devil's advocate just a bit more...

Of course, I agree about Magos or any unit I don't control -- there is nothing allowing their ability to anyone other than the owner.

But if my opponent has Lun, and I cannot trigger his ability by moving him, then you must also be saying if I move my opponent's Vermin or Khan Queso, then I cannot trigger Plague.

If that's the case, then it's *very* good to know as I've seen that played wrong on Vassal, including a recent Ranior / Clarissimus tourney match that most likely determined the game.

So either...

1) By extension, the Controller cannot activate an enemy's Plague ability.

2) Or there's something different between Plague and Gem of Calling that I'm missing. (Both use the word "you.")

However, if there's no difference, yet if the word "you" refers to the owner, then should the owner of Lun be the one to decide if Gem of Calling triggers when an enemy Controller moves him?

Otherwise, I see no reason why Lun's ability shouldn't have the option to trigger... I just don't know who gets to choose. (Unless, of course, you are indeed saying Plague also should not trigger, in which case, the point is moot, and I'd like to know if that's an official ruling.)

According to written and implied ruling based on words alone (read: not official), Lun's Gem of Calling and the Vermin/Khan Queso's Plague are triggered by the controller of that card. The owner of Lun gets to decide whether or not he pulls a Unit to him or not.

[killercactus]

There is difference between "After moving" from "After you moves"

In this case here, both KQ and Lun just read "After moving". It never specify who needs to move them. If these abilities were meant to be activates only after the owner move them. It would of said "Once per turn, after you moves Lun, you may... etc etc"

Its actually quite clear in this case here, I really don't believe they are meant for only the owner to move them.

Additionally, I remember this question were brought up in Krusk's Sandstorm ability. In which case Plague were to be taken affect even after Sandstorm moves them... So there's that too.

See, I feel like there's a difference between "After moving Lun, you may..." and "After Lun moves, you may...". I feel as though the first one implies that the owner has to do the moving, and the second one says that anyone can. If I'm gonna get all linguistic, "you" is the subject of the first sentence, and Lun is the direct object, therefore it refers to "you" moving Lun. In the second sentence, Lun is the subject, and therefore refers to Lun moving in any capacity.

I still point at Magos as an example which supports my line of thinking, and at the SO Hunter, Shaman, Mugglug, etc who are worded differently and whose abilities always trigger.

But, if this ruling goes as you guys are suggesting, that means Hawk's birdie can be used here, Kalal can Gilmpse, and Phantoms might even get to Possess (though they are worded just a little differently, but I think still fall into the same bucket).

And I thought in te Sandstorm case, we were talking about Sandstorming your own KQ.

[Barliman]

Let me make several points about this discussion.

1. The subjects of gerunds.

There is difference between "After moving" from "After you moves"

In this case here, both KQ and Lun just read "After moving". It never specify who needs to move them.
Sorry, Sauam, but you are mistaken. This is one of those subtleties with the English language that's hard to pick up on. "Moving", a gerund or present participle, does have a subject, specified in the rest of the sentence: "After moving Khan Queso, you must roll a die." If it were a past participle, it would be passive voice, with no implied subject: "After Khan Queso is moved, you must roll a die" would have the interpretation you think the actual sentence has. Switching the order might make it clearer: "You must roll a die after moving Khan Queso."

"She may eat desert after eating dinner." "After reading the book, he must write a book report." Etc. In any such sentence, the subject of the main clause is also the subject of the present participle.


2. The use of "after" in SWs unit cards.

Every unit whose ability is triggered after attacking says "After attacking with X".

Units whose ability is triggered after moving say "After moving X" or "After moving with X". None of them says "After you move X" or "After X is moved".

It is my opinion that there is no intended difference of meaning between "After moving X" and "After moving with X". The latter phrase is just used because that is similar to the phrasing used for attack triggers.

(Saying "After attacking X" is not used because that makes X the object of the attack, not the subject -- two very different things. But it's not that way with movement: whether you think of it as the player moving X, or X moving itself, it's the same thing.)


3. My take on the issue.

a) I believe that, the way they are worded, all "After moving (with) X" abilities are only triggered by the controller, not by forced movement by another player.

b) But, as they are worded, they can also be triggered by forced movement by other units with the same controller.

c) I agree that this could lead to potential abuse, as pointed out in the case of Rune Mages.

d) Therefore, I am in favor of the FAQ specifying that all "After moving (with) X" abilities only refer to normal movement in the Movement Phase, by the controlling player, as its own movement, not movement forced by other units.

[joepinion]

Yeah, we can argue language all we want; what we really need is an official ruling and a FAQ entry.

[DrLivingston]

If a Controller moves someone off a Swamp Wall, does the moved figure have to roll a 4+ to move?

[thenightsshadow]

Yes, the the Vine Wall controller rolls the die. If the moved Unit dies because of that, the Vine Wall controller still gets the Magic.

[Sauam]

@Killer, @ Barilman.

Very interesting. Learn something new everyday.
Regardless, I do believe this needs to be solve. In fact, I just stumble upon another one of these. It's Demon Hands (see below)

So does that means everytime I move it, it gets to activates? Like if I move it with Controller?

Seem like this whole "movement" ordeal needs to be solve or things going to get very abusable. The more I think about this, the more I feel Barilman is on the right track. Just faq everything as moving on it's own only, otherwise this can get pretty nutty pretty fast.

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/3627/photo2pm.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/835/photo2pm.jpg/)

[thenightsshadow]

I was always under the impression it was "at the beginning of the movement phase". I guess not, but wow.

[cmgames]

New question from a new visitor to the site:

Is there a handy reference (PDF or jpg or some such) that matches the Faction name to the icon for all current Factions?

~Z

[JYoder]

Wow, this movement bit really opened a can of worms.


Seem like this whole "movement" ordeal needs to be solve or things going to get very abusable. The more I think about this, the more I feel Barilman is on the right track. Just faq everything as moving on it's own only, otherwise this can get pretty nutty pretty fast.

But then Kynder couldn't trigger Lun's ability, which is part of their intended synergy. Same with Controllers, Sandstorm, and JE's Chant of Haste on allied mercs like Demon Hands and KQ.

It only seems sticky to me when it's possible to move an opponent's cards, as I thought I read you could trigger Plague on your opponent's card, which prompted my thought process, but maybe I imagined that.

Anyway, it'll be very interesting to see what the FAQ says.

[Barliman]

But then Kynder couldn't trigger Lun's ability, which is part of their intended synergy. Same with Controllers, Sandstorm, and JE's Chant of Haste on allied mercs like Demon Hands and KQ.
Good point. The FAQ answerers will need to weigh intended vs. unintended synergies, determine if there are any truly broken situations, and answer accordingly as the pros and cons are weighed.

[killercactus]

Wow, this movement bit really opened a can of worms.



But then Kynder couldn't trigger Lun's ability, which is part of their intended synergy. Same with Controllers, Sandstorm, and JE's Chant of Haste on allied mercs like Demon Hands and KQ.

It only seems sticky to me when it's possible to move an opponent's cards, as I thought I read you could trigger Plague on your opponent's card, which prompted my thought process, but maybe I imagined that.

Anyway, it'll be very interesting to see what the FAQ says.

Reading through the books of Vermin and KQ, once it was asked who gets the magic if an opposing player moves a Vermin and triggers Plague, and it was answered that the player that moves the Vermin gets the magic (by Phoenixio, a long time ago).

However, no one ever stopped to think if Plague is even supposed to trigger there and, regardless, that answer is incorrect, since the Vermin controller would definitely roll, and get the magic.

Demon Hands ha e the same wording, so they will follow whichever way this goes. Like TNS, I was thinking Pact was at the beginning of te movement phase, so that wording makes them very attractive with Benders.

As for my take on the moving issue, I've already stated it a bunch of times I guess between here as the Rune Mage discussion - "After/Before/When/Instead of moving (with) X, you may/must..." abilities should activate whenever that Units controller moves it. "During your movement phase, when/before/after/instead of moving (with) X, you may/must..." should activate whenever that Units controller moves a Unit during their movement phase, whether normally or through an ability (i.e. Kynder), though I could see that ruled as only working on "normal" movement. "After/Before/When X moves/is moved, you may..." abilities should activate whenever that Unit is moved by anyone for any reason, but that Units controller is the one who activates it.

Go English.

[Barliman]

Now that the PHG forums have been reorganized, I propose that we lock this thread. Rather than an endless thread with the same organization as a garbage dump, let's have: A) a separate thread for each question, with B) the topic of the question in its title. This would make it more useful for others to reference.

We should probably also have a sticky thread in the SWs Rules subforum explaining this policy, or whatever policy is decided on.

[killercactus]

I dont know a whole lot about forum management, bug I think separate threads take up a bunch of bandwidth, which is why the books and this thread are here.

I like the format where questions specific to a unit go in the Book, while other stuff gets its own thread or goes here.

On Heroscapers, this thread was born because some experienced users gave noobs a tough time for not searching out answers to their questions before they asked them, creating a new thread and taking up space for something that's already been dealt with. This thread allowed most of those questions to be "dumped" into one spot to avoid a million new threads. I think it's fine for that purpose, but as a community we should try to keep the questions to the books and search for answers before we ask questions in general.

[joepinion]

Right, the typical purpose of this thread (newbie questions) is great. The problem is we've fell into using this to argue about a few unresolved issues because those units' books aren't up yet.

[cmgames]

Right, the typical purpose of this thread (newbie questions) is great. The problem is we've fell into using this to argue about a few unresolved issues because those units' books aren't up yet.

Can anybody help me with my newbie question I asked a couple of days ago (post#451)?

~Z

[PePe QuiCoSE]

would have been handy if you quoted it :)


New question from a new visitor to the site:

Is there a handy reference (PDF or jpg or some such) that matches the Faction name to the icon for all current Factions?

~Z

And to answer that, no idea, but surely you can find something like that in the reference files they have made for the game over BGG (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/), either for the summoner wars entry or the Master Set.

[cmgames]

would have been handy if you quoted it :)



And to answer that, no idea, but surely you can find something like that in the reference files they have made for the game over BGG (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/), either for the summoner wars entry or the Master Set.

Thanks! Found something there.

~Z

[Barliman]

Right, the typical purpose of this thread (newbie questions) is great. The problem is we've fell into using this to argue about a few unresolved issues because those units' books aren't up yet.

Well, I'm not sure why newbies are better served by one long thread. I think that a separate thread for each question would help newbies do a better search for earlier answers to their questions, because the title of a thread is more likely to have a distillation of the key words involved. It also would make it faster to look over search results and know which posts to ignore, because they are asking different questions.

I agree about the need for new units' books, even if we don't have the official images for their cards. The cards' text and stats can be quoted at the top of the thread, in the meantime.

[joepinion]

The ones who are served are those who aren't going to search and are asking a really easy question that the first member who stops by can answer. (ie, What happens when a Guardian attacks a Smasher?) This thread is to avoid some new threads that would be made about stuff that's common sense or that there's already threads about.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

morale: we could use a quick question moderator!

[Barliman]

The ones who are served are those who aren't going to search and are asking a really easy question that the first member who stops by can answer. (ie, What happens when a Guardian attacks a Smasher?) This thread is to avoid some new threads that would be made about stuff that's common sense or that there's already threads about.

OK, that makes sense. Could the thread be retitled, though, or a new thread started? Something like "The Answer Line: Newbies Post Quick Questions Here". The current title "Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here!" makes it sound like this is the one spot where everyone should post all questions, and it's not well structured to help those who do search for answers.

[cmgames]

OK, that makes sense. Could the thread be retitled, though, or a new thread started? Something like "The Answer Line: Newbies Post Quick Questions Here". The current title "Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here!" makes it sound like this is the one spot where everyone should post all questions, and it's not well structured to help those who do search for answers.

Well, over in Heroscapers (where the Question Dump idea originated) there were a number of individuals who would get irate and tear into folks who didn't bother searching for answers before starting a new thread exactly like 5 others to ask the same question answered in those 5 and 50 other threads.

The Question Dump is exactly for those folks who don't bother searching first or (as was the case with me when I first started) who haven't yet figured out how the site is structured and how it works. It is a place for those questions that get asked repeatedly that the grumble-bunnies don't have to even visit so they don't get their panties in a bunch. Other folks, who don't mind answering the same questions over and over, can cruise the Question Dump in hopes of being helpful.

Perhaps this site (without all the history) doesn't need it, but in general it is a Good Thing, I think.

~Z

[airdroppers]

Summoning Surge


Okay, so I was pretty sure about this one before someone told me otherwise at a tournament.

If you have two cards in your discard pile and you play SS, does SS go into your discard pile and then you get 3 magic? Or do you play SS "on the table", take 2 magic and then SS goes into the discard?

[glenn3e]

Summoning Surge


Okay, so I was pretty sure about this one before someone told me otherwise at a tournament.

If you have two cards in your discard pile and you play SS, does SS go into your discard pile and then you get 3 magic? Or do you play SS "on the table", take 2 magic and then SS goes into the discard?

Yes you can, I do it all the time. It should work the same with Ret-Talus' Raise ability by allowing you to use stuff from your Magic Pile that you just used to Raise.

[thenightsshadow]

Summoning Surge

Okay, so I was pretty sure about this one before someone told me otherwise at a tournament.

If you have two cards in your discard pile and you play SS, does SS go into your discard pile and then you get 3 magic? Or do you play SS "on the table", take 2 magic and then SS goes into the discard?

It's the latter. If you have 2 cards in your Discard Pile, as per the FAQ, SS cannot count as one of the cards as part of its effect, so you take the 2 cards in the Discard Pile as part of your Magic Pile, then put SS in the Discard Pile.

Remember, there is an activation effect that Summoning Surge activates, and that must resolve before Summoning Surge goes to the Discard Pile. This is different than Chant of Negation, because the activation effect provides a lingering effect, for lack of better terms.


Yes you can, I do it all the time. It should work the same with Ret-Talus' Raise ability by allowing you to use stuff from your Magic Pile that you just used to Raise.

This is a different matter. Ret-Talus' ability triggers, giving an activation effect of paying 2 Magic. The resolution of paying that 2 Magic (remember that you now have those cards in your Discard Pile) is that you get to choose 1 Fallen Kingdom Common Unit in your Discard Pile etc. That's why that works, and Summoning Surge doesn't.

[glenn3e]

It's the latter. If you have 2 cards in your Discard Pile, as per the FAQ, SS cannot count as one of the cards as part of its effect, so you take the 2 cards in the Discard Pile as part of your Magic Pile, then put SS in the Discard Pile.

Remember, there is an activation effect that Summoning Surge activates, and that must resolve before Summoning Surge goes to the Discard Pile. This is different than Chant of Negation, because the activation effect provides a lingering effect, for lack of better terms.



This is a different matter. Ret-Talus' ability triggers, giving an activation effect of paying 2 Magic. The resolution of paying that 2 Magic (remember that you now have those cards in your Discard Pile) is that you get to choose 1 Fallen Kingdom Common Unit in your Discard Pile etc. That's why that works, and Summoning Surge doesn't.

Ugh, I've been playing Summoning Surge differently.:(

[Gartch]

Hello, I have 2 questions:

_When a player pays do discard a freeze (TO's event) it goes to which player discard? TO's player or the player who paid the cost to discard it (it may be important for summoning surge or DD's Meditate for example)

_If a CG's Climber move through a VW, does he need to roll to move off? Does his ability prevent him to move on VW?

Thank you for your answers :)

[Upshmuzza]

I'll try to answer, though I'm not 100%ly sure.


Hello, I have 2 questions:

_When a player pays do discard a freeze (TO's event) it goes to which player discard? TO's player or the player who paid the cost to discard it (it may be important for summoning surge or DD's Meditate for example)

It depends on when Freeze is discarded:

• If one of the two players pays 2 Magic to discard it, then Freeze is discarded by the player who paid the 2 Magic, which means, it goes to his/her discard pile.
• If the unit below Freeze is destroyed, then the player, who controlled the destroyed unit, will discard the Freeze to his/her discard pile.

Or in short: Usually your opponent does discard Freeze, if you (as the TO player) play it on one on his units, in both of the above mentioned cases.



_If a CG's Climber move through a VW, does he need to roll to move off? Does his ability prevent him to move on VW?


Since it's sill a movement, in my opinion, he has to roll.
His ability neither says "place", nor something that would prevent the VW's effect to trigger. I think the climber is especially useful against normal Walls, not so much against VWs.

Somebody correct me, if I'm wrong.
Hope this helps.

[killercactus]

I agree with the honorable Upshmuzza, except for the following:

When a unit with Freeze on top of it is destroyed, Freeze goes to the TO player's discard pile. Freeze says "if the unit this card is on top of is destroyed, discard this card.". Since this is Grognack's event, that sentence refers to him, or more specifically, his controller. When the magic is paid though, the paying player discards the card into their pile, because Freeze says that the player paying the magic discards it, and stuff you discard always goes to your pile. In short, it goes to whoever's pile that is doing the discarding.

Just a general reminder to everyone since we've been talking about it - it's always best to post your questions in the Book threads so that other players looking at the books for the same answer can find them there. This Freeze question would be great in the Book of Grognack, for instance (and it might already be there...)

[airdroppers]

Thanks for confirming Summoning Surge guys.

I knew I was playing it right. ;)

[cmgames]

Where do I find info about the cards in The Filth? And why isn't it listed in the Factions pull-down up above there?

~Z

[thenightsshadow]

Where do I find info about the cards in The Filth? And why isn't it listed in the Factions pull-down up above there?

~Z

The first question is basically, whenever the books get made. I'd make them (and other people would too) but I'm waiting for Phoenixio etc.

As for the factions tab, it's because the website's not updated to include the Filth and Mercenaries.

[Phoenixio]

Well, I'd make them, but it's VERY weird to create threads with the first post containing nearly nothing: no picture, no bio, no questions (in the case of Mutations and Commons which are fairly simple).

Well, there are pictures available somewhere in lower quality, but I don't want to go around and change all the url all the time when better quality ones arrive. With the quantity of Books I made, it'd be a little crazy if I started doing that. And like I said in some other posts, official pictures hosted here or on BGG are much more stable for the long-term, and they won't disappear suddenly.

I did create the Demagogue Book, so questions about the Filth, which usually are linked to the Mutation mechanic, could very well go there. I've put a copy of the Mutation rules over there too.

[Sauam]

I vote for having the book for each available unit for now, even without the picture. At least we don't have to spam everything into this one thread.

Additionally, when are we going to see the new FAQ? With new unit question being answer?... I am still waiting for some of the unit's ability to be clear (read: Rune Mage)

[Gartch]

Just a general reminder to everyone since we've been talking about it - it's always best to post your questions in the Book threads so that other players looking at the books for the same answer can find them there. This Freeze question would be great in the Book of Grognack, for instance (and it might already be there...)

Ah? Ok, but 6 months ago, each time a newbee (like me:) ) asked a question anywhere else than in this thread (Question Dump) he was firmly ordered to post only in this thread and never anywhere else. So I just followed the orders:D If they changed just let us (the newbies) know:)

If you want I can copy/past my question with answers in the book of Grognack

[Phoenixio]

Well, it largely depends on who saw your message first, as there are fans of both methods.

Now, with the new forum arrangement, the Dump and the Books are together, so it's easier to see it all. I still prefer the Books, since people can better search for answers without re-asking or looking through 85 pages of questions.

[cmgames]

In a 4-player game, is player #2 always the player opposite player #1? Or is player #2 the next opponent clockwise from player #1?

Opposite
* _ *
2 | | 1
4 | | 3
* -- *


or

* _ *
1 | | 2
3 | | 4
* -- *


Clockwise
* _ *
4 | | 1
2 | | 3
* -- *


or

* _ *
1 | | 2
3 | | 4
* -- *

Notice that the second layout is identical for both ways of doing it, but if player one is seated opposite to the diagram in the Rulebook, then the player order is different depending on the interpretation of the rulebook diagram.

~Z

[Anoir]

In a 4-player game, is player #2 always the player opposite player #1? Or is player #2 the next opponent clockwise from player #1?

Opposite
* _ *
2 | | 1
4 | | 3
* -- *


or

* _ *
1 | | 2
3 | | 4
* -- *


Clockwise
* _ *
4 | | 1
2 | | 3
* -- *


or

* _ *
1 | | 2
3 | | 4
* -- *

Notice that the second layout is identical for both ways of doing it, but if player one is seated opposite to the diagram in the Rulebook, then the player order is different depending on the interpretation of the rulebook diagram.

~Z

How my friends and I play it is the person who goes second is the opponent who rolled second highest. So if you and your partner rolled 6 and 5 and the opponents rolled 3 and 1 the order would be 6, 3, 5, 1. Hope that makes sense.

[Longbombed]

"you may move all Lionesses you control, up to 2 spaces each."

Do they all have to move or none?
Do they all have to move the same amount?


Thanks for the help in advance.

[Longbombed]

Insight

...when a unit you control attacks, add 1 to attack value if there is 1 or more friendly Scholars adjacent to the card being attacked"

Would that include that Scholar if he is the only one attacking and Magic Point is spent for activation?


Thanks in advance for your reply.

[joepinion]

Yep, he gets a 1-AV in that case.

[Phoenixio]

"you may move all Lionesses you control, up to 2 spaces each."

Do they all have to move or none?
Do they all have to move the same amount?


Thanks for the help in advance.

You can move any number of them, each a different amount. Well, in fact, you do move all of them, but "up to 2" includes moving 0.



Insight

...when a unit you control attacks, add 1 to attack value if there is 1 or more friendly Scholars adjacent to the card being attacked"

Would that include that Scholar if he is the only one attacking and Magic Point is spent for activation?


Yes. You can pay 1 magic to activate Insight so your Scholar has 1 Attack Value. If you'r in a pinch, or if you use Wake the Father Gem, it's always a good idea to consider attacking with a Scholar.

[Longbombed]

Awesome stuff, guys, thanks for the quick replies!

Sorry for the n00blet questions.

[Kaemon Awa 123]

[QUOTE=Phoenixio;34491]You can move any number of them, each a different amount. Well, in fact, you do move all of them, but "up to 2" includes moving 0.
Well then, what happens when one is next to a Defender? Can you move the rest? I've never really thought about that before...

[thenightsshadow]

Yes. That Lioness is prevented from moving, but having a Lioness not able to participate in moving doesn't exclude the others.

[thenightsshadow]

Okay, I wanna clear up something here.
What's the official word on Vine Guard vs. Krung/Gror?

Say the set-up was this:
Gror/Krung attacks a Unit on a Vine Wall and destroys the Vine Wall with the attack as well. If Vine Guard is active, can you choose to hit the Vine Wall first, remove it, and then hit the Unit without Guard's influence?

My personal response is no, Guard would still have an influence, but I'm looking for the official answer.

[cmgames]

Okay, I wanna clear up something here.
What's the official word on Vine Guard vs. Krung/Gror?

Say the set-up was this:
Gror/Krung attacks a Unit on a Vine Wall and destroys the Vine Wall with the attack as well. If Vine Guard is active, can you choose to hit the Vine Wall first, remove it, and then hit the Unit without Guard's influence?

My personal response is no, Guard would still have an influence, but I'm looking for the official answer.

Pretty sure the "Putting wounds on" sub-phase occurs for all units affected by the attack before the "Removing dead units" sub-phase. But I'm most decidedly not "official".

~Z

[killercactus]

I think it's no. Gror and Krung attack the cards at the same time, so the VW is still there when the unit is affected by the attack.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

ok then, so how does that mesh with the idea that the attacker resolves which unit is affected first? Like that ruling that if Gror kills both summoners with hit you still win the game (since you choose the opponent to be affected first)?

[killercactus]

ok then, so how does that mesh with the idea that the attacker resolves which unit is affected first? Like that ruling that if Gror kills both summoners with hit you still win the game (since you choose the opponent to be affected first)?

Honestly I'd forgotten about that, but I don't think it matters.

I'm not sure it's exactly the same scenario. In the summoner case, the active player is deciding which card gets wounds from the attack first. In this case, Vine Guard is kicking in before wounds are applied. Here's the order in my mind:

-Vine Guard is up.
-Gror attacks (insert unit here - lets call him Ed) who is on a VW.
-Gror rolls once for all affected cards (4,4)
-Hits are determined (both rolls are hits)
----Vine Guard kicks in and says that nothing under a 5 wounds Ed
-Gror's player chooses to apply wounds to the VW first (2), then Ed (0)

I guess my logic is based on the fact that web Gror rolled to attack both of them, the VW was there, so VG should kick in before wounds are applied. VG says "When so and so rolls to attack a unit adjacent to a VW...", therefore at the point of time it's referring to, the VW is alive.

It's a good question though.

[cmgames]

But if the attacking player targets the Wall first instead of the unit on the wall?

~Z

[killercactus]

But if the attacking player targets the Wall first instead of the unit on the wall?

~Z

That's different. If Shikwa or a Blade Master or something targets the VW and then the Unit, Vine Guard won't work. But that isn't how Gror and Krung work - their attack effects all cards at the same time. You can't choose to target one or the other first. You can just choose in what order to assign wounds, which is why the Gror works to win the game in the summoner situation.

[cmgames]

What does the "Junior Member/Member/Senior Member" signify? Also, in the FAQ section, it talks about a Reputation system, but I cannot seem to find the Icon it mentions to add rep to a post.

~Z

[Ranior]

What does the "Junior Member/Member/Senior Member" signify? Also, in the FAQ section, it talks about a Reputation system, but I cannot seem to find the Icon it mentions to add rep to a post.

~Z

The member titles are just forum defaults. It's based on post count. I think it takes 20 posts to become a member? I know it takes 100 to become a senior member. There are like maybe 3 people on these boards that have custom titles, nobody really awards them.


As for reputation, it is not enabled on these forums. That FAQ is just a basic forum FAQ, and covers all possible features. This forum doesn't have much offered up. I think a lot of us would like to see a few admins and more features added, but I suppose it all works out well enough as is.

[prometheuslkr]

SE Hunters: They say you may "place" them adjacent to other SE units "when summoning" them. It does not say "after summoning," but neither does it say you may "summon" them adjacent to other units. So my question is this: if you place the Hunter adjacent to another Unit, do you still have to have a wall space available?

(also, I find it interesting to note that the ability text specified "after paying the summon cost." I wonder if the next SE summoner will have reinforcements or something similar that would allow for insta-summons.)

[prometheuslkr]

You can move any number of [Lionesses], each a different amount. Well, in fact, you do move all of them, but "up to 2" includes moving 0.

Really? So a defender could prevent the entire pride from moving because you wouldn't be able to move all of them? Would all Lionesses trigger fear if they're adjacent to Savagers, since you have to move all of them?

[PePe QuiCoSE]

was answered somewhere and it was No, you don't need even walls.