The Book of Stalwart Archers

[Phoenixio]

The Book of Stalwart Archers
Common of the Vanguards - Expansion 1: Vanguards

http://www.plaidhatgames.com/images/sw/cards/stalwartarcher.gif

Bio: The missile troops of the Vanguards fight in heavier armor than some close combat experts of other factions. Though the introduction of summoning magic to the science of warfare made units of archers obsolete, the archers of the Vanguards are trained to fight back-to-back, combining their fire to bring down stronger foes.

Rulings and Clarifications
N/A

Community Contributions
N/A

[PePe QuiCoSE]

What does "friendly" means? In a 2v2 player a double Vanguard team ally Stalwart Archers (or free build with Stalwart Archers on both allys) counts as friendly?

[Jivatma]

What does "friendly" means? In a 2v2 player a double Vanguard team ally Stalwart Archers (or free build with Stalwart Archers on both allys) counts as friendly?

I would presume it to mean any allied or controlled Stalwart Archer. In either case, the maximum dice a Stalwart Archer can have is 4. Unless you want to shoot at your own unit/allied unit, then its 5.

[sitnam90]

I just don't get that. Their my favorite VG common, and three of them on the left side of your original wall can be a great way to block off that whole section of the map. Their ability makes them pretty useful versus many champs too, and with priests and Coleen they can form a very tough defensive block.

[Marroking1]

I just don't get that. Their my favorite VG common, and three of them on the left side of your original wall can be a great way to block off that whole section of the map. Their ability makes them pretty useful versus many champs too, and with priests and Coleen they can form a very tough defensive block.
Don't worry about Sitman, There track record will increase when Colleen is realeased. Being able to make this formation is killer
S|S|S|W
P|C|P

[sitnam90]

Don't worry about Sitman, There track record will increase when Colleen is realeased. Being able to make this formation is killer
S|S|S|W
P|C|P

Thats very magic costly, but that formation will just clog up that side of the board. Two 2-AV SA's with one 3-AV sa will be hell for a goblin swarm to even look at.

[brightknight_216]

Don't worry about Sitman, There track record will increase when Colleen is realeased. Being able to make this formation is killer
S|S|S|W
P|C|P

I agree that's a powerful formation but I wonder how often we can pull that off. Also, I think this formation will force us to be 'turtled' which may not be effective in winning the game as the objective is to chase after and destroy opponent's summoner.

Unless we just wait for the opponents to send their units to VG's firing line and killing them off slowly. I'm just curious what if the other opponent is smart enough to go put themselves in danger of being fired and just wait at their side. This could be boring game. :( Just musing.


Thats very magic costly, but that formation will just clog up that side of the board. Two 2-AV SA's with one 3-AV sa will be hell for a goblin swarm to even look at.

I do think this will be effective against the low life and attacking units but have to be careful with some hard-hitting factions like Tundra Orc and perhaps Mountain Vargath. Some of the commons have 2 attack value and many of the TO's champions can give a serious beating. They can kill the Stalwart Archers (provided they can roll 4+) before the Priest can heal them.

[Marroking1]

If you really want to make that Formation you really have to do it right after a Summoning Surge. Or wait It cost 16 Magic. So you really have to sacrifice not summoning 1 of your champs if you want to get it out.

[Sera Eldwyn's boyfriend]

You also have to take into account that the VG can build up magic very quickly on their own. It wouldn't be hard to get that formation out quickly especially taking into consideration the one SA that starts on the board.

[Sujoah]

The huge problem that I see with that is that I have a 1/4 chance of instantly killing one of those Archers with a 2 attack unit. And Elephant or Lioneer could really cause havoc. Or Violet? Then you could lose an Archer and a Priest! And if she has full health, there's no way to kill her unless you summon something else!

I like the Vanguards, but when my reinforcements come, I'm taking out these guys for Calvary Knights and Angels.

[Phoenixio]

The huge problem that I see with that is that I have a 1/4 chance of instantly killing one of those Archers with a 2 attack unit.

It's 44% chance of hitting twice on a 2 AV attack. Much closer to 1/2 than 1/4.

[sitnam90]

I don't see that as a disadvantage however, atleast not one unique to SA's. Any 2 life unit it going to be capable of being one shotted. Anything capable of killing a SA is able to do the same with anbgels and cav knights. Violet and fire drake are problems, but fairly situational problems. Trample wouldn't be a problem because the formation posted early is two ranks deep. Unless Chant of Growth is used ofcourse

[Sera Eldwyn's boyfriend]

The SA are the core of a VG deck along with the Priests. I can't say that I won't take out a few of all of their commons including the SA, but no common shall be taken out more than the other. I feel the SA are to usefull to just cast aside like that, I have a VG deck loaded with them. It's so easy to get them out it's funny, and then they get to cause trouble by basting them when they get to close. If you summon the SA fast enough than you can keep a solid offensive wall ready to fire at your opponent.

[Incognito]

It's 44% chance of hitting twice on a 2 AV attack. Much closer to 1/2 than 1/4.

He was referring to a formation where Coleen was protecting the commons, thus the 25% chance of a clean kill.

[Phoenixio]

He was referring to a formation where Coleen was protecting the commons, thus the 25% chance of a clean kill.

Ah of course, my bad! :o

I like Stalwart Archers because they are ranged units. But without Coleen, they are quite difficult to set up. They are quite expensive, and they get beaten up rather easily by other ranged units on whom they don't have the first strike.

Even with priests, the movement/attack requirement to set them up isn't quite optimal. Would I throw them all out? No, but I sure wouldn't rely on them too much either.

[sitnam90]

They are quite expensive, and they get beaten up rather easily by other ranged units on whom they don't have the first strike.


What? That just doesn't make to much sense to me. If anything a formation of two archers will outshoot a good majority of opposing ranged commons.


Slingers: 1 life, 1 weak attack
Climbers: 1 life, 1 attack, mobile/survival ability
PE Archers: 1 life, 1 attack, extra range
JE Archers: 1 life, 1 attack, mobility/survival ability
Skellys: 1 life, 1 attack
TO Shaman: 2 life, 2 attack, debilitating ability (More likely for SA to one shot Shaman)
Gunner:1 attack, 1 life, mobility
Spearman: 1 life, 1/2 attack

Those are just some off top of my head, and I think it's pretty clear that two SA's (especially with a priest) will outfight any of the above imo. They are more survivable and shoot better then any of their opponents. I think the Elf archers could pot shot them and pick them off But pot shotting with a priest isn't an easy proposition. I think that the Deep Dwarfs, Sand Goblins, and benders will be able to outshoot them however, as their special abilities are really good. But I don't see the majority of ranged commons beating them up. The way to break an SA formation is with area of attack champions, and hard hitting units such as elephants and such

[brightknight_216]

I just wonder what if you substitute the other 4 Priests in the deck with Stalwart Archers if you have another VG deck. This allows you to have better chance of getting them out and form a strong formation.

Of course the problem is not being able to summon Priests to heal and that you have to move slowly in order to effectively cluster your Stalwart Archers together.

What do you guys think?

[killercactus]

I haven't really tried it, but I kind of feel like Stalwart Archers are all-or-nothing. Either you base your deck on them as your main force of attack, or you build them / don't include them and focus on champions to win you games, using GK's / Priests to protect Sarah.

I think Coleen definitely makes a Stalwart Archer formation a lot more well... formidable.

[Jexik]

What? That just doesn't make to much sense to me. If anything a formation of two archers will outshoot a good majority of opposing ranged commons.

TO Shaman: 2 life, 2 attack, debilitating ability (More likely for SA to one shot Shaman)

This statement is false. They have the same chance to one-shot each other- 44%. Shamans are a bad example to bring up to show that SA are good. Unwieldy magic is cool in that it either kills or does nothing, so you don't get an opportunity to heal the SA's.

[sitnam90]

That's very true, I don't know what I was thinking there. I still think the comparison is valid to show SA's are good however. I was trying to point out that SA's are supeior in a fire fight, and I think that still holds true. They have the same health and an equal chance to one shot if they have a buddy. But if an SA misses one shot, he can finish the Shaman off much easier next round. The Shaman can't pick away at health, as you said its either do or die. But that is how it has to be anyway if the SA has priest backup, so not being able to potshot is a disadvantage because at the very bleast the VG will waste an available attack to heal the SA

[PePe QuiCoSE]

the extra cost doesn't make it up for it.

edit: SA cost 2 magic, Shamans only 1. That's what i mean by extra cost.

[sitnam90]

Huh? I'm somewhat confused by what you mean there.

[esper88]

I'd just like to cry havoc on the Stalwart Archers. I just bought a second Vanguard deck and tried loading it up with Stalwarts and Colleen, thinking it would be an alternative way to play the Vanguards.

Let's just say it's not. It's not really possible to set up a good amount of Stalwarts without absolutely wrecking your magic efficiency. And even then the Stalwarts don't deliver.

So I'm just crying havoc on them. It's hard to be a common in the most champ-centric deck in SW.

[Elcor13]

I'd just like to cry havoc on the Stalwart Archers. I just bought a second Vanguard deck and tried loading it up with Stalwarts and Colleen, thinking it would be an alternative way to play the Vanguards.

Let's just say it's not. It's not really possible to set up a good amount of Stalwarts without absolutely wrecking your magic efficiency. And even then the Stalwarts don't deliver.

So I'm just crying havoc on them. It's hard to be a common in the most champ-centric deck in SW.

I'll agree that SA's aren't that great, but I find the JE to be a lot more champ centric. The Vanguard have Priests, Cav Knights, and GKnights, who are all really good. The JE, on the other hand, basically perfected just playing champions, with Miti, Ru and Shikwa all wrecking havoc. Reinforcements change both, but the Vanguard at least use Priests and Gk's, while the JE kind of just rely on their champs and the occasional lioneer.

[esper88]

Agree to disagree on this one. Before reinforcements the JE were a hyper-champ-centric dynamo, but now between Kadara and Gorillas I find myself working an effective swarm rather often.

Vanguards are the reincarnation of Thorkur's original form the way I play them. Just get 2 champs out, healing them until one dies, replace it, repeat until you win. Maybe get out a CK/GK or two towards the end. This strategy gives the opponent nearly 0 magic while basically giving you champs with 14+ life. Vanguards using this strategy is my #1 most dreaded match up.

[iglew]

That strategy works better against some factions than others.

I've attempted that Vanguards strategy and I've found that: (1) CG don't really need much magic from me and can pursue their usual game, (2) JE and CL can take advantage of my lack of units to get at my summoner and/or the back row, (3) PE can manage their hand in a way to reliably put a lot of damage on a champ in one turn, foiling the healing plan.

[killercactus]

I've enjoyed Stalwart Archers in the past. Having 2 attack from range is nice when you get 2 down. A Priest behind them is nice, too. I haven't gotten Colleen down with them yet, though.

My problem with Colleen is that I like Kalon, Archie and Jacob enough that I want to play 2 of them. Malevolence is decent with the VG as well, making Colleen a tough add.

[esper88]

With the Vanguards strategy I use I feel like there's always a certain "hump" you have to get over in any given game, and once you've gotten over that hump you're coasting into victory.

Let's say you've got your champs going and the opponent summons 2 champs at once, and pushes to take down your champ in 1 hit. This is the beginning of the hump. The opponent will bring out the third champ as you try to deal with this pressure. If you can get past your opponent's 3 champions and still have 1 of yours left (preferably Kalon) then you're over the hump and you will probably win. Intercession helps a lot with this hump. If you're against a non-subversive faction then you can heal 5 wounds off a champ and put your opponent in a bad position.

It is a bit match-up dependent, but not as much as you'd think. Throwing a few Guardian Knights her and there takes care of most of those problems.

But of course the way that any faction can even the score with this strategy is to lure them out of their hole so that you can hit Sera/swarm the champs easily. Basically, attack the wall or use ranged attacks until they're forced to move out.