Force Replacement Game

[sitnam90]

Lets play a simple game: take a popularized fantasy battle (from LOTR, Harry Potter, Song of Ice and Fire, Warcraft, etc) and replace one of the forces with a summoner wars factions. Alternatively, pick a army from a fantasy universe (Grey Wardens from Dragon Age, Uruk-Kai, Rohirrim, etc) and match them up in a scenario against a SW force.

I'll start it off: the armies of Saruman march toward Helms Deep, ready to topple the Rohan. They arrive at the city, and the defenders are noithing like what they expected. 300 Phoenix Elves, with Prince Elien, stand ontop the walls of Helms Deep. How do the PE fare, and what will it take for them to win this battle.

Note that the PE army is composed of whatever you want. You simply need to state what the force is made up of before giving your prediction of the battle. Prince Elien cannot summon, but he may use his event card abilities such as burn and SOTP. Limit of 3 champions, and maximum of 10 fire beasts are allowed.

[esper88]

Wait, are we supposed to guess who will win or name the reference or what? I'm not really clear on what your last paragraph means.

Gror looked at Halvor. "We have to get Oldin. We have to face the Cloaks."

Halvor was astonished. "But... no one's ever done anything like this before."

"That's why it will work."

The Engineer looked over. "I can get you guys whatever you need. What'll it be."

Gror looked straight at the Engineer. "Hammers. Lots of hammers."

[Shockma Ranyk]

Elien: Holleas, I am your father...

[Schulzy]

Pheonix Elves vs. Blood Elves from World of Warcraft. 'Nuff said.

[sitnam90]

Wait, are we supposed to guess who will win or name the reference or what? I'm not really clear on what your last paragraph means.


More like how you see the battle playing out between those involved in the scenario. I made a limit to champs and fire beasts to make it a bit more competitive, and Elien is restricted to the fellow phoenix eleves already defending the walls

[Tisroero]

For them to win? Nothing short of a miracle. Are we talking 300 PE only? Or are they supporting the 2.5k soldiers already stationed in Helm's Deep?

Supporting the humans they would actually put up a decent fight, maybe even destroy all the explosives and war machines since the magick users can launch fire at em.

The archers would do great with their powerful bows, and the melee types... not so much. Uruk-Hai were kinda ridiculous on that end.

[jsmkd]

Ok I would use Fire Drake, Maelena, and Laleya. with 99 Archers, 99 Warriors, 49 guardians, and 50 fencers.

Fire Drake to take out the Battering Ram and Laleya to fire at the bombs and ladders. Then have archers rain done on the Urnk-Hai. Then rush them with warriors when they fall back. They push at the warriors have them fly back to the wall and start over with the archers. We they take the wall that is when Maelena leads the attack with the Guardians and fencers. With Elian burning them.

[gamjuven]

I would just use my Guild Dwarves and play besiege the walls. Some engineers and ballistas would seal the deal, and those puny elves (and Rohan humans) would be reduced to the dust from whence they came. Magic drain for Gandalf.

[sitnam90]

For them to win? Nothing short of a miracle. Are we talking 300 PE only? Or are they supporting the 2.5k soldiers already stationed in Helm's Deep?

Supporting the humans they would actually put up a decent fight, maybe even destroy all the explosives and war machines since the magick users can launch fire at em.

The archers would do great with their powerful bows, and the melee types... not so much. Uruk-Hai were kinda ridiculous on that end.

For some odd reason I thouyght only 300 rohirrim defended Helms Deep. Only 300 PE seems quite small now zin comparison, however I do think those three hundred would kill quite a few orcs. With about 100 archers, 10 fire beasts, 100 warriors, and 86 guardians, the PE would be far more professional and deadly in my opinion then the average warrior of Rohan. With Elien, Fire Drake, Laleya, and Malaena reinforcing weak parts in the line, the PE have a strong force. Their number s would be far to small to hold the walls securely. Their best chance to beat the orcs or atleast wait for gandalf would be prolonged hit and runs attacks. Have the archers thin out the numbers before they reach the wall, and then gradually pull them back. Use warriors to slow down orcs in the courtyard with their speed, with the archers prociding any covering fire. Elien and his cadre of guardians should be the last line of defence, holding a chokepoint to keep the orcs bottled up. They'll kill many, but the lack of numbers will be their undoing.

But if it was 2500 PE, I honestly predict a slaughter. Long range archers, speedy offensive melee troops, well armored and precise defensive troops. Not to include 3 very capable champions and a summoner with some nasty offensive power

[Tisroero]

For some odd reason I thouyght only 300 rohirrim defended Helms Deep. Only 300 PE seems quite small now zin comparison, however I do think those three hundred would kill quite a few orcs. With about 100 archers, 10 fire beasts, 100 warriors, and 86 guardians, the PE would be far more professional and deadly in my opinion then the average warrior of Rohan. With Elien, Fire Drake, Laleya, and Malaena reinforcing weak parts in the line, the PE have a strong force. Their number s would be far to small to hold the walls securely. Their best chance to beat the orcs or atleast wait for gandalf would be prolonged hit and runs attacks. Have the archers thin out the numbers before they reach the wall, and then gradually pull them back. Use warriors to slow down orcs in the courtyard with their speed, with the archers prociding any covering fire. Elien and his cadre of guardians should be the last line of defence, holding a chokepoint to keep the orcs bottled up. They'll kill many, but the lack of numbers will be their undoing.

But if it was 2500 PE, I honestly predict a slaughter. Long range archers, speedy offensive melee troops, well armored and precise defensive troops. Not to include 3 very capable champions and a summoner with some nasty offensive power

In the movie they made them completely outnumbered. It wasn't much better odds in the book, but they weren't only a couple hundred of them. Hell, the elves sure weren't there either.

If I recall correctly, Theoden was gonna meet them head on, got sidetracked, and linked up his army with a garrison already in Helm's Deep. If the phoenix elves have the same number advantage, they should be able to do what happened in the book anyways, possibly(probably) better due to what I said earlier, with the magick casting and all.

[prometheuslkr]

For them to win? Nothing short of a miracle. Are we talking 300 PE only? Or are they supporting the 2.5k soldiers already stationed in Helm's Deep?

Supporting the humans they would actually put up a decent fight, maybe even destroy all the explosives and war machines since the magick users can launch fire at em.

The archers would do great with their powerful bows, and the melee types... not so much. Uruk-Hai were kinda ridiculous on that end.

There were only 300 soldiers in helm's deep.

[Tisroero]

There were only 300 soldiers in helm's deep.

Only in the movies.

[Tisroero]

How about this? The Saxons are replaced by the Vanguard during the battle against the duke of Normandy. 10% of the "Saxon" force is replaced by Cavalry Knights.

Does William actually lose the battle instead of win?

[sitnam90]

I think the Vangaurds take it easy. Guardian Knights, Stalwart Archers, and Cavalry Knights seem to wear plate armor if we can trust the card art, while the Anglo-Saxons/Normans during the Battle of Hastings had mail armor. I think Stalwarts would be the decisive factor in this battle, as their heavy armor would allow them to absorb return fire far better from the Norman forces. Norman cavlary charges may be a problem, given the lack of spearman in the Vanguard army, but countercharging with Cavalry Knights would be an effective answer. I think Angels would be a huge benefit for the Vanguard. Being able to fly over enemy forces and pick targets of opportunity is a huge advantage.

[Tisroero]

Oh crap, angels... forgot about them.

[Sera Eldwyn's boyfriend]

I think the Vangaurds take it easy. Guardian Knights, Stalwart Archers, and Cavalry Knights seem to wear plate armor if we can trust the card art, while the Anglo-Saxons/Normans during the Battle of Hastings had mail armor. I think Stalwarts would be the decisive factor in this battle, as their heavy armor would allow them to absorb return fire far better from the Norman forces. Norman cavlary charges may be a problem, given the lack of spearman in the Vanguard army, but countercharging with Cavalry Knights would be an effective answer. I think Angels would be a huge benefit for the Vanguard. Being able to fly over enemy forces and pick targets of opportunity is a huge advantage.

The archers could take down the cavalry charge to. Nothing was more devastating to a cavalry charge than a volley of arrows.

[sitnam90]

The archers could take down the cavalry charge to. Nothing was more devastating to a cavalry charge than a volley of arrows.

I'd disagree there. A block of spears or pikes were impossible for heavy cavalry to counter in a head on charge. There are examples of archers defeating cavalry, such as Agincourt. But the swiftness of cavalry meant they could quickly close the distance and shorten the time they were in arrow range

[Tisroero]

Plus it was crossbows, not standard bow weapons which first began to pose a real threat to armored cavalry.

[sitnam90]

Plus it was crossbows, not standard bow weapons which first began to pose a real threat to armored cavalry.
Very true. We need a crossbow unit in SW, one of my favorite pre-gunpowder weapons, right next to the sling, the javelin, the mace, and poleaerms of any sort. But what really did in the heavily armored knight was the invention and perfection of gunpowder. Even then, it wasn't till automatic weapons that cavalry charges were completely obsolete, as gunpowder made armor irrelevant, not the need for swift cavalry charges. In -fact, cavalry was one of the reasons bayonets were invented

Here is a fun one for Dragon Age fans: during the battle of Denerim, the Ferelden army arrives to find not Darkspan, but the armies of the Fallen Kingdom. The Archdemon is leading them, but Ret is second in command. Does the Grey Warden still come out victorious, or do the undead take the day? Let's say the FK army is the same size as the Darkspawn army was and all 7 champs are present.

[Tisroero]

How about a crossbow unit with the pavaise? Reduce the range to two clear spaces and increase the defense of the unit to 5 unless the attacking unit is closer to the controlling players back row(opposite Dagger kinda thing)?

[jsmkd]

The FK only have 4 champs. But they would still win.

[chardris77]

Not only would the FK trounce the wardens, the Archdemon would soon become the 5th FK champ after Ret-Talus singlehandedly killed and raised him.

[sitnam90]

Lol. Here's another force replacement idea: which current Champion would best be able to run the Dungeon Run gauntlet and capture the summoning stone. For sake of fairness, no beast champions are allowed, including the Archangel, Krung, etc.

On first glance I'd say Holleas. A swarm of fire beasts would give her a big advantage

[prometheuslkr]

Lol. Here's another force replacement idea: which current Champion would best be able to run the Dungeon Run gauntlet and capture the summoning stone. For sake of fairness, no beast champions are allowed, including the Archangel, Krung, etc.

On first glance I'd say Holleas. A swarm of fire beasts would give her a big advantage

Thorkur's ability to use his magic rating to save his life would be nice.