units I would like to see with second summoners.

[eyalswalrus]

Well, this is a more thematic subject, as in what kind of creatures/ classes would fit existing factions. also, I apologize in advance for my spelling and grammar mistakes, I am not a native speaker.

Phoenix elves: Well, they are the biggest reason I opened this thread, and the units I think will defenitly fit thematicly is DEMONS. I mean, you cant be evil without demons right? the other creatures that fit the Phoenix Elves are dragons, but we already have the fire drake. it would be cool to see more of them.

Cave Goblins: Ever since playing warcraft 2 as a kid at my grandparents house I've always connected goblins with explosives in my mind, and so I excpect some sort of terrorist-ish bomber unit in summoner wars, and the cave goblins in particular, because of their large numbers and disregard of eachother's lives. also, I want a giant worm. with 5 goblins riding it.

Vanguards: Paladins and exorcists are the backbone of any evil-fighting organization. paladins should be able to cover other units (like the gurdian knights), but less effectively (something like:whenether a unit that is adjacted to this paladin receives 1 wound marker or more, you may instead place one of those markers on the paladin. place the remaining wound markers at the targeted unit.) but would pack more punch in terms of health and attack. exorcists should repel enemy units.

Fallen kingdom: Well, I am not going to talk about the fallen kingdom, because there are so many options for units for them. Ghouls, Werewolves, witches, ghosts. they are another faction that could use demons. but not fire ones, impish kind. oh, and fallen angels.

Jungle Elves: this one is obvious, giraffe-riding archers!

Swamp orcs: they need more animals. Toads, Boars, giant Dragonflies. where there are swamps, there are filthy animals. speaking of filth:

the Filth: what, a faction that isn't even out yet? yes. even without playing them, I think they should have units that sacrifice the enemy units for some sort of benifits bestowed to them by their demon gods. cards, health, magic, IDK, but it will happen, mark my word.

Sand Goblins: Armadilos. nuff said.

Cloaks: Ninjas, that can switch places with another unit right before it's attacked. if the dice gods allow it of cource.

And thats it for now! I dont expect anyone to read it, but if you want go ahead and read it, or even comment about why I am wrong, or add to my speculations.

[Dustin]

I like the Ninja idea, but I think Vlox would abuse it. Perhaps for another sneaky faction

[sitnam90]

I like the idea of inserting more animal units. I'd love to se Hyena's for Fallen Kingdom, as that is my favorite animal

[prometheuslkr]

In the reinforcements, the Sand Goblins are getting bombers and a giant worm, and I think those fit much better with the SG than the CG. I don't really want the PE to get demons; they're not that kind of evil.

I'd love to see an ice elemental for the TO that you have to summon adjacent to an ice wall, destroying the ice wall.

[sitnam90]

Correction, PE aren't evil at all

[eyalswalrus]

In the reinforcements, the Sand Goblins are getting bombers and a giant worm, and I think those fit much better with the SG than the CG. I don't really want the PE to get demons; they're not that kind of evil.

I'd love to see an ice elemental for the TO that you have to summon adjacent to an ice wall, destroying the ice wall.
I didn't notice they are getting bombers, but they are not getting a sand worm, they are getting a sand wyrm, which is like a dragon.

and the phoenix elves are 70% evil, thats enough for me.

[joepinion]

Jungle Elves: this one is obvious, giraffe-riding archers!

XD Duh. :P

[prometheuslkr]

I didn't notice they are getting bombers, but they are not getting a sand worm, they are getting a sand wyrm, which is like a dragon.

and the phoenix elves are 70% evil, thats enough for me.

Sand wyrms are more like snakes/worms than dragons.

I know the PE are evil, but you have to understand the different kinds of evil. Demons would go with an "I'm evil and I know it" faction like the FK or the Filth (what's the Filth abbreviation?), whereas the PE are an "I'm evil but I don't consider myself evil" faction; they're vindictive and bitter, but they still have a deluded view of themselves as "good guys," so they would not yet stoop to the level of demon-summoning.

[sitnam90]

Lol I'll agree to disagree on the PE. I remember the last time we argued good and evil on here:p

[Clarissimus]

I don't care what Colby says, there's nothing evil at all about the PE. They are a proud and noble race and woe betide any creature who stands in their way!

[eyalswalrus]

Well, I guess you guys are right... but the demons need to go somewhere!

[prometheuslkr]

I don't care what Colby says, there's nothing evil at all about the PE. They are a proud and noble race and woe betide any creature who stands in their way!

Keep in mind that the good/evil ratings are more about the Summoners than the actual race itself. The PE in general might be proud and noble, but Prince Elien is kind of a jerk.

[prometheuslkr]

Well, I guess you guys are right... but the demons need to go somewhere!

I'd like to see a Filth second summoner that actually was able to summon up some of the lesser demons.

[sitnam90]

Well, I guess you guys are right... but the demons need to go somewhere!

Well Elut-bal is an enslaved demon, and the filth apparently worship them

And Elien maybe arrogant, but arrogance doesn't equate to evil. Sunderved kind of seems pretty into himself but he still seems like a good guy. Just a bit of a hardass.

[prometheuslkr]

Well Elut-bal is an enslaved demon, and the filth apparently worship them

And Elien maybe arrogant, but arrogance doesn't equate to evil. Sunderved kind of seems pretty into himself but he still seems like a good guy. Just a bit of a hardass.

I think the main evil thing about Elien is his lust for vengeance against the TO; he is begetting more war, while Sunderved is apparently working with Selundar to combat Ret-Talus and the Avatar.

[sitnam90]

I don't think vengeance is in itself evil or good. And it's not like the Terrel Owens doesn't deserve it

[prometheuslkr]

I don't think vengeance is in itself evil or good. And it's not like the Terrel Owens doesn't deserve it

Well I would define evil as selfish and good as selfless; is vengeance selfish? Definitely. If he was killing the TO to save the lives of his people, that would be okay, but killing merely to satisfy your own anger or to respect the memory of a long dead ancestor, that is, imho, evil. According to the Bible, we all deserve to die, but it is wrong to dish out "what they deserve" when you yourself have been allowed to escape justice.

[thenightsshadow]

Since you're using the Bible, I might as well bring out an example, here.

"Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord." If so, and vengeance is inherently selfish, would that make God selfish?

[sitnam90]

I'd steer clear of the bible guys. Could get very ugly.

But my own definition of evil/good has doesn't have anything to do with selfishness. It isn't selfish for him to want vengeance on the TO because it is obivous that the TO seek to kill and plunder at their own behest. If anything his desire for vengeance could be fueled by the fact that the TO attack the PE with no rhyme or reason.

[Sauam]

The way I see it is that PE only seem evil because of Prince Elien's influence. Elien is a bitter, basement drawler kinda guy... probably just went through puberty and got too many acne.

I think PE will probably get's a moral boost once Queen Mardaria takes controls... or she too can be bitchy as hell... she better not be in her menopause

[chardris77]

Hold on a sec, who's Queen Mardaria?

[Sauam]

Hold on a sec, who's Queen Mardaria?

It was leaked in bbg somewhere by Colby, Queen Mardaria (spelling) will be the second summoner for the PE. Elien's mom.

[prometheuslkr]

Since you're using the Bible, I might as well bring out an example, here.

"Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord." If so, and vengeance is inherently selfish, would that make God selfish?

I do not believe that that is referencing vengeance in the same sense as i was. a) I strongly doubt that God derives pleasure from seeing sinners get their just deserts; after all, He sent His Son to give us the opportunity to escape justice. b) I don't really think he intentionally harms sinners, per se. I think this verse is talking about the fact that anyone who does evil, the natural consequences will only hurt him, sort of the built in karma of the universe. c) so I think this verse is saying "don't take vengeance into your own hands, they are already hurting themselves."


I'd steer clear of the bible guys. Could get very ugly.

But my own definition of evil/good has doesn't have anything to do with selfishness. It isn't selfish for him to want vengeance on the TO because it is obivous that the TO seek to kill and plunder at their own behest. If anything his desire for vengeance could be fueled by the fact that the TO attack the PE with no rhyme or reason.

a) Why is it that whenever the Bible is mentioned, people try to shut it down? Is the ungodly influence so strong that you hate the mere mention of God's Word? I think the world would be a better place if we steered clear of the Bible less often.

b) If he was trying to protect his people, perhaps war with the tundra orcs would be a little more justifiable. but I from his bio I believe that he is doing it more out of racism, fear, anger, desire for glory, and an overly glorified view of himself as an arbiter of who must die and who must leave. And somehow I doubt he will stop at merely getting a surrender out of the orcs. He's shooting for genocide. And if your view of good/evil isn't based on helping yourself vs. helping others, what is it based on?

c) I'm not sure the TO attack for no reason. When the Orcs originally attacked the Summerlands, it was a war of conquest. From Maelena's comment, "Then they are out there?" I believe that since their retreat into the mountains, the elves have not been attacked by the orcs, so a youngerelf like Maelena would not have seen or heard reliable accounts of their existence.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

Proof Elien is evil:
1) he doesn't roll dice
2) he burns [-]bibles[/-] puppies.

[sitnam90]

@prometheus: I'm not discussing the bible or any religous text. This is not the place and I don't think it's worth it because bringing in that type of stuff can get very hateful on both sides.

B) I don't see how it isn't clear that they aren't still at war. Maelaenas father was said to have died at the TO's hands, in a unspecified but brutal way. This is the whole reason her bio is based around her fathers death. So they are still at war. And the TO didn't invade the summer lands. A long, brutal winter came and the TO arrived centuries later and attacked the Phoenix Elves in the volcanic enclaves. So that right there shows he is trying to protect his people.

C) clearly from her bio she does know of the Tundra Orcs, and the TO do attack for the sake of attacking. Gruggar I believe is mentioned to of destroyed a whole human border town by himself because he went to the wrong town then the one the TO were targeting. So they have a clear history of waging war on grounds of conquest.

[prometheuslkr]

@prometheus: I'm not discussing the bible or any religous text. This is not the place and I don't think it's worth it because bringing in that type of stuff can get very hateful on both sides.

B) I don't see how it isn't clear that they aren't still at war. Maelaenas father was said to have died at the TO's hands, in a unspecified but brutal way. This is the whole reason her bio is based around her fathers death. So they are still at war. And the TO didn't invade the summer lands. A long, brutal winter came and the TO arrived centuries later and attacked the Phoenix Elves in the volcanic enclaves. So that right there shows he is trying to protect his people.

C) clearly from her bio she does know of the Tundra Orcs, and the TO do attack for the sake of attacking. Gruggar I believe is mentioned to of destroyed a whole human border town by himself because he went to the wrong town then the one the TO were targeting. So they have a clear history of waging war on grounds of conquest.

People are hateful, don't blame the Bible for it.

I always thought that the Phoenix Elves did not flee to the volcanoes until the TO arrived, but I guess it doesn't really say. Both the TO and the PE are evil, simply because they are both overfond of war. Prince Elien has a "long list" of people he is going to kill because they have hurt his people at some time, and I doubt all of them are as evil as the Tundra Orcs. The fact that he is attacking the Tundra Orcs without, seemingly, any effort to negotiate for peace is wrong. The violence will never stop until someone says "I'm not going to pay them back for that. I'm going to forgive them." A good ruler would consider a more universal threat like the Fallen Kingdom. Sure the Tundra Orcs will raid human border town and kill Phoenix Elves, but Ret-Talus is planning to end life. Permanently.

Now by all this, I am not saying that the Tundra Orcs are not to blame, but the right thing for the Phoenix Elves to do would be to turn the other cheek, reach out to the Orcs with love, not anger, and perhaps some day the war will end. But that's not going to happen; the Avatar picked who it did because it knew they would never try for peace.

[sitnam90]

Dude, what makes you think the TO will go for peace. They attacked without cause. They raid human towns. They are savages pure and simple. Turning the over cheek is a horrible concept, especially for conflict with a race as brutal as the TO. The PE haven't done anything to incite the TO. It clearly states that the winter came BEFORE the TO, and the PE were gone from the Summerlands before the TO arrived. They were held up in the volcanoes and the TO still attacked them, even when its been made clear that tundra orcs prefer the cold and not the boiling heat of volcanoes. The TO attacked then, and it was made in in Eliens biography that the PE knew they were going to attack again. That's self-defence, and there is nothing evil about self defence.

And you cant assume that anyone on the long list of enemies the PE has is good or bad. We do know that the TO and FK are apart of that list, and neither of them are good.

[prometheuslkr]

What it's going to come down to is I'm trusting Truth's staement that the TO are neutral and the PE are evil. If that doesn't entirely mesh with the material that is currently available:


My scale may be skewed by visions of the future and not necessarily representative of their current evil factor. Redemption may lie in the future for some factions while others turn for the worse.

The PE have a legitimate reason to be angry at the world. But what will that anger drive them to?

Tundra Orcs are cold-blooded killers right? Or is there something about them we don't yet understand? Can a culture that holds war in such high regard control themselves and fight for the right reasons?