Which Champion "never" makes it to the party?

[Onacara]

I have played this game a bunch of times since getting it..and have noticed on several occassions that some Champions in my hand never get the chance to be played. Gror seems to be the odd man out alot of times when I am playing the Dwarves...either I can never have the 7 cards needed to summon him in my Magic pile or if I do happen to have enough I end up spending it on putting 3 or 4 other cards out.

Is it only me?

[KCU Master 2007]

Nah...I'm right there with you. Unless I have a distinct advantage I don't even think about summoning Gror, Krung, or Fire Drake. They are simply too high in magic cost for me. However, 6 cost or lower I typically make an effort to get them out. So far a trend in my games has been if I get 2 champions out I'm in a good position; if I don't then I struggle through the game.

I'm looking forward to the expansions simply to trade out some of these more expensive heros for a more viable third option in each faction (Goblins are set though...the most magic you put into a Champion there is 5).

[Jexik]

When I play the Phoenix Elves or the Guild Dwarves, I generally get all three out throughout the course of the game, or I win before I get through the deck.

When I play the Cave Goblins, I usually only summon Mook.

Tundra Orcs... it depends. Krung is pretty expensive.

[ultimobean]

when playing with the PE i find it pretty easy to summon the fire drake but i would have to say that for me gror and krung are the odd men out. it doesnt matter though thokur is a much better champion.

[Creationist]

The only ones I never summon are Blarf and Krung.

[KCU Master 2007]

Man...Blarf is my go to man for the Goblins. Its just a matter of using him at the right time and on the right target.

[mrkurtb]

Gror + Heroic Feat (as I believe Dr. Livingston has already noted) can be a grand slam. Gror has been a difference maker in enough games for me that when at all possible he sees the board. Let the playa play.

My Tundra Orcs are usually magic-poor so Krung more often rides the bench.

[Pickledpie]

Gror + Heroic Feat (as I believe Dr. Livingston has already noted) can be a grand slam. Gror has been a difference maker in enough games for me that when at all possible he sees the board. Let the playa play.


Ah yes, that reminds me of a 4 player game I was playing. By chance, I was able to get out Gror mid-game, use heroic feat, and decimate both my opponent's armies at once. It's all really situational. Normally, I would have discarded Gror for some quick magic, but the one time was really helpful.

[Jexik]

I rarely discard any champions for Magic because they're impossible to replace. Commons, sure. Events I can't use this turn? Why not? But usually the expensive guys, even Krung stick in my hand for awhile.

[Truth]

I rarely discard any champions for Magic because they're impossible to replace. Commons, sure. Events I can't use this turn? Why not? But usually the expensive guys, even Krung stick in my hand for awhile.

I'm with Jexik. Though if I have two or three champs in my hand and I'm a ways from summoning any of them I'll make the agonizing decision on which to drop. There is rarely ever a game that I don't get out at least 2 of my champions.

[rym]

I'm with Jexik. Though if I have two or three champs in my hand and I'm a ways from summoning any of them I'll make the agonizing decision on which to drop. There is rarely ever a game that I don't get out at least 2 of my champions.


The very first game I played I ended up with 2 of the Champions in my hand on the first draw. Talk about agonizing? How about seeing this great potential in these awesome Champions (Blagog and Krung), but not having enough magic - or units on the board to garner magic - to summon them. I think I held both of those guys for 3 full rounds before I wised up and dropped both and went with Ragnor, whom I'd just drawn.

[XCoconutMonkey06x]

I feel you. I've recently sub'd out Krung now in lew of Khan Queso. As much as I really like Krung, I can just never get his large & rocky butt onto the field

[S1R_ART0R1US]

I think it's fairly easy to get out all the Cave Goblin champions, assuming you draw them. Two of the goblin commons are free, and in good positions can easily kill to build magic.

[Incognito]

For me (who only has Orcs and Elves) it is Krung AND Blagog. But I always put Khan in for one. With the elves, no champion never makes it out, but Maelena ALWAYS comes out. She is great with Spirit for Summoner killing.

[KCU Master 2007]

I actually had a great situation happen a while back. I was playing Orcs vs. Goblins and the goblins were pushing me back and only summoned a few at a time. I built up a lot magic and had exhausted by draw pile. Carelessly they pushed behind my walls to go after my summoner. At that point I played reinforcements summoning two smashers and then used my magic pile to summon Krung! I put the smashers between the advanced Goblins and Grognack and put Krung in front of my walls close to their summoner, he then lumbered towards the summoner. There was nothing they could do to stop the giant.

Krung doesn't make it often, but when he does at the right time it is amazing to watch.

[killercactus]

I've gotten great use out of all of the Phoenix Elf Champions. With the Elves, I usually find I have enough magic to get to 7 pretty easily for the Drake. I seem to always find a way for him to catch a Summoner or Champion and play Spirit on him for 3 auto-wounds. Kaeseeall and Maelena are both just awesome.

I've never gotten Krung down, but I'd like to. His attack, abilities and 9 life seem like they're worth the 8 magic to me - I just always draw him too early. Blagog makes it once in a while, but Ragnor is usually the guy I see hitting the table.

I've only played the Goblins once against a human (and once against myself), and I love Blarf. I basically just view him as a 5-cost Champion with 4 attack, but you can pay most of his cost after you get him on the board and into position. The Eater is really good against the Orcs, who have two different multi-life Commons to Chomp. I haven't gotten Mook onto the battlefield yet.

[Incognito]

I think Blarf is really useful just for his life. Park him in the premium summoning spot next to a wall, and you have a 5-life figure sitting there for 1 Magic. Not too shabby. Mook, on the other hand, often chases down a summoner with Sneeks.

Maybe it's just me, but I love using Sneeks/Grognack (occasionally Oldin) to chase down an enemy summoner paired with a champion. I also 'suffocate' the walls to my best ability, and try to shut down parts of the board. Often times my opponent has trouble getting units over to my summoner, even though there is next to no units on my side of the board.

[killercactus]

Maybe it's just me, but I love using Sneeks/Grognack (occasionally Oldin) to chase down an enemy summoner paired with a champion. I also 'suffocate' the walls to my best ability, and try to shut down parts of the board. Often times my opponent has trouble getting units over to my summoner, even though there is next to no units on my side of the board.

This is an effective tactic that I've just started to realize (I love getting into a game and figuring out all these nuances as I go). If you can take away the summoning spots, your opponent's Magic pile is pretty meaningless. A great tactic for the Goblins, who can flood the board with Commons.

I just played a game against myself the other night, in which I used both of these tactics you mentioned - suffocating walls and using Summoner/Champion to hunt down the other summoner. I was playing Goblins vs. Elves, and the Elves were handling the Goblins pretty well, using their range and maneuverability to kill Goblins without much retaliation. As the game was wrapping up, here was the board:

A = Archer
G = Guardian
E = Elien
K = Kaeseeall
M = Maelena
F = Fighter
S = Slinger
B = Blarf
Sn = Sneeks

_ A A E _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ K W _ _
_ F _ G W B
WS _ F _ W
_ _ _ W _ _
_ _ _ _ M _
_ _ _ Sn_ _

On the Goblins' turn, they played Goblin Rush to move the Fighter and Slinger on the left up 2 spaces, and then both moved to the right 2 spaces, putting the Fighter right in front of Elien and next to their wall, and the Slinger next to him. Blarf also moved down and left to the other side of their wall. The Slinger killed the Archer and the Fighter wounded Elien. At the end of my turn, I used Sly to switch Sneeks with the fighter, making the map look like this:

_ A _ E _ _
_ _ S Sn_ _
_ _ K W B _
_ _ _ G W_
W_ _ F _ W
_ _ _ W_ _
_ _ _ _ M _
_ _ _ F _ _

The Elves had a full magic pile, but it really didn't matter since the only space they had to summon behind the walls was the far right space in the 4th row, and that card couldn't reach Sneeks unless it was ranged. With only 3 Life left, Sneeks in his face, and a fully pumped Blarf within striking distance and nowhere to summon, Elien is pretty much screwed. There's only enough Elven firepower down there to put 6 wounds on Sneeks.

In the end, the Elves ended up summoning a Warrior to that far-right space and moving Elien right one, and the Archer over next to him. They'd try to kill Blarf and, if they didn't, only either Blarf or Sneeks could engage and attack Elien next turn. They failed, but Blarf only put one Wound on Elien with a bad attack roll. However, they also played Goblin Invincibility that turn, so the Elves were done for.

[spider_poison]

I've also found the "suffocating walls" tactic to be great for the goblins. I previously thought the goblins were terrible, but after quite a few games with them, I think it's more an issue of learning to play them. For me anyway, they require the most thought and strategy to work. Getting the event cards at the right time is also pretty important, but with multiple copies and fast deck cycling, it's not rare to have 3 or 4 killer turns.

But back to the original topic, the champion that I don't feel too bad if he doesn't hit the board is Baldar. He was originally one of my favorites, but I just find that he's too easily countered. Elves are precise, Goblins can swarm with cheap attackers, and Orcs have the Shamans that don't really care about his ability. It seems to me like he's best if you draw him end game when the battlefield is drying up and there isn't much left besides the summoners. Baldar vs. Sneeks seems like a particularly good matchup.

[Jexik]

I had Krung hit the board in end-game today against a cornered (and once frozen) Prince Elien. It was glorious.

He's a lot worse in 4p I think, because it's easier for people to run away.

[infamous1]

i'm a fan of the orcs, krung is a great card, i use him as a closer or if i gotta play defence, krung and the summoner can fight a lot if playing defence in your zone, and in the end i find him quite a bit more effective then a last push of commons or a lesser hero, even if i don't use/need him it's always nice to know that i can drop a 1 orc show on the table,

[Dromar]

Come to think of it, I've actually used every champion at least once. My least favorites are:

Goblins - Blarf, though he's not bad, just situational.
Dwarves - Baldar. He's not bad either, just situational. The other two Dwarf champions are the best two champions in the game so far IMO, though, so he's got stiff competition.
Elves - Kaeseeall, I just don't see a whole lot of use for her ability, and it's tough to get all 3 champions out in one game, so I usually go with Fire Drake and Maelena.
Orcs - Honestly, I don't think any of the Orc champions are all that great, but IMO Ragnor is the worst of the 3.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

K is pretty good when the opponent gets funny ideas about using (melee) champions.
And i have the opposite opinion about orc champions, for their money Ragnor tends to be the one that pays off the most (with some luck, of course).

[killercactus]

I really wanna try Kaeseeall in a mixed format with the Guild Dwarf Defenders. I think she could be pretty deadly if you can lock down a strong champion.

[Jexik]

I really wanna try Kaeseeall in a mixed format with the Guild Dwarf Defenders. I think she could be pretty deadly if you can lock down a strong champion.

One really nasty move with her is to get Thorkur trapped somehow (I once managed it when Thorkur was next to two of his own walls and Kaeseeall, and one other PE unit). If you blazing conscript him, he can't use his damage prevention power (unless you want him to for some reason).

[Tidus]

When i play the Tundra Orcs, I usually have the choice of wasting A LOT of magic and usefull commons for Krung (cost of 8), or i can use all of that for a horde of reinforcements. It can become a difficult decision and Krung can really make you lose a lot of commons from magic buildup. Is it really worth it?

[gamjuven]

I have also had trouble getting Gror out. Not that I don't want to, but it's just difficult. I remember distinctly last game it was an issue of resources. I was up at 6 resources but never got to 7. I always went down to 4 or so magic each turn because I had to keep summoning commons in order to prevent Oldin from getting surrounded. Those guardians kept having to come into play to stop 3 goblin units from advancing. It was a cycle I couldn't get out of. I was trying to bide time to get a magic drain or happen to kill enough units to get to 7 but it never happened and I eventually got swarmed. Gror is a game saver though.

I'm also finding myself using the Eater less and less. I like the Eater, but there needs to be a good reason to spend those 5 magic cards on him and there needs to be enough commons to make him worth it. I will typically only get a good 2-3 commons eaten, with a few attacks on a spare wall. If I want more than that I have to start eating my own commons. He just hasn't "Earned back his points" in recent games. My opponent goes short on common units or just makes sure the Eater can't get next to any of them. It has also been bad luck that whenever my opponent does have a ton of units, I don't have the resources to put out the Eater, or a berserker would be more effective.

I don't really agree with the dwarves having the best heroes. I'd say besides Gror the dwarves have some of the worst heroes. I'm not that fond of the orc heroes either, except for the reinforcement champions we will be getting, as both of those are awesome. But Ragnor's meh and Krung is too darn expensive (although if you get him out he's there to stay).

[Kaiser Cat]

I've played 5 games so far, and both me and everyone I've played with has never wanted to play The Eater. He did come out once for a finishing blow in one game, but even then he wasn't all that useful or necessary.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

do remember The Eater may feed on enemy units too.
NOM

[yoyomansizzle]

Whenever I play GD thorkur usually never makes it to the board. I think against most races Baldar is good early game Champion, and Gror can just annihilate if you can save up the magic.

[Jexik]

Thorkur is very good.

[darkbladecb]

When I play these days, pretty much every Champion hits the table. :D

[yoyomansizzle]

I know thorkur is good but I dont like boosting him with Magic I could be spending on other things...maybe im just a noob :S

[Lord_AndraK]

Whenever I play GD thorkur usually never makes it to the board. I think against most races Baldar is good early game Champion, and Gror can just annihilate if you can save up the magic.

Wow a GD player that doesn't exploit Thorkur for his magic sheild.


With me when I play VG = Rachael never sees the board (ability to nasty)

FK = I tend not to use Skhull either because i dont draw him or the situation isnt right.

CG = I use Blarf the least with the CG not that his bad just that i tend to prefer the Mook and The Eater.

TO = I love Krung!,... but his to expensive for my TO playing style, late game (If there is a late game) he can be handy but I dont let late games occur to often when using TO.

PE = Kaseal me no like, ability nasty and unsportsmanlike.

GD = I also try not to use Gror as he can really just ruin the game for my opponent (which is not what i want).

The Champ I use least though is Khan Queso.

[darkbladecb]

My Inter-Champion Hierarchy, done hastily and poorly as a procrastinatory exercise, in the urgency with which I will play the Champion upon drawing him/her:

Mook
Kalon
Gror
Krung
Fire Drake
Skhull (says more about the FK than Skhull himself)
Baldar
Thorkur
Kaesseal/Maelena (they are really rather interchangeable in my mind)
Ragnor
Elut-Bal
Archangel
Blarf/Eater (more in that they are less essential for CG victory than Champions are for any other faction in the game)
Blagog
Dragos
Raechel

The last three in particular should likely be in a tier of their own.

[Jivatma]

to continue darkblade's order of preferences done in an untimely manner...

Mook
Kalon
Drake
Skhull
Maelena
Baldar
Blagog
Blarf
Rachel
Eater
Archangel
Elut-Bal
Thorkur
Dragos
Kaeseeal
Ragnor
Gror
Krung

[yoyomansizzle]

Wow a GD player that doesn't exploit Thorkur for his magic sheild.

Is that a good thing? :O

[darkbladecb]

to continue darkblade's order of preferences done in an untimely manner...

Mook
Kalon
Drake
Skhull
Maelena
Baldar
Blagog
Blarf
Rachel
Eater
Archangel
Elut-Bal
Thorkur
Dragos
Kaeseeal
Ragnor
Gror
Krung

I found this thread because I wanted to reference the list I wrote above. But Jivata, I wonder how you can have the likes of Kalon and the Drake at the top of the list, but have Gror and Krung so far down at the bottom? I would imagine you could appreciate the same "cost-tier" of champions in the same way?

[Elcor13]

With me when I play VG = Rachael never sees the board (ability to nasty)

PE = Kaseal me no like, ability nasty and unsportsmanlike.

GD = I also try not to use Gror as he can really just ruin the game for my opponent (which is not what i want).
.

I'm a little confused by what you mean by unsportsmanlike (and nasty for that matter.) The powers are in the rules, so its not like you're doing something illegal. And it is very possible for your opponent to put themselves in a position where they don't have to be Blazing Conscripted or Hammerquaked or whatever Rachael's power is called (Arrow of Light?)

If anyone is unsportsmanlike I'd say it was Ragnor, because there is nothing your opponent can do about a string of Fury's. Just looking for clarification :-)

[Elcor13]

Oh yeah, and the champs I use least are probably Blagog and Rachael. And i consider using them the least in the sense that I frequently have them in my deck but never play them.

I should probably switch them out if that's going on, heh...

[Quelmotz]

IMO, Dragos, Krung and Gror are least useful. Ragnor isn't really good either (too luck-based really), and Blagog/Elut-Bal are a bit too fragile for their power as well. I guess Phoenix Elves and the Dwarves have the best champions, in spite of Gror being less useful.

[Jexik]

IMO, Dragos, Krung and Gror are least useful. Ragnor isn't really good either (too luck-based really), and Blagog/Elut-Bal are a bit too fragile for their power as well. I guess Phoenix Elves and the Dwarves have the best champions, in spite of Gror being less useful.

Say what?

Gror is extremely good.

[KCU Master 2007]

Pre Thorkur errata I woul have to agree. However, now Grors AOE is huge and worth the 7 magic. It allows him to attack though walls and other units which can be game changing.

[Jexik]

Before the errata, Thorkur was an 11 on a 10 point scale.

But Gror is/was a 9 or 10. He was one of the few cards I'd still summon when going nuts with Thorkur.

Now Thorkur is a 7 or 8, much like Baldar, who might be about .5 higher than Thorkur now.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

keep dropping numbers and I'll ask what is the method used for this ranking!

I'm a bit jaded though, i don't mind people saying things about champions when i know it's wrong :-P
For me right now the champion in the bottom ranking is Rachel.

[prometheuslkr]

If I had to pick a least favorite champion for each faction:
TO: Gruggar
PE: Rahlee
GD: Halvor
CG: Blarf
FK: Elut-Bal
VG:don't have. But Raechel seems to be getting some pretty rave reviews:rolleyes:

[Killer Lawnmower]

If I had to pick a least favorite champion for each faction:
TO: Gruggar
PE: Rahlee
GD: Halvor
CG: Blarf
FK: Elut-Bal
VG:don't have. But Raechel seems to be getting some pretty rave reviews:rolleyes:

I'd have to agree with most of that. Raechel is a definate no for me, but I like Elut-Bal a lot. Dragos would probably be my pick for the Fallen Kingdom. Halvor or Tordok for the dwarves. I just cant seem to get Tordok in when I need him the most...or I dont have enough magic. The Eater isnt my favorite either, but he's still good.

[prometheuslkr]

I think I dislike Elut-Bal just because he's the most fragile of the FK champs. Dragos can life drain, and Skhull has 6 life, but Elut... well, I guess he's just supposed to be the champion you summon to put the thwack on that annoying enemy champion.

[jschild]

Wow, really Elut-Bal? He's perfect for the FK, especially if you get him early. You get to discard your own units, allowing you to resummon them (coupled with legions of the dead to resummon the expensive ones) makes him one of my fav's. The worst thing that can happen to the FK's is to not have any of your own units in the Discard pile and he really helps you load up, plus you can easily summon him for just 1 magic, again making him extremely valuable early on.

However, if you don't get him before mid-game, his value does drop dramatically.

[Dustin]

Sometimes I get bored and make lists such as these. But then I play a complete noob at the game and they show me the potential of each card.

A recent example is Raechel (ironically). My friend who is new to the game used her to dominate my hand full of champions and events.

[Shockma Ranyk]

Let's think.

Blarf: I just don't put him in the deck in the first place.

Krung: Same as above.

Dragos: I like him as a defender of the summoner. For instance, in this set-up...

W__W
__D__
__S__

He kills something directly in front of him, and then I summon something there the next turn. Seems to work pretty well most of the time.

[esper88]

It feels like a lot of my choices for worst champions come down to prejudice. I judge a unit to be bad, I take it out of the deck, and never have a reason to judge them any better. This happened with Gruggar, who I ended up loving when I actually played a few games with him.

Anyway:
TO: Tough choice... Bragg. Getting Cold Snap to be effective can be quite exhausting. Saving Freezes and making sure Bragg isn't killed before they're paid off is too difficult.
PE: Rahlee. Prejudice.
CG: Reeker. Very redundant in my opinion.
GD: Halvor. Prejudice.
FK: Dragos. Prejudice.
VG: Raechel. Prejudice.I've actually never played a game with Raechel. Is that bad?

[iglew]

I like Krung a lot. He's one of my favorites.

I'll generally try to play all my champions if I can. Even the not-as-good ones are still good. If either my opponent or I has a set with Magic Drain, Reinforcements, or Summoning Surge -- ie, pretty much any match-up -- then I'd rather keep my population low and play champions instead of a lot of commons.

The only exception for me is Raechel. She's just awful. I have managed to make her power useful occasionally, but those opportunities are so rare. With only 1 die she's not likely to finish off more than one enemy, and with only 4 life she doesn't live long enough to get another shot. When you do pull a discard it's basically just a one-magic swing, and you don't get enough of them to make up for how horribly overpriced she is. 5 magic for 1 die and 4 life? Ugh.

The only time Raechel is good at all is in the endgame, and even then she's not that good. As far as I'm concerned the Vanguards have only two champions. They've got two crummy events, too.

[Killer Lawnmower]

I have yet to have a good game with:

Bragg, Rahlee, Raechel, Dragos, and Halvor.

Bragg I dont think I have even put into a deck yet, but I am sure I haven't summoned him. I think it is just hard to get him out at the right time.

Dragos is probably about the best of the ones I listed but I'd still rather have someone else.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

i guess I'm alone thinking that Bragg is OP :)

[KCU Master 2007]

i guess I'm alone thinking that Bragg is OP :)

I don't know about OP, but very strong IMO

[sitnam90]

When it comes to my choices, its usally based off of my opponet but I also take into account units I just plain like. Loveguard is an example of that; I know that 1 die isn't super deadly for her cost, but I love the ability and artwork of the card that I find ways to make it useful. I don't think there is a single champ that has never made it to any of my games, just depends on situation as to who I use

[Marroking1]

I have noticed that alot of people don't like Rahlee. She got alot of things going for her. She is good with SotP getting a cheapshot in on a weaker summoner is great. Hit the summoner run back and wait for a another opening. I would gladly pay 4 magic to put 2 wounds on a summoner. She works well in a fire beast build.
Prince Elein-Events
Holleas-Cha.
Laleya-Cha.
Rahlee-Cha
7xFire Beasts-Com.
2xArchers-Com.
1xGuardains-Com.
4xWarriors-Com.
4xFencers-Com.
I have had success with this deck build. All you have to do is dump most of your common and get your Champs out fast then use the magic they get to pay for your Fire Beasts.

[killercactus]

I don't know about OP, but very strong IMO

What happens when you don't get him until late game and you've already used your Freezes? What if they were just gonna ignore Freeze anyway?

I think Bragg is just too situational. I probably also like him less because I like to build Ice Walls as magic unless I can use one to get a reinforce off of immediately.

If you wanna talk about OP, start looking at Gror.

[KCU Master 2007]

Bragg is a support champion so if you get him late game of course he isn't needed. As far as Ice Walls are concerned, I play just about every one of them as I really like the Ice Fortress play style.

[Clarissimus]

Lately I played a game as TO where I put two freezes on my opponent's summoner. He could've burned them off but he was saving for a champion and his summoner was in a safe spot. Next turn I summon Bragg -- ha ha, the look on his face!

[PePe QuiCoSE]

Yeah, what Clarissimus said. Besides he has range which is a really nice thing for an Orc champion. I don't want to hijack the thread, but you also have Hero is born as a second chance to avoid having him in the end of your deck.
From the reinforcements so far the Won't Be Summoned prize goes to Rahlee.

[RoloCookie]

Personally, I fit into the "not a massive fan of Bragg" category.
I get that upping the cost of Freeze is cool, but it's just not quite enough for me. He doesn't fit well into my play style I guess.
For FK, its gotta be Dragos, unlike most I've used him plenty of times, but his consitent failure to impress means I've about run out of patience with him.
For VG, Rachel Loveguard, no surprises there I guess, she's probably my least favourite champion.
For goblins I don't much like Scaag, never used him can't see his appeal much, I'm also a bit scared about using Blaarf, though he's done quite well for me so far.
PE, I don't much care for Kaeseeall, and strangely I don't much like Firedrake, I know that's an odd one, once again, I guess he just doesn't fit my playstyle, I don't find it so easy to save up magic as PE I think.
Dwarves have got to be my favourite deck champ-wise, I love all 6 and use them all on occasion.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

Huh, i also consider Kaeseeall one of the most game breaking champions...

[Shockma Ranyk]

From the reinforcements so far the Won't Be Summoned prize goes to Rahlee.

Definitely. I used her once. She killed a common, then died.

[killercactus]

I've thought about using Rahlee in a Free-Build deck with Archangel and Gror to get at the Summoner with Heroic Feat. But that's about it.

I like all 6 TO champions really, but I think I like Bragg the least.

Dragos is probably the worst FK champion, though I've been thinking about putting him back in since I like playing him for free with Forced Summon, and I think he's better for the FK than Khexhu or Sairook.

Raechel... I actually think her ability is cool, but the other Vanguard champs are way better.

I think Reeker is a bit redundant for the CG.

For the Dwarves, I can't really justify Halvor over the other champs, but I suppose he has his place.

[Sujoah]

I might as well throw my two cents in...

Tundra Orcs - Krung. 8 cost is just too much when you could have Bragg, Ragnor, and Gruggar instead. Also, before I got the reinforcements, he was the only champion I would replace with Khan Queso.

Pheonix Elves - Rahlee. I wouldn't use her unless she only had a cost of 2. I'm not kidding. Laleya, Kaeseeall, Fire Drake, Maelena, and Holleas all see more play than her. Drake doesn't see too much, but that's because I want the champs to all cost 4 or 5 in many of my games, so I can get Spear Grounders out without too much trouble.

Cave Goblins - Blarf tends to get taken out a lot and replaced with Scagg. Krag and Reeker doesn't seem to show up too much either, just because Mook and The Eater are so good, and I like Scagg more.

Guild Dwarves - Tordok and Halvor doesn't show up that often. Tordok I will use with Ballistae, but that's about it. Halvor just doesn't seem justifiable when I can get 3 more attack for one more cost.

Fallen Kingdom - Sairook, Magos, and Malevolence have all shown up to replace Dragos. Anica will be joining them soon. Dragos is just stupid.

Vanguards - I want to like Raechel. I really, really do. It's just hard to justify her cost for her life, though. If she only had a cost of 4 and a life of 5, then I would use her. But Sairook tends to replace her. Jacob, Leah, and Coleen will also be showing up to replace Archangel often, when they are released.

Cloaks - The Admiral, Hawk, and Sin-Sin will probably be showing up about as much as Dagger, Violet, and Scam. If I had to pick one to leave out, it would probably be Scam.

Jungle Elves - Well, obviously I won't know who I can put in (aside from the Mercs) to replace them, but I'm liking all three of these. Shikwa is actually better than I had expected. Miti Mumway does cost a lot, but can wreck havoc, espicially against the Goblins. And Makeinda Ru is just awesome, as long as you can get her in a good spot. Even if you can't, she's still powerful.

EDIT: I really do like Kadara. I actually wouldn't mind taking out Miti Mumway for her, as long as there are a few Elephants to still do some Trampling.

[SuperEsenwein]

I've never used Rahlee, but I don't see how she would do well. Her movement is great, but there's little point in moving a unit that has difficulty destroying the enemy's units. She also doesn't have much life. I would much rather spend those 4 magic points on other units. If she specilized in another area like life, attack, or low summoning cost, then she might be better.

In general, I don't summon high cost units (defined as approxamitely 7+ magic, but that could change depending in my situation). They're just too expensive. While I'm saving up for them, my enemy would be destroying the cards I have on the field. So Krung, Gror, etc. haven't made it out very much in my games.

I also don't summon the cards that have you place magic under them (Reapers and Blarf currently, as far as I know). If they die, my opponent's magic would grow too much for my comfort.

[Sujoah]

In general, I don't summon high cost units (defined as approxamitely 7+ magic, but that could change depending in my situation). They're just too expensive. While I'm saving up for them, my enemy would be destroying the cards I have on the field. So Krung, Gror, etc. haven't made it out very much in my games.

You really should work to get Gror out every game. It can take a bit, but it's well worth it for hurting 4 opposing cards each turn.


I also don't summon the cards that have you place magic under them (Reapers and Blarf currently, as far as I know). If they die, my opponent's magic would grow too much for my comfort.

Reapers can be killed by Dark Sacrifice so you can get your magic back. And Blarf is actually really powerful, you just need to be careful to not let your opponent kill him unless they would have no use for the excess magic (like if they're using TO and don't have any cards left in their hand or draw pile). And you can always kill him yourself if necessary.

[darkbladecb]

They're just too expensive.

With my 200-250 games or whatever on Earth it is I've played now, I feel like I can pretty safely say: they're not. Really. I promise. It might feel like they are, but you're doing yourself a disservice.

Krung is the Strongest One There Is. Krung, Gror, Kalon, Miti, the Drake, etc. are some of the best units in the game and when they hit the table they win games.

[sitnam90]

With my 200-250 games or whatever on Earth it is I've played now, I feel like I can pretty safely say: they're not. Really. I promise. It might feel like they are, but you're doing yourself a disservice.

Krung is the Strongest One There Is. Krung, Gror, Kalon, Miti, the Drake, etc. are some of the best units in the game and when they hit the table they win games.

This. I run common heavy armies and so I tend to rely on cheap champs. But when I'm in a tight spot these type of champs have gotten me outta them. My first game ever was with TO, and the moment I pulled out Krung my fiancee sighed in frustration

[PePe QuiCoSE]

btw, on Rahlee i think she would be fine if she had range. Maybe in the future she will be useful against particular factions...

[prometheuslkr]

I think Rahlee would probably be most useful against 4-life Elien.

[sitnam90]

I think Rahlee would probably be most useful against 4-life Elien.

I think she has her uses, even though she could be a lot better.

I wonder if PHG will release revised versions of Rahlee and Rachel Loveguard. If Rahlee had 2 attacks and Rachel cost 4 (or had 6 health or something) they could be very viable options

[prometheuslkr]

Oh yeah. Throw Rahlee in your deck and Ret-Talus definitely won't risk using both Forced Summons like I usually do with him.

[SuperEsenwein]

You really should work to get Gror out every game. It can take a bit, but it's well worth it for hurting 4 opposing cards each turn.



Reapers can be killed by Dark Sacrifice so you can get your magic back. And Blarf is actually really powerful, you just need to be careful to not let your opponent kill him unless they would have no use for the excess magic (like if they're using TO and don't have any cards left in their hand or draw pile). And you can always kill him yourself if necessary.


With my 200-250 games or whatever on Earth it is I've played now, I feel like I can pretty safely say: they're not. Really. I promise. It might feel like they are, but you're doing yourself a disservice.

Krung is the Strongest One There Is. Krung, Gror, Kalon, Miti, the Drake, etc. are some of the best units in the game and when they hit the table they win games.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but it seems like while I'm saving to get them, the units I had out on the field would be mostly detroyed. Then the champion could be overwhelmed by the opponent's forces. I'm not trying to say that they're not worth the magic; it's just hard to get them out and survive at the same time.

And I forgot that I could destroy my own guys when I posted that about the Reapers and Blarf.

[Sujoah]

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but it seems like while I'm saving to get them, the units I had out on the field would be mostly detroyed. Then the champion could be overwhelmed by the opponent's forces. I'm not trying to say that they're not worth the magic; it's just hard to get them out and survive at the same time.

And I forgot that I could destroy my own guys when I posted that about the Reapers and Blarf.

Don't be scared to ditch an event if you can't use it this turn if it's not that powerful. The only events I tend to hold on to are Heroic Feat, Legions of the Dead, Goblin Invincibility, Freeze, and Summoning Surge. And many of those I'll just play to get out of the way, or just discard. Getting 7 magic shouldn't take too long, but be careful to not let your summoner get overrun by opposing forces.

[Jexik]

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but it seems like while I'm saving to get them, the units I had out on the field would be mostly detroyed. Then the champion could be overwhelmed by the opponent's forces. I'm not trying to say that they're not worth the magic; it's just hard to get them out and survive at the same time.

And I forgot that I could destroy my own guys when I posted that about the Reapers and Blarf.

One of the side effects of a high build magic rate is that it increases your card flow. This means that you'll see your events and walls more quickly, which will give you some "free" stuff to increase the effectiveness of your turns.

Many commons and a lot of Champions are melee. This means that it's pretty easy for most Summoners to run away for a couple turns before they really need to counter attack- two turns of building 3-4 cards as Magic means that you can summon whatever Champion you happen to draw. If your opponent overextends himself to get one or two wounds on your Summoner, that's a good thing. Most of the expensive champions like Gror and Fire Drake can be rather good in the early game; their presence will force your opponent into a reactive panic mode that should play into your favor.

Knowing your own deck and your opponent's playing style is important to learning how to taper your build magic rate off, and when.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

Gror can't be overwhelmed by enemy forces.
Actually, you hope they try when he comes on board!

edit: Rahlee should have Range and Raechel cost 4, that would be enough for them IMO.

[Clarissimus]

Gror can't be overwhelmed by enemy forces.
Actually, you hope they try when he comes on board!

I used to agree but when one loses him to Goblin Horde Attack before you can do much damage one starts to think differently.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

After Gror hits the table there should be nothing left around!

[Sera Eldwyn's boyfriend]

Gror can easily be overwhelmed, the PE and the CG are just two examples of factions that can do it.

The Champions that I always dump are: Raechel, Krung, The Eater, Dragos, Kaeseaol, and it can be a toss up for the dwarves.

[sitnam90]

I used to agree but when one loses him to Goblin Horde Attack before you can do much damage one starts to think differently.

It'll pretty much take out any champion if you get enough units in place. But it's all about dice roles. Gror is still plently powerful even if he has just one wound; if he barely survives being swarmed he could take his attackers next turn.

[darkbladecb]

Gror can easily be overwhelmed, the PE and the CG are just two examples of factions that can do it.

The Cave Goblins? Sure. That's the design of their deck: reactionary swarming of Champions.

The Phoenix Elves, though? So to get a guaranteed kill on Gror in one turn would require, say, Maelena, the Drake, two Spirit of the Phoenixs, and a Guardian. That's, adding the +1 for build cost, 6, 8, 1, 1, 3. So you're using 19 Magic worth of cards to kill Gror.

If you're using just two Warriors and Maelena, that's still 10 Magic to MAYBE kill Gror.

That's an enormous amount of resources and, of course, Gror has the excellent capacity of getting back at least half of his opportunity Magic cost just in the first turn of his being played.

I feel like of course the Cave Goblins are a good counter to heavy Champion drops, because at the end of the day that's the number one thing the Cave Goblins do. So, obviously, as the Guild Dwarf player I am going to be extremely wary of the potential the Cave Goblins have for doing so and I'm not going to play him UNTIL he can do something.

[Elcor13]

Gror can easily be overwhelmed, the PE and the CG are just two examples of factions that can do it.

The Champions that I always dump are: Raechel, Krung, The Eater, Dragos, Kaeseaol, and it can be a toss up for the dwarves.

Why you drop Krung?!?! Krung is the strongest one there is!!! You make Krung sad. And sadness leads to anger. You won't like Krung when he's angry...

[killercactus]

The Cave Goblins? Sure. That's the design of their deck: reactionary swarming of Champions.

The Phoenix Elves, though? So to get a guaranteed kill on Gror in one turn would require, say, Maelena, the Drake, two Spirit of the Phoenixs, and a Guardian. That's, adding the +1 for build cost, 6, 8, 1, 1, 3. So you're using 19 Magic worth of cards to kill Gror.

If you're using just two Warriors and Maelena, that's still 10 Magic to MAYBE kill Gror.

That's an enormous amount of resources and, of course, Gror has the excellent capacity of getting back at least half of his opportunity Magic cost just in the first turn of his being played.

I feel like of course the Cave Goblins are a good counter to heavy Champion drops, because at the end of the day that's the number one thing the Cave Goblins do. So, obviously, as the Guild Dwarf player I am going to be extremely wary of the potential the Cave Goblins have for doing so and I'm not going to play him UNTIL he can do something.

Gror can still do plenty well against Cave Goblins.

Like darkbladecb said - if you drop him when there are already a bunch of Goblins out, he's probably gonna kill 3-4 off the rip and give you a pile of magic back. If he does survive the first swarm, he probably kills 3-4 more. That just happened to me the other day, and it sucked.

Gror is super-awesome. Easily the best champ in the game IMO.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

Elves are the best champion killers, better than the Goblins. You get a Champion out as soon as possible and hold on to Spirits and burns. Then you just Spirit Elien and a champion and deal enough wounds. While it's an investment, it's one you do that wins you the game without chance of failure (unlike the Goblins). Kaeseeall is the worse champion for this since she can just put herself to be hit by the melee champion and then move that champion when in the exact place where you can kill it without rolling dice. With careful play Elves can do this to all 3 champions the opponent might get. That's why i insist that FK and VG have no chance against the PE with the standard decks. The FK do have better chances if they get a super rush going on and keep it up, but the VG can just keep looking at Kalon getting 1 turn killed over and over.

Anyway, with the standard deck i agree that building Krung is a fine strategy for resource management, even with how much i loath Blagog. Krung is better suited if you switch Khan in for Blagog.

[Elcor13]

Elves are the best champion killers, better than the Goblins. You get a Champion out as soon as possible and hold on to Spirits and burns. Then you just Spirit Elien and a champion and deal enough wounds. While it's an investment, it's one you do that wins you the game without chance of failure (unlike the Goblins). Kaeseeall is the worse champion for this since she can just put herself to be hit by the melee champion and then move that champion when in the exact place where you can kill it without rolling dice. With careful play Elves can do this to all 3 champions the opponent might get. That's why i insist that FK and VG have no chance against the PE with the standard decks. The FK do have better chances if they get a super rush going on and keep it up, but the VG can just keep looking at Kalon getting 1 turn killed over and over.

Anyway, with the standard deck i agree that building Krung is a fine strategy for resource management, even with how much i loath Blagog. Krung is better suited if you switch Khan in for Blagog.

Aside from the fact that I disagree with you that the FK and VG have no chance versus the PE (well, the VG have a chance at least...) you really don't need to drop Krung, because it is very possible to get him and another champ or even two out. Just don't play as many commons.

Also winning with the Phoenix Elves like that is just boring. Where's the fun? Where are the epic dice rolls to see if you've won the game or flopped or not?!?

[killercactus]

Aside from the fact that I disagree with you that the FK and VG have no chance versus the PE (well, the VG have a chance at least...) you really don't need to drop Krung, because it is very possible to get him and another champ or even two out. Just don't play as many commons.

Especially with Reinforcements, and the number of 1-cost commons in the standard deck. If you build most of the Fighters and try to Reinforce out the Smashers, it's not really tough at all to get Krung down, let alone Ragnor and Blagog.

I actually like Ragnor/Rukar/Krung for the TO, and I've seen all 3 of them on the board AT THE SAME TIME against the FK, who were playing magic denial with Skeletal Archers and Champions.

It's all about building magic at the right times.

[sitnam90]

Also winning with the Phoenix Elves like that is just boring. Where's the fun? Where are the epic dice rolls to see if you've won the game or flopped or not?!?

I've always though that's what the PE were all about personally. Precise, surgical strikes with little in the way of chance involved. That's why their my GF's favorite: she doesn't have to rely on die roles to win.

[killercactus]

Also winning with the Phoenix Elves like that is just boring. Where's the fun? Where are the epic dice rolls to see if you've won the game or flopped or not?!?

The fun is in using strategy and planning to setup the enemy. That (and deck-building) are my favorite parts of this game, which is probably why the PE are my favorite faction to play.

I also like to go 10x Warrior, 5x Fire Beast, and then play ranged champions, which I guess sounds a bit boring. Maybe I'm just a boring player. :p

[PePe QuiCoSE]

...you really don't need to drop Krung, because it is very possible to get him and another champ or even two out. Just don't play as many commons.
I didn't said you "need" to.


Especially with Reinforcements, and the number of 1-cost commons in the standard deck. If you build most of the Fighters and try to Reinforce out the Smashers, it's not really tough at all to get Krung down, let alone Ragnor and Blagog.Ok, i find this interesting. With no Magic from the opponent, the 3 champions are 19 magic + 3 cards, 22 cards total. If you played Reinforcements twice you got 6 cards less for a total of 28 (25 if you only played it once). That leaves you with 6/9 cards left which 1 is Grognack and 1 the starting wall, 4/7. You also have the 4 starting common which completes your deck or leaves 3 cards left, assuming you didn't butcher them (which i would). That means you either don't play any walls if you play your Freezes. So my point with this is that you are in a very tight for Magic and you are giving up tactical chances (like playing [Ice]Walls for pressure) and get screwed if you draw all you champions early. Again, is a fine strategy but not one i would be relying on considering is not that hard to kill a 5 life champion when there is no other threat in sight.


Also winning with the Phoenix Elves like that is just boring. Where's the fun? Where are the epic dice rolls to see if you've won the game or flopped or not?!?Trivia Fact: winning is usually more fun than losing.

[Clarissimus]

With no Magic from the opponent

That's a pretty poor assumption. Unless you're playing the FK and they summon nothing but Skeletal Archers :p

Okay I admit it's rare for me to get all 3 champions out in a game. But how many times have you come to the end of your deck, had a huge magic pile, and nothing to summon? You really start to kick yourself for building a champion as magic earlier in the game.

And sure, Krung, is super expensive. But if you get him out of the board, he's also really really tough to take down.

And think about this -- if you summon 8 magic worth of commons, your opponent is going to get 5 or 6 magic for killing them. When you summon Krung and your opponent kill him, he gets only 1 magic. That's a huge advantage of champions over commons that shouldn't be disregarded.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

That's a pretty poor assumption. Unless you're playing the FK and they summon nothing but Skeletal Archers :p
I was answering this post, which one line was:

I actually like Ragnor/Rukar/Krung for the TO, and I've seen all 3 of them on the board AT THE SAME TIME against the FK, who were playing magic denial with Skeletal Archers and Champions.

[killercactus]

I didn't said you "need" to.

Ok, i find this interesting. With no Magic from the opponent, the 3 champions are 19 magic + 3 cards, 22 cards total. If you played Reinforcements twice you got 6 cards less for a total of 28 (25 if you only played it once). That leaves you with 6/9 cards left which 1 is Grognack and 1 the starting wall, 4/7. You also have the 4 starting common which completes your deck or leaves 3 cards left, assuming you didn't butcher them (which i would). That means you either don't play any walls if you play your Freezes. So my point with this is that you are in a very tight for Magic and you are giving up tactical chances (like playing [Ice]Walls for pressure) and get screwed if you draw all you champions early. Again, is a fine strategy but not one i would be relying on considering is not that hard to kill a 5 life champion when there is no other threat in sight.


I don't think that's a strategy that should be used every game, but it can happen.

In that particular game, the Orcs didn't get 0 magic from the FK, but they got very little. Probably 2/3 from Vermin, maybe 2 from Zombies, 2 from Skeletons that failed Magic Locked, 1 from the starting Reaper, and I think he killed Elut-Bal. On top of that, he built all 3 Ice Walls as magic, and only played one Freeze. It's not always the right play to build Ice Walls and Freezes, but I think here it was.

I think he had a bit of extra magic also.

[Jexik]

I get all three TO champions out in just about every game I play with them.

Sometimes that means killing your own commons or building Ice Walls as Magic.

It's usually factions without CUEs that I have trouble getting all 3 out, unless they're called Jungle Elves. The Vanguards too, just because SS can be slow to get working, and their stock champions are fairly expensive for their output.

[Elcor13]

I didn't said you "need" to.

Ok, i find this interesting. With no Magic from the opponent, the 3 champions are 19 magic + 3 cards, 22 cards total. If you played Reinforcements twice you got 6 cards less for a total of 28 (25 if you only played it once). That leaves you with 6/9 cards left which 1 is Grognack and 1 the starting wall, 4/7. You also have the 4 starting common which completes your deck or leaves 3 cards left, assuming you didn't butcher them (which i would). That means you either don't play any walls if you play your Freezes. So my point with this is that you are in a very tight for Magic and you are giving up tactical chances (like playing [Ice]Walls for pressure) and get screwed if you draw all you champions early. Again, is a fine strategy but not one i would be relying on considering is not that hard to kill a 5 life champion when there is no other threat in sight.

Trivia Fact: winning is usually more fun than losing.

Yeah you didn't say you needed to...but you did imply that it was better to drop Krung for magic than to keep him and play him. All I'm saying is that, unless it is the end game and you're trying to get out another champ, and by end game I mean you're decked and on the ropes, there are few reasons to drop Krung. Magic is not one of them.

Basically I'm not a fan of the mindset that you should drop a great card like Krung because you don't think you can get the magic for him. If you don't want to play him because you have a different strategy, that's one thing. But if you drop him when you don't want to when you need more magic...that's something else entirely.

And sure, winning is usually more fun than losing, but how you win is important too. I have more fun when there is an element of suspense in how the game is going. The PE take that suspense away. Hence I find them boring. And since its possible to win with other factions, there's not really a need to take away that suspense. I'm not saying that I want everything to be completely luck (winning because Ragnor furied 5 times in a row and killed 2 of your opponents champs isn't as fun as it sounds, b/c you didn't actually do anything, you just go lucky.) But that doesn't mean that I don't want luck involved. That's what makes this game fun for me. The fact that there is an element of surprise, but I can also use strategy. Even the best strategy can be undone by luck, and even the luckiest rolls can be undone by good strategy. I'm not trying to put down the people who go after the Phoenix Elves, even if it appears that way, because I know how scary the PE can be. It just isn't for me.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

In that particular game, the Orcs didn't get 0 magic from the FK, but they got very little. Probably 2/3 from Vermin, maybe 2 from Zombies, 2 from Skeletons that failed Magic Locked, 1 from the starting Reaper, and I think he killed Elut-Bal.Ha! 6-7 Magic is not Magic denial

Anyway, i have made enough OT in this thread, will start one later for this kind of thing.

[Sujoah]

Ha! 6-7 Magic is not Magic denial

Anyway, i have made enough OT in this thread, will start one later for this kind of thing.

If a FK deck with 10 Skeletal ARchers isn't a Magic Denial deck, than what is? Unless you're in free build, it's pretty much the best one there is.

[killercactus]

Ha! 6-7 Magic is not Magic denial

Anyway, i have made enough OT in this thread, will start one later for this kind of thing.

I think all I summoned apart from archers and champs is 2 Vermin and maybe one Zombie. I might've even killed my own Reaper - I can't remember.

[Sauam]

I feel Krung never really gets play, not only because he cost so much, is that he is slow and clunky, also his ability is kinda meh

[Elcor13]

I feel Krung never really gets play, not only because he cost so much, is that he is slow and clunky, also his ability is kinda meh

He's not slower or clunkier than any other champion aside from the Archangel...

[Sauam]

He's not slower or clunkier than any other champion aside from the Archangel...

I am comparing to Fighter, Ragnor and Chargers. Krung is slower and clunkier

When we play TO, it play the fast up in the face style, we usually get to the enemy base very quick in an instant with fury and such

Once you compare, Krung is slow and clunky, once he is out, unit just run away from him and Kring gets range to death, also his ability is non-existence once you play catch up with your opp -___-

The more I play with TO, the more I feel Krung is actually a defensive unit where the rest I mention above is offensive where they can tag along the summoner for the rush

[Sera Eldwyn's boyfriend]

I never considered Krung to be a defensive unit, all you have to do is look at his ability and his attack to counter that thought. Granted I'll give you that Krung is far slower than most of the other TOs in comparison, but he is more of a deal a final blow unit to me so......

[I LIKE TAU!]

I think Krung is the guy you summon as far up as possible and quickly corner the summoner. This tactic doesn't work against CG, so I would try to duke it out with any champions if they are out. Otherwise, I wouldn't bring him out. I don't have him, so this is all theoretical.

[Elcor13]

The only unit I will actually give you as him being "slower" than are chargers. Fighters and Ragnor rely on fury too much. Besides, if you have walls up close to your opponents side he can be deep in enemy territory in his first turn out. He is NOT a defensive unit, he's a go up and smack stuff in the face card, and then wait for them to surround him and go wild swing.

If they're not coming to you then attack their walls and make them come to you. Besides, if things are running away it means they're out of range and can't shoot you. If they CAN shoot you then you can go up and smack them.

[prometheuslkr]

If they're not coming to you then attack their walls and make them come to you. Besides, if things are running away it means they're out of range and can't shoot you. If they CAN shoot you then you can go up and smack them.

And that's where the PE archers come in.

[darkbladecb]

And that's where the PE archers come in.

How? Their side of the board is only 4 squares long. They'll only be able to shoot him for one turn before he catches up. Krung can deal with 2 wounds.

[Sauam]

The only unit I will actually give you as him being "slower" than are chargers. Fighters and Ragnor rely on fury too much. Besides, if you have walls up close to your opponents side he can be deep in enemy territory in his first turn out. He is NOT a defensive unit, he's a go up and smack stuff in the face card, and then wait for them to surround him and go wild swing.

If they're not coming to you then attack their walls and make them come to you. Besides, if things are running away it means they're out of range and can't shoot you. If they CAN shoot you then you can go up and smack them.

But you cannot just dismiss both fury unit, they are indeed 33% faster than Krung, then another 33% of that and so on. Relying on ability or not, it is still activated everytime

Yes it is also true Krung can smack those who dares to shoot at him, however once Krung go chasing those shooter, his ability render useless since now he is just one big clunky 3 attack unit, his ability is only good where melee unit gets to him, not when he is being shoot from afar and need to play catch-up... that is what I meant by clunky ability where a smart player will use that to "kite" him around like a puppy

With that being said, Krung obviously work best in the crowd, hence why I said he is much more useful when you are behind and getting surrounded, then pop a Krung and watch everyone runs away or get swing attacked, thats why I said he is much more defensive than offensive, many game he worked best as rescue card than "go-for-the-win" card

[SuperEsenwein]

How? Their side of the board is only 4 squares long. They'll only be able to shoot him for one turn before he catches up. Krung can deal with 2 wounds.
The PE archers have far shot, which lets them attack 4 spaces away. Because of this, each archer can attack a melee unit twice before they can attack the archer.

Edit: Nevermind. I just realized, the situation for this is when the archers couldn't be 4 spaces away, only three.

For the Krung dicussion, I think Krung isn't slow at all. Its just that Fighers, Ragnor, and Chargers are extra fast units. The rest of the TO are the same speed as Krung. He is also intimidating. I faced Krung once, and I was worried at first. He has more life than any other unit, he can attack multiple people, and his attack is powerful. I ended up sending Baldar over to him to kill him, and it eventually worked. Krung wasn't able to roll three hits before Baldar finished him, and Krung was chasing Oldin anyways. Krung is very useful sometimes, but there are situations he isn't good in.

[Elcor13]

But you cannot just dismiss both fury unit, they are indeed 33% faster than Krung, then another 33% of that and so on. Replying on ability or not, it is still activated everytime

Yes it is also true Krung can smack those who dares to shoot at him, however once Krung go chasing those shooter, his ability render useless since now he is just one big clunky 3 attack unit, his ability is only good where melee unit gets to him, not when he is being shoot from afar and need to play catch-up... that is what I meant by clunky ability where a smart player will use that to "kite" him around like a puppy

With that being said, Krung obviously work best in the crowd, hence why I said he is much more useful when you are behind and getting surrounded, then pop a Krung and watch everyone runs away or get swing attacked, thats why I said he is much more defensive than offensive, many game he worked best as rescue card than "go-for-the-win" card

If you're going on speed based on Fury, then Fighters and Ragnor are faster then units with rider, since theoretically they could never stop moving. And sure, every now and then you'll get a multi-fury run where you just go down the board killing everything (I think my record is something like 9 furies with 7 wounds being done in one turn) but its not like every time you bring out Ragnor and Fighters they're going to make it to the other side of the board. Saying Krung is slow compared to them is like saying a car is slow compared to a fighter jet >_< Sure, its slow in comparison, but most people aren't really going to go faster than 80mph anyway.

And as for the kiting, I mean, like I said, just don't chase. Stay at a wall and just pound on it. Make them come to you. Worst case scenario you get free hits on a wall.

And I disagree (obviously) that he's not a "go for the win" card. Much like you said you center your push around Grognak, center your push around Krung instead, or even both of them. He's like a tank, spearheading the way. Sure, he's great when there are a lot of people around him, but that doesn't mean that he can't focus on one person as well.

[Butterball96]

I think Krung is great out of the starting factions. I have played roughly 10 to 15 games and I always try to play him when I am the TOs even though I find it hard sometimes to get the magic for him. Out of the games I have played it seems the champion we least play is Mook. He just doesn't seem to be that helpful in the long run as I find that Blarf is much more potent with the magic than paying the cost for Mook. With only 2 attack he seems the weakest out of the CG champs. I will also always choose the Eater over Mook anyways because in every game I summon so many commons that even if there are no other units to kill the Eater will still be alive...with his 3 attack. ;)

[Elcor13]

I think Krung is great out of the starting factions. I have played roughly 10 to 15 games and I always try to play him when I am the TOs even though I find it hard sometimes to get the magic for him. Out of the games I have played it seems the champion we least play is Mook. He just doesn't seem to be that helpful in the long run as I find that Blarf is much more potent with the magic than paying the cost for Mook. With only 2 attack he seems the weakest out of the CG champs. I will also always choose the Eater over Mook anyways because in every game I summon so many commons that even if there are no other units to kill the Eater will still be alive...with his 3 attack. ;)

The thing about Mook is his power though. If you have 3 commons attacking, fighters and berserkers will hit on 83% of their attacks, and Slingers will hit on 66% of your attacks. This really adds up when you have a ton of attacks with Goblin Horde Attack and/or Goblin Rage.

For instance, say you have 3 commons surrounding a unit or wall, and you've played GHA and GR (i realize this is hard to do but when you get it...)

You already are going to get at least 18 attacks (if each unit is a fighter or slinger then that's 3 attack each because of GHA, and then another 3 because of Rage.) When you add Mook to that, statistically you're probably going to hit on at least 12 of those, even more if you have fighters (fighters *SHOULD* hit on 5 for 6, two fighters = 10 hits.)

So yeah, Mook himself doesn't provide as much potential as Blarf or the Eater, but his ability cannot be equaled.

[sitnam90]

I think Krung is great out of the starting factions. I have played roughly 10 to 15 games and I always try to play him when I am the TOs even though I find it hard sometimes to get the magic for him. Out of the games I have played it seems the champion we least play is Mook. He just doesn't seem to be that helpful in the long run as I find that Blarf is much more potent with the magic than paying the cost for Mook. With only 2 attack he seems the weakest out of the CG champs. I will also always choose the Eater over Mook anyways because in every game I summon so many commons that even if there are no other units to kill the Eater will still be alive...with his 3 attack. ;)

Man I couldn't disagree more. He has a ton of health for a CG and his ability works wonders with zero point swarms. Blarf is powerful, but giving those extra points to an opponenent is too much of a weakness imo. And the Eater is good in certain situations, but his ability can be a cruse at times as well.

[Sauam]

I slowly start to see no use for Raechel Loveguard as well

it is just too expensive for something that even lack in compare to Stalwart Archer :(

5 for a 1/4 that rarely see her ability take off since it only has 1 attack

[SuperEsenwein]

I slowly start to see no use for Raechel Loveguard as well

it is just too expensive for something that even lack in compare to Stalwart Archer :(

5 for a 1/4 that rarely see her ability take off since it only has 1 attack
So Raechel is an 'it' now? ;)

Yeah, Raechel really isn't worth it. If she had more attack or was cheaper, she would be better, but we'll just have to replace her with a Merc or someone from the expantion.

Blarf is powerful, but giving those extra points to an opponenent is too much of a weakness imo.
Remember that you can try to kill Blarf yourself, and then you get all that magic. This is probably difficult, since you can't predict when he will die. But you could also put only 2 cards under him; that would let him have decent attack, and your opponent wouldn't get all 5 posssible magic; they'd only get 3. I'm not an expert with Blarf, and I haven't used him yet, but he seems to have some potential. Of course, other champions are still better IMO.

[sitnam90]

Remember that you can try to kill Blarf yourself, and then you get all that magic. This is probably difficult, since you can't predict when he will die. But you could also put only 2 cards under him; that would let him have decent attack, and your opponent wouldn't get all 5 posssible magic; they'd only get 3. I'm not an expert with Blarf, and I haven't used him yet, but he seems to have some potential. Of course, other champions are still better IMO.

That's risky though, and I'd prefer not to run the risk of giving my opponent multiple magic. Its hard to control what amount of wounds an opponent could put out. A greater burn, burn, and one prince elien fire blast and you have just given your opponent atleast 2 cards. He has uses, any champion that cheap/potentially powerful does. I just prefer not running that risk, especially when Mook has more health and a far reaching ability.

[KCU Master 2007]

The trick to Blarf is to not build his attack until you know for a fact that you'll be able to get one or two big attacks in on something important (such as a summoner or big champion). Position him in such a way that you can move him forward to attack your opponent's summoner, then put your four magic under him to boost his attack all the way up. With any luck, you're opponent would have ignored Blarf for the time being and he'll still have all his health allowing you to get a second attack in (hopefully).

This almost always results in Blarfs immediate death if you fail to kill the summoner, but 8 dice is going to put a hurting on any of the Summoners to date.

I really like Blarf as it gives the Goblins that heavy hitter they really need. The Eater also fills this role well but its good to have a back up.

[sitnam90]

The trick to Blarf is to not build his attack until you know for a fact that you'll be able to get one or two big attacks in on something important (such as a summoner or big champion). Position him in such a way that you can move him forward to attack your opponent's summoner, then put your four magic under him to boost his attack all the way up. With any luck, you're opponent would have ignored Blarf for the time being and he'll still have all his health allowing you to get a second attack in (hopefully).

.

That is a good tactic, but not something that could work against a regularly played opponent IMO. Plus even with just one attack he is giving 2 magic which is quite a target for opponents. If it succeeds if has the possibility of winning the game, but I think the next game your opponent would figure not to let you get here anywhere near your summoner.

[Sauam]

Just play a few more game with Raechel, I would say she is really great for taking down those pesky 1 health common but too bad there usually aint much on the board by the time she arrives

I would say her best match up is against CG, it punish your opp for spamming too much of those 0 cost goblins, on top it forces them to discard those critical event that they are holding. Raechel is almost too perfect for CG match up

aside from that though, she rarely come to use but I do see her purpose. Just wish she has at least 1 more health or attack, it'll make pulling off her ability easier